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The Problem of Evil, Messiah, and Wrath.

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
God can’t allow for evil to exist and be omnipotent, all benevolent, and omniscient. But, the problem of evil doesn’t deny the belief in and the patience for a messiah, and Elohim created our moment of pain we let be to create the angels of Wraith. Basically God wouldn’t let wrath suffer alone, and did not damn him to heck, and honored his nature to not be inhumane by keeping a human nature dormant. Thoughts?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
God can’t allow for evil to exist and be omnipotent, all benevolent, and omniscient. But, the problem of evil doesn’t deny the belief in and the patience for a messiah, and Elohim created our moment of pain we let be to create the angels of Wraith. Basically God wouldn’t let wrath suffer alone, and did not damn him to heck, and honored his nature to not be inhumane by keeping a human nature dormant. Thoughts?
Please quote from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah in this connection if one is not a superficial follower of him but a true follower of him, please. Right?

Regards
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
God can’t allow for evil to exist and be omnipotent, all benevolent, and omniscient. But, the problem of evil doesn’t deny the belief in and the patience for a messiah, and Elohim created our moment of pain we let be to create the angels of Wraith. Basically God wouldn’t let wrath suffer alone, and did not damn him to heck, and honored his nature to not be inhumane by keeping a human nature dormant. Thoughts?

Are you saying He has to give up one of those 4 options?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
God can’t allow for evil to exist and be omnipotent, all benevolent, and omniscient. But, the problem of evil doesn’t deny the belief in and the patience for a messiah, and Elohim created our moment of pain we let be to create the angels of Wraith. Basically God wouldn’t let wrath suffer alone, and did not damn him to heck, and honored his nature to not be inhumane by keeping a human nature dormant. Thoughts?
This doesn't speak to the core issue in the problem of evil: a creator whose creation doesn't meet his own standard is an imperfect creator.

Your post is about how God should respond to the imperfection that got into his creation, but if there's any imperfection whatsoever, then this implies that God isn't an omnimax deity (if he exists at all).
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Your post is about how God should respond to the imperfection that got into his creation, but if there's any imperfection whatsoever, then this implies that God isn't an omnimax deity (if he exists at all).
Human beings are "the imperfection"..
Why did God create us capable of evil?
That is the question, and many of us realise that we are being tested, and this world lasts for a "split-second", relative to eternity.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
God can’t allow for evil to exist and be omnipotent, all benevolent, and omniscient. But, the problem of evil doesn’t deny the belief in and the patience for a messiah, and Elohim created our moment of pain we let be to create the angels of Wraith. Basically God wouldn’t let wrath suffer alone, and did not damn him to heck, and honored his nature to not be inhumane by keeping a human nature dormant. Thoughts?

What is the angels of wrath?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
God can’t allow for evil to exist and be omnipotent, all benevolent, and omniscient. But, the problem of evil doesn’t deny the belief in and the patience for a messiah, and Elohim created our moment of pain we let be to create the angels of Wraith. Basically God wouldn’t let wrath suffer alone, and did not damn him to heck, and honored his nature to not be inhumane by keeping a human nature dormant. Thoughts?

God is said to be "love" in the Bible. Does that mean that God has to not allow evil to exist or does it mean that He gets the best outcome for everyone when evil is seen to exist?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Human beings are "the imperfection"..
Why did God create us capable of evil?
That is the question, and many of us realise that we are being tested, and this world lasts for a "split-second", relative to eternity.
So:

- God failed to create a creation that perfectly reflects his will because he's testing us, and

- God's failures and imperfections aren't a big deal because life is short compared to a hypothetical eternity.

Really? Did I understand you correctly?
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
So:

- God failed to create a creation that perfectly reflects his will because he's testing us, and

- God's failures and imperfections aren't a big deal because life is short compared to a hypothetical eternity.

Really? Did I understand you correctly?
No point in replying to sarcasm..
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
God can’t allow for evil to exist and be omnipotent, all benevolent, and omniscient. But, the problem of evil doesn’t deny the belief in and the patience for a messiah, and Elohim created our moment of pain we let be to create the angels of Wraith. Basically God wouldn’t let wrath suffer alone, and did not damn him to heck, and honored his nature to not be inhumane by keeping a human nature dormant. Thoughts?

We need to go back to the story of Adam and Eve, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil to understand the source of evil. Knowledge of good and evil is what defines good and evil. For example, CO2 was not always an evil greenhouse gas, until the fear mongers defined it as evil. In the blink of an eye, a molecule became evil. Before Adam and Eve ate from that tree and learned to define good and evil, evil did not exist. There was nothing in paradise that was displayed as evil or scary. Paradise was very peaceful and loving.

God said, if you eat from this tree you shall surely die. That was the warning of the evil that would come from a type of learned knowledge; good and evil. But Satan said if you eat from the tree, you will be like God, knowing good from evil. This crossroads is when evil appeared. Eating from the tree symbolized learning; eaten this unique food for thought.

What Satan was selling was not morality, but relative morality. It was not the divine morality that was built into human nature and instinct before the fall. God knew if Adam and Eve chose relative morality, this would lead to pain, suffering, and conflict, since people will assume what is good for themselves, is also good for all. If a ruthless dictator thinks it is good to torture and kill his enemies, via his own code of relative morality, then evil will come to his nation, posing as the leader's relative good. Many citizens will help round up his critics, since this is good. To get along in culture, and not be a target, you may need to stand on your head.

Relative morality creates more than one set of rules, which will then create conflict, since everyone is not on the same page. Picture playing a sport where everyone makes up their own rules. There will be arguments and fights with people getting hurt due to conflicting rules, where each person is trying to stack the deck for themselves to win. This is where evil came from; human will and choice. The street thug who robs people with a gun is doing good by his own rules of relative morality; he is making money. The vigilante who seeks out such people for extermination, is also doing good by his own relative moral code. Both may conflict with your relative code.

If you are an eternal God, a few thousand years of humans practicing relative morality and define evil, is a blink of an eye. The humans are learning the pitfalls of relative morality, the hard way, but will eventually end up finding the natural path back too Eden. If God does it for them, they do not have free will and choice.

Jesus was a sacrifice for sin; forgiveness of sin. This did away with law, since human law is full of relative morality, which keeps evil alive; laws based on political and personal bias.

In ancient times, each culture had its own rules; clique, which did not fully overlap the rules of their neighbors. Relative morality needed to end so the conflict/evil zones, between, could be bridged. The two political parties in America, each have their own relative moral code. The game of politics has gotten out of control, due to the relative evil that is spawned. Humans do not need God to create evil out of thin air. Ironically, those who preach relative morality tend to blame god and not their own code.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
It wasn't sarcasm.
Yes it is.
You make Almighty God out to be "failing and imperfect"..
That is not true. He created mankind capable of choosing for themselves whether to be angelic or devilish.
Human beings have to answer for the evil they cause.

God wants us to learn to become wise..
..some people just won't take responsibility.
Blaming it onto God won't help you.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yes it is.
You make Almighty God out to be "failing and imperfect"..
No, that was you. I was just calling attention to the implication of what you said.

That is not true. He created mankind capable of choosing for themselves whether to be angelic or devilish.
Human beings have to answer for the evil they cause.
A perfect creation wouldn't choose evil even if given the opportunity.

The existence of imperfection in God's creation necessarily points to God's imperfection as a creator.

God wants us to learn to become wise..
..some people just won't take responsibility.
Blaming it onto God won't help you.
Heh... I don't blame God for anything. I don't think any gods exist to blame.

I'm pointing out that you're violating your own premises, and therefore at least some of what you're saying must be wrong.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
The existence of imperfection in God's creation necessarily points to God's imperfection as a creator.
It most certainly doesn't.
Why is it that billions of people can understand, but not you?

There is no such thing as "good" if there was no bad.
Almighty God has given us intelligence and responsibility.

You want to assume that it is possible to create a world in which we are responsible for our actions, but not free to do bad stuff.
It is a logical contradiction.

..just like the "joke" "Can God lift a rock that is too heavy to move?" etc.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
This doesn't speak to the core issue in the problem of evil: a creator whose creation doesn't meet his own standard is an imperfect creator.

Your post is about how God should respond to the imperfection that got into his creation, but if there's any imperfection whatsoever, then this implies that God isn't an omnimax deity (if he exists at all).

why are we imperfect if God has only suffered to create a sweet angel? What if we are here suffering is to save women and children, couldn’t that be alright?
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Human beings are "the imperfection"..
Why did God create us capable of evil?
That is the question, and many of us realise that we are being tested, and this world lasts for a "split-second", relative to eternity.

Would you think imperfections can be restored and perfected?
 
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