The Problem Of Bad Facts About Guns

[esmith]

There are democratic nations like England or Australia having banned semi-auto weapons.

Better check your facts.
Which Guns are Legal in the UK? - Southdown Gun Club
According to UK law, a ‘rifle’ is defined as a firearm with a barrel which is longer than 30cm (12 in) and a length longer than 60cm (24 in) that does not fall under the classification of a long-barrelled revolver or a pistol. Single-shot, bolt-action, lever-action, and revolver rifles are legal in the UK, given you have a licence for it. Meanwhile, self-loading or pump-action rifles are only allowed in .22 rimfire calibre

What are the laws in Australia for purchasing and obtaining a firearm?
(5) Compile your firearm application form:

• Identify your genuine reasons for a firearm
• Identify Category of firearm you require: A, B, C, D and/or H. For D (most lethal firearms. For category D (Self-loading rifles and shotguns), applicant must show "special reason" as to why the applicant needs such a firearm and why a less lethal firearm would not fit the purpose.

Gun laws of Australia - Wikipedia
Category H
Handguns can be owned for a number of "genuine reasons" including target shooting, occupational (security guard and prison guard), carrying on behalf of a junior, and official, commercial or prescribed purposes authorized by an Act or Regulation. For target shooters, a paid membership to an approved pistol club is mandated.
Handguns allowed for target shooting are divided into four classes:

1. Air handgun
2. Rimfire handgun
3. Centrefire handgun with a calibre of .38 inches (9.7 mm) or less, or a black powder handgun
4. Centrefire handgun with a calibre of more than .38 inch but not more than .45 inches (11 mm)

The amount of shooting participation that a licensed target shooter is obliged to complete is solely determined by the number of classes of handguns that are legally "owned" by that person — not the actual quantity of handguns owned. A minimum number of matches is required yearly to retain ownership for each class of handgun and continue being a paid-up member of an approved pistol club,[16] and it varies between states.
To be eligible for a Category H Licence, a target shooter must serve a probationary period of at least 6 months and have to participate a minimum number of shooting sessions using club handguns, after which they are required to leave a fingerprint record with the police before applying for a permit. Target shooters are limited to handguns below .38 or 9mm calibers, and magazines may hold a maximum of 10 rounds. Participants in certain "approved" pistol competitions (currently only Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette) may acquire handguns up to .45 caliber. IPSC shooting is approved for 9mm/.38/.357 SIG for handguns that meet the IPSC rules. Larger calibres such as .45 were approved for IPSC contests in Australia in 2014, however so far only in Victoria.[17] The barrel must be at least 100 mm (3.94 in) long for revolvers, and 120 mm (4.72 in) for semi-automatic pistols, unless the pistols are clearly ISSF target pistols.
Centrefire handguns with a caliber greater than .45 are considered restricted firearms, whose ownership require a Category R/E Licence (see below).

 

[Wildswanderer]

I'd like the manufacturing of all semi-auto weapons banned, any of these weapons confiscated if found to be made after a designated time they shall not be created!

What you want isn't the issue here... it's what the 2A means. "Shall not be infringed."

 

[Suave]

Better check your facts.
Which Guns are Legal in the UK? - Southdown Gun Club
According to UK law, a ‘rifle’ is defined as a firearm with a barrel which is longer than 30cm (12 in) and a length longer than 60cm (24 in) that does not fall under the classification of a long-barrelled revolver or a pistol. Single-shot, bolt-action, lever-action, and revolver rifles are legal in the UK, given you have a licence for it. Meanwhile, self-loading or pump-action rifles are only allowed in .22 rimfire calibre

What are the laws in Australia for purchasing and obtaining a firearm?
(5) Compile your firearm application form:

• Identify your genuine reasons for a firearm
• Identify Category of firearm you require: A, B, C, D and/or H. For D (most lethal firearms. For category D (Self-loading rifles and shotguns), applicant must show "special reason" as to why the applicant needs such a firearm and why a less lethal firearm would not fit the purpose.

Gun laws of Australia - Wikipedia
Category H
Handguns can be owned for a number of "genuine reasons" including target shooting, occupational (security guard and prison guard), carrying on behalf of a junior, and official, commercial or prescribed purposes authorized by an Act or Regulation. For target shooters, a paid membership to an approved pistol club is mandated.
Handguns allowed for target shooting are divided into four classes:

1. Air handgun
2. Rimfire handgun
3. Centrefire handgun with a calibre of .38 inches (9.7 mm) or less, or a black powder handgun
4. Centrefire handgun with a calibre of more than .38 inch but not more than .45 inches (11 mm)

The amount of shooting participation that a licensed target shooter is obliged to complete is solely determined by the number of classes of handguns that are legally "owned" by that person — not the actual quantity of handguns owned. A minimum number of matches is required yearly to retain ownership for each class of handgun and continue being a paid-up member of an approved pistol club,[16] and it varies between states.
To be eligible for a Category H Licence, a target shooter must serve a probationary period of at least 6 months and have to participate a minimum number of shooting sessions using club handguns, after which they are required to leave a fingerprint record with the police before applying for a permit. Target shooters are limited to handguns below .38 or 9mm calibers, and magazines may hold a maximum of 10 rounds. Participants in certain "approved" pistol competitions (currently only Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette) may acquire handguns up to .45 caliber. IPSC shooting is approved for 9mm/.38/.357 SIG for handguns that meet the IPSC rules. Larger calibres such as .45 were approved for IPSC contests in Australia in 2014, however so far only in Victoria.[17] The barrel must be at least 100 mm (3.94 in) long for revolvers, and 120 mm (4.72 in) for semi-automatic pistols, unless the pistols are clearly ISSF target pistols.
Centrefire handguns with a caliber greater than .45 are considered restricted firearms, whose ownership require a Category R/E Licence (see below).

I doubt the U.K. or Australia allow private ownership of semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines, but I will look into that.

 

[Suave]

Better check your facts.
Which Guns are Legal in the UK? - Southdown Gun Club
According to UK law, a ‘rifle’ is defined as a firearm with a barrel which is longer than 30cm (12 in) and a length longer than 60cm (24 in) that does not fall under the classification of a long-barrelled revolver or a pistol. Single-shot, bolt-action, lever-action, and revolver rifles are legal in the UK, given you have a licence for it. Meanwhile, self-loading or pump-action rifles are only allowed in .22 rimfire calibre

What are the laws in Australia for purchasing and obtaining a firearm?
(5) Compile your firearm application form:

• Identify your genuine reasons for a firearm
• Identify Category of firearm you require: A, B, C, D and/or H. For D (most lethal firearms. For category D (Self-loading rifles and shotguns), applicant must show "special reason" as to why the applicant needs such a firearm and why a less lethal firearm would not fit the purpose.

Gun laws of Australia - Wikipedia
Category H
Handguns can be owned for a number of "genuine reasons" including target shooting, occupational (security guard and prison guard), carrying on behalf of a junior, and official, commercial or prescribed purposes authorized by an Act or Regulation. For target shooters, a paid membership to an approved pistol club is mandated.
Handguns allowed for target shooting are divided into four classes:

1. Air handgun
2. Rimfire handgun
3. Centrefire handgun with a calibre of .38 inches (9.7 mm) or less, or a black powder handgun
4. Centrefire handgun with a calibre of more than .38 inch but not more than .45 inches (11 mm)

The amount of shooting participation that a licensed target shooter is obliged to complete is solely determined by the number of classes of handguns that are legally "owned" by that person — not the actual quantity of handguns owned. A minimum number of matches is required yearly to retain ownership for each class of handgun and continue being a paid-up member of an approved pistol club,[16] and it varies between states.
To be eligible for a Category H Licence, a target shooter must serve a probationary period of at least 6 months and have to participate a minimum number of shooting sessions using club handguns, after which they are required to leave a fingerprint record with the police before applying for a permit. Target shooters are limited to handguns below .38 or 9mm calibers, and magazines may hold a maximum of 10 rounds. Participants in certain "approved" pistol competitions (currently only Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette) may acquire handguns up to .45 caliber. IPSC shooting is approved for 9mm/.38/.357 SIG for handguns that meet the IPSC rules. Larger calibres such as .45 were approved for IPSC contests in Australia in 2014, however so far only in Victoria.[17] The barrel must be at least 100 mm (3.94 in) long for revolvers, and 120 mm (4.72 in) for semi-automatic pistols, unless the pistols are clearly ISSF target pistols.
Centrefire handguns with a caliber greater than .45 are considered restricted firearms, whose ownership require a Category R/E Licence (see below).

Per MSN,, Why Australia has had only one mass shooting since 1996, "The government banned automatic and semiautomatic guns, created a new national firearms registry and a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases..."

Why Australia has had only one mass shooting since 1996 (msn.com)

 

[Suave]

What you want isn't the issue here... it's what the 2A means. "Shall not be infringed."

You do realize semi auto firearms did not exist when the U.S. Constitution was written back in 1791 when firearms had flint rock firing mechanisms, Flint lock firearms are the type of arms referenced in the U.S, Constitution. I doubt the second amendment gives U.S citizens the right to bear fully automatic firearms or semi-automatic firearms. However, the U.S, Constitution perhaps guarantees U.S, citizens the right to bear non-semi-automatic firearms with a flint rock firing mechanism,

 

[Wildswanderer]

You do realize semi auto firearms did not exist when the U.S. Constitution was written back in 1791 when firearms had flint rock firing mechanisms, Flint lock firearms are the type of arms referenced in the U.S, Constitution. I doubt the second amendment gives U.S citizens the right to bear fully automatic firearms or semi-automatic firearms. However, the U.S, Constitution perhaps guarantees U.S, citizens the right to bear non-semi-automatic firearms with a flint rock firing mechanism,

What you doubt doesn't matter... it's how the court interprets the 2A.

 

[Secret Chief]

I doubt the U.K. or Australia allow private ownership of semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines, but I will look into that.

The essential point is the UK has low gun ownership, low mass shootings and strict regulations.

"In the United Kingdom, the percentage of adults living in a household with a firearm is reported to be... 2%"
- Guns in the United Kingdom — Firearms, gun law and gun control

- UK’s strict gun laws strengthened with new medical arrangements

Of course, the US is top of the table...

- Gun Ownership by Country 2022

 

[Revoltingest]

You do realize semi auto firearms did not exist when the U.S. Constitution was written back in 1791 when firearms had flint rock firing mechanisms, Flint lock firearms are the type of arms referenced in the U.S, Constitution. I doubt the second amendment gives U.S citizens the right to bear fully automatic firearms or semi-automatic firearms. However, the U.S, Constitution perhaps guarantees U.S, citizens the right to bear non-semi-automatic firearms with a flint rock firing mechanism,

Consider a different view of the 2nd Amendment....
It wasn't written about a very specific weapon technology.
In their time they saw it evolving, eg, smoothbore to rifled
barrels.
They envisioned small arms that were militarily capable
relative to the country's foes. The right was to possess
whatever the technology evolved to.

 

[Suave]

What you doubt doesn't matter... it's how the court interprets the 2A.

Some good news there! States or Congress can lawfully ban semi-auto weapons, The state or federal government denying anybody a weapon capable of slaughtering dozens of people within a matter of a few minutes does not infringe upon any person's second amendment rights.

 

[Suave]

Consider a different view of the 2nd Amendment....
It wasn't written about a very specific weapon technology.
They envisioned small arms that were militarily capable
relative to the country's foes. The right was to possess
whatever the technology evolved to.

Militarily-wise, yes!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Some good news there! States or Congress can lawfully ban semi-auto weapons, The state or federal government denying anybody a weapon capable of slaughtering dozens of people within a matter of a few minutes does not infringe upon any person's second amendment rights.

Nope... apparently you don't know about the Heller decision.

District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia

 

[Suave]

Nope... apparently you don't know about the Heller decision.

District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia

That court decision does not mean the state or Congress lacks authoritative powers to outlaw semi-automatic weapons. Congress could very well expand the U,S, Supreme Court by adding two more Supreme Court Judges who shall clarify in favor of the State to outlaw semi-automatic weapons,

 

[Wildswanderer]

That court decision does not mean the state or Congress lacks authoritative powers to outlaw semi-automatic weapons. Congress could very well expand the U,S, Supreme Court by adding two more Supreme Court Judges who shall clarify in favor of the State to outlaw semi-automatic weapons,

Thereby making many law abiding citizens immediately outlaws.

 

[Suave]

Thereby making many law abiding citizens immediately outlaws.

If there were still plenty of non semi auto firearms and some existing semi auto firearms grandfathered from being prohibited by law, I am confident most gun owners would be reasonably content with having their legally allowed non-semi-auto guns thereby keeping them in compliance with obeying a sensible public safety minded law prohibiting them from purchasing newly manufactured illegal semi auto firearms. they would risk having to be confiscated.

 

[esmith]

If there were still plenty of non semi auto firearms and some existing semi auto firearms grandfathered from being prohibited by law, I am confident most gun owners would be reasonably content with having their legally allowed non-semi-auto guns thereby keeping them in compliance with obeying a sensible public safety minded law prohibiting them from purchasing newly manufactured illegal semi auto firearms. they would risk having to be confiscated.

Maybe yoiu should look closer at the surge in the purchase of firearms, I think there are a lot of us that disagee with you.
here 3 sources, take your pick
U.S. Bought Almost 20 Million Guns Last Year — Second-Highest Year On Record
American gun sales continue to surge, new research finds
America is on a gun-buying spree. Here's what is driving the surge - CNN

 

[shunyadragon]

Duh!
I don't expect facts by themselves to solve anything.
But actual facts (as opposed to fake ones) are useful
when one applies reasoning to achieve one's goals.

I do not believe the ban was in effect long enough to measure it's effectiveness in reducing mass killings and school shootings. There were already abundant military rifles in private hands.

Facts: (!) The AR 15 and related rifles were designed to maim and kill humans with maximum body injury to humans in combat. (2) Those who commit mass killings and other criminal acts chose these weapons as their weapon of choice for this reason.. (3) They are not hunting firearms. There are many types of Firearms much better designed and suited for hunting. (4) Many radical conservatives have and are hoarding these rifles for the potential of rebellion against the government. Some own hundreds if not thousands of these military weapons. (5) In today's technology these rifles can be easily converted to military automatic mode, and even made at home.

Nonetheless the cats out of the bag there are already millions of these rifles in civilian hands, and many converted to military automatic mode, which is illegal. Any type of ban in the past nor in the future would not likely be effective. I do not believe there is any sound reason for private ownership of these rifles.

The problem is the prevalent 'fear and paranoid military firearm culture of the USA not present in any other country in the world.

Why are we the only culture in the world with the prevalent occurrance of 'mass killing in schools and elsewhere.

 

[shunyadragon]

Maybe yoiu should look closer at the surge in the purchase of firearms, I think there are a lot of us that disagee with you.
here 3 sources, take your pick
U.S. Bought Almost 20 Million Guns Last Year — Second-Highest Year On Record
American gun sales continue to surge, new research finds
America is on a gun-buying spree. Here's what is driving the surge - CNN

I do believe the stats of the number of military weapons sold to private citizens needs to separated.

 

[esmith]

I do believe the stats of the number of military weapons sold to private citizens needs to separated.

Why, current military weapons are not sold to the public, except for pistols, and shotguns

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not believe the ban was in effect long enough to measure it's effectiveness in reducing mass killings and school shootings. There were already abundant military rifles in private hands.

The ban was so extremely limited (certain semi-autos
made between a 10 year period) that it didn't affect the
number of similar guns on the market. Actually, the
hype surrounding the ban actually caused demand to
increase, & manufacturers greatly boosted production
to meet it. So it appears that the effect of the 1994 law
was the opposite of what they intended.

Facts: (!) The AR 15 and related rifles were designed to maim and kill humans with maximum body injury to humans in combat. (2) Those who commit mass killings and other criminal acts chose these weapons as their weapon of choice for this reason.. (3) They are not hunting firearms.

They are useful for hunting though.
But the 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting.
It's about defense against humans bent on mayhem.

Why do so many anti-gun types think that
hunting is the only use for firearms?

There are many types of Firearms much better designed and suited for hunting. (4) Many radical conservatives have and are hoarding these rifles for the potential of rebellion against the government. Some own hundreds if not thousands of these military weapons. (5) In today's technology these rifles can be easily converted to military automatic mode, and even made at home.

Nonetheless the cats out of the bag there are already millions of these rifles in civilian hands, and many converted to military automatic mode, which is illegal. Any type of ban in the past nor in the future would not likely be effective. I do not believe there is any sound reason for private ownership of these rifles.

The problem is the prevalent 'fear and paranoid military firearm culture of the USA not present in any other country in the world.

Why are we the only culture in the world with the prevalent occurrance of 'mass killing in schools and elsewhere.

The problem I'm addressing is your bad facts,
eg, the content & effects of the 1994 "ban".

 

[Suave]

Maybe yoiu should look closer at the surge in the purchase of firearms, I think there are a lot of us that disagee with you.
here 3 sources, take your pick
U.S. Bought Almost 20 Million Guns Last Year — Second-Highest Year On Record
American gun sales continue to surge, new research finds
America is on a gun-buying spree. Here's what is driving the surge - CNN

How scary! Maybe I should seriously consider moving to Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced a national freeze on new gun purchases there,

Canada to Freeze Purchases and Transfers of Handguns | Democracy Now!