The Posture of belief in God.

[mickiel]

Many people have relative dispositions of the various things they come to believe and that seems natural, yet a belief in God is an unnatural aittitude, pose or contortion of the Consciousness. You have placed your mind, ( or somebody has placed it) in a particular " Spiritual Aittitude", which is a dispose in postures. Your mind has assumed a particular mental aittitude which is not natural. Because this is unnatural, it is in error to assume that others not in this posture, will naturally understand you. As if that is just an easy, common thing for them to do.

Most people in the " Posture of Belief", feel as if unbelievers are unnatural in their posture, I disagree with that. In fact the bible calls unbelievers " The Natural Man." No, it is you, believer in God, who is being unnatural in your posture. And you need to understand that. Because many of you treat unbelievers as if they are weird and unnatural in their posture of unbelief.

Notice 1Corinth. 2:14;" But a Natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are Spiritually Appraised." Unbelief in God is the Natural Posture of a human, and when certain believers turn away from their belief, they simply are returning to their natural state of being, a posture that I do not see God condemning. Why should God condemn someone for being what they naturally are?

So many believers need to correctly and as fully as they can, understand the posture you are in.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The reason why so many believers seem to " Postulate a lot", is their posture of belief. When you postulate, you can claim or assume the existence of God, and demand it to be truth without proof. Thats what postulating is, self evident reasonings. This is WHY many believers are so flamboyant in their posture of belief, their minds have assumed that they are in the natural position, and that it is others who are unnatural , a serious error in the posture of belief. Then they start " Pontificating", postulating - which is preaching, and assume the higher ground.

The Posture of belief is meant to be a posture of humility.

And I want to continue on that.

Peace.

 

[DeitySlayer]

Mickiel, I have to say this is actually a brilliant post.

 

[Dunemeister]

This is not brilliant, it betrays a complete lack of familiarity with the terms being used in the NT that are translated "natural." The contrast there is not between what we call natural vs unnatural but between being dominated by the senses and culture (natural) vs enlightened and empowered by the Spirit of God (spiritual, which does not imply unnatural). From a biblical perspective, it is entirely natural to be so enlightened and empowered.

I don't expect those outside the Christian tribe to agree with this perspective, of course, but if they're going to disagree with it, they may as well do so accurately.

 

[mickiel]

This is not brilliant, it betrays a complete lack of familiarity with the terms being used in the NT that are translated "natural." The contrast there is not between what we call natural vs unnatural but between being dominated by the senses and culture (natural) vs enlightened and empowered by the Spirit of God (spiritual, which does not imply unnatural). From a biblical perspective, it is entirely natural to be so enlightened and empowered.

I don't expect those outside the Christian tribe to agree with this perspective, of course, but if they're going to disagree with it, they may as well do so accurately.

Well I do disagree with you and I am outside of your tribe. In my view, when the bible uses the term " Natural Man', it means an unspiritual man, or an unbeliever in God. It has nothing to do with " Senses and Culture', because believers use the exact same senses and can be the exact same culture as an unbeliever. It is not natural to be spiritually enlightened from any perspective that I understand.

All of humanity were created or born in their natural state of being, it is natural, or common place to not believe in God. It is normal, not abnormal. 1Corinth. 15:46;" However, the Spiritual is NOT first, but the Natural; then the Spiritual". Our natural, or birth condition, or normal human condition to be in, is a posture of unbelief. Then from that first or common condition, or average posture, one could then take on the " second Posture", or the unnatural one of believing in God.

And I want to continue on that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

This is not brilliant, .

Its just my views, thats all.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I don't expect those outside the Christian tribe to agree with this perspective, of course, but if they're going to disagree with it, they may as well do so accurately.

I consider my views to be biblically sound, I actually derive them from the scriptures. Which is why I am not Christian, I disagree with their view of scripture. 1Corinth. 15:47-49, gives the obvious principle of a human " Being of the earth", or Earthy, 49 shows we are born that way, its just natural; common; its the usual way; the first stage; the natural image of mankind. It is the posture God wanted us born with. " The Spiritual ( or belief) is not the first, but the natural ( unbelief) is the first stage of human existence and development, vs. 46.

I can't help but notice how some Christian thinkers like to twist this into somehow making unbelief in God to be unnatural, when the bible does not teach that.

Believe in God is an unnatural posture to take.

And I want to continue on that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Mickiel, I have to say this is actually a brilliant post.

Well thank you very much.

The posture of unbelief in God is natural, its common, its original, its normal, its the usual posture to be in. Its the posture God wanted us all naturally born in. And when God looks at a person who does not believe in him, he views that as natural, common, average, normal and their orginal state of intended being. God views all unbelievers in this manner he created them in. He does not see it as negative and abnormal, or evil and offensive. And any believer in God who is in a posture of belief, that views unbelief in any of these terms , is just in an offensive posture themselves.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

The posture of sin is common to humans, its natural for us to sin. 1Corinth. 10:13;" For no temptation has overtaken you but such as is " Common to man." Temptation is common, widespread or general. Its normal behavior for humanity, thats WHY we see everyone affected by it! The posture of unbelief was once the community at large. Not long after Adam and Eve were created, they begin to sin naturally. Not long after humans multiplied on the earth, did they begin to just naturally take on this posture.

You can see this in Genesis 5th and 6th chapters. Adam was said to have lived 930 years, had Seth who had Enosh who had Kenan. Later Methuselah was born who had Lamech who then had Noah. And this was a good period of time until Noah came along, perhaps some 10,000 years, judging by the math of liniage listed. And these humans were living a very long time. In Gen. 6:5, God sees that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only continually evil." And these generations of humans were just naturally like that.

These " Natural events" are what caused God to flood the earth in Noahs time. Then in Genesis 8:21 God vows never to do that again. He himself states that " The intent of the human heart is evil from its youth." Its just common, natural, the intent of humanity is to do its own thing.

I know this may surprise many of you, but really evil is part of the natural way, Good is part of the unnatural way.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[horntooth]

yet a belief in God is an unnatural aittitude, pose or contortion of the Consciousness.

theism is an unnatural? yep, and all those tribes who have developed and keep developing totally naturally without contact with so called "civilization" are all atheistic? well, no.

In fact the bible calls unbelievers " The Natural Man.

maybe those who don't believe in christianity are natural, but atheist certainly are not.

 

[mickiel]

theism is an unnatural? yep, and all those tribes who have developed and keep developing totally naturally without contact with so called "civilization" are all atheistic? well, no.quote

Well I think of those tribes who do believe in gods, they are what I would consider " Natural gods", or gods of the earth, like nature, animals and so on ect....


maybe those who don't believe in christianity are natural, but atheist certainly are not.

I totally disagree with this, it is natural for a human to be an Atheist. We have a God who does not reveal himself to a people, won't talk to them, won't let them see him, willnot enter into a personal relationship with them , willnot use his power to sway their minds; what do you expect the people to be like? Many of them are going to be Atheist, through absolutely no fault of their own, they were born into this kind of atmosphere , having a Consciousness complettely devoid of God.

Peace.

 

[Eliot Wild]

theism is an unnatural? yep, and all those tribes who have developed and keep developing totally naturally without contact with so called "civilization" are all atheistic? well, no.

I think I am inclined to agree with horntooth, however, mine is just speculation, more or less a theory based on no personal research or evidence.

However, there is a guy named Dean Hamer, a geneticist doing research on cigarette smoking. Somehow, in questioning subjects about 'self-transcendance', he stumbled upon correlations that led him to do another study on his own on the side.

He now theorizes that the VMAT2 gene, which has been referred to as the "God Gene", predisposes some humans to be more spiritual and/or atuned to mystic experiences. This geneticist and researcher, Hamer, believes that humans, some more than others depending on their genetic configuration, are hardwired to be receptive to idea of a god and/or the supernatural. Below is a wiki article about the "God Gene" and Hamer's theories:

God gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, nothing in this article nor anything in Hamer's side research have provided conclusive evidence of his theory. However, while as an agnostic I usually sit the fence on questions for which there are no definitive answers, if I were forced to make a guess, I would probably lean toward Hamer and his theory about VMAT2.

Of course, my speculation is merely that, speculation. But it has been my personal experience with friends, colleagues and even strangers who have been willing to engage on the subject, that it seems there are some people who more so than others are predisposed to religion, spiritualism and theism. This could be the result of environmental conditioning and not genetics, but at this point we don't really know.

So, in conclusion, though there is no conclusive proof either way, at least not that I know of, I am inclined to lean towards the notion that perhaps a genetic predisposition to theism and religious beliefs in God-models might exist with some people. Perhaps I am one of those with the gene, because while I am an agnostic, I certainly hold out hope that there is a Divine Presence acting in our universe. Ehh, then again, maybe not.

 

[mickiel]

So, in conclusion, though there is no conclusive proof either way, at least not that I know of, I am inclined to lean towards the notion that perhaps a genetic predisposition to theism and religious beliefs in God-models might exist with some people. Perhaps I am one of those with the gene, because while I am an agnostic, I certainly hold out hope that there is a Divine Presence acting in our universe. Ehh, then again, maybe not.

Well I don't view belief in God as genetic. I do believe that we can inherit things through our genes, like alcoholism and so on , however I view belief in God as a " Spiritual Posture", its a spiritual thing that occurs within our Consciousness, not a physical thing in our bodies.

All of the tribal gods that I have studied, have been gods of nature and animals, not a heavenly being off somewhere in the comos. And I think that is important, their beliefs are still natural , I wouldnot consider them spiritual.

Peace.

 

[DeitySlayer]

All of the tribal gods that I have studied, have been gods of nature and animals, not a heavenly being off somewhere in the comos. And I think that is important, their beliefs are still natural , I wouldnot consider them spiritual.

Peace.

Jesus walked on earth. It's harder to get further away from 'off somewhere in the cosmos' than that. God himself walked on Earth and revealed his 'back parts' to Moses. God created Nature; technically, he too is a god 'of nature'.

 

[mickiel]

Jesus walked on earth. It's harder to get further away from 'off somewhere in the cosmos' than that. God himself walked on Earth and revealed his 'back parts' to Moses. God created Nature; technically, he too is a god 'of nature'.

Well I agree with this , I would consider God as the God of nature , so if we speak in those terms, the tribes worship him in that manner. But what gives the seperation I am speaking of is that Jesus said that those who worship God, must do it in a " Spiritual Posture', not a natural one. God does not seek natural worship from man, but I think he understands it.

Its a " Spiritual thing with God", because he is a Spiritual being, not a natural one.

And there is a " Hughe difference between the two."

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Well I agree with this , I would consider God as the God of nature , so if we speak in those terms, the tribes worship him in that manner. But what gives the seperation I am speaking of is that Jesus said that those who worship God, must do it in a " Spiritual Posture', not a natural one. God does not seek natural worship from man, but I think he understands it.

Its a " Spiritual thing with God", because he is a Spiritual being, not a natural one.

And there is a " Hughe difference between the two."

Peace.

Yet this affords me the oppotunity to get a little into " Natural verses Spiritual belief." I think Agnostics have a " Natural belief in God", but just not with " The Whole Heart." Meaning belief with all of their Consciousness possible. They just half-heartedly believe it may be possible. Those who believe with the whole heart are heading towards the Spiritual Posture.

And there is a big difference there.

Peace.

 

[Misty]

Yet this affords me the oppotunity to get a little into " Natural verses Spiritual belief." I think Agnostics have a " Natural belief in God", but just not with " The Whole Heart." Meaning belief with all of their Consciousness possible. They just half-heartedly believe it may be possible. Those who believe with the whole heart are heading towards the Spiritual Posture.

And there is a big difference there.

Peace.

I certainly don't have a natural belief in God.

 

[mickiel]

Belief in God is a Posture that is more like a " Spiritual experience in the Consciousness", one that is wanting a " Relationship with God." I mean your serious enough to invest your being into your belief. We can actually believe things, but just are not serious enough about it to invest ourselves further into it. In example; I believe I can play a Piano , but I am not going to invest any time into learning. Because I am not serious enough about it.

Those who seriously believe in God will invest things into that belief. And that investment is the Posture of belief, a stance is being taken that the person is serious about. That requires an energy in the Consciousness, and I believe anyone who has gotten to that point, it was God himself who supplied the energy to their Consciousness, NOT they themselves.

And I want to explain that.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I certainly don't have a natural belief in God.

Well I don't think it applies to all Agnostics, just enough of them. But neither do I believe you are Agnostic , I think your an Atheist in Agnostic clothing, judging by all your thoughts I have studied. Going by what YOU say on this board, your mind is that of an Atheist, who likes the label of Agnostic, for whatever reason.

Peace.

 

[Thief]

I agree with Dunemeister.
This thread got off to a bad start, and will turn into another collection of nay saying.