The Problem with Christian Music

[Skwim]

I don't listen to Christian music often. But I know when someone is open on a forum and when someone comes to mock. Considering the Christian God doesn't exist, you sure spend a lot of time whining about Him and His followers. Why? I mean, I COULD do post on atheists who do lame music, but is that the ISSUE?

So from where you sit the only ones who should have a right to judge what Christians say and believe are Christians themselves. Do you have any idea how quickly RF would fold if this was put into practice? I don't believe you do. And just because someone brings a fact to light doesn't mean they're mocking those to whom the fact applies. As for this particular issue, please note that at the end of my OP I made the point that the problem with Christian music seems to be no different than that of secular music.

Perhaps you should stick to reading only those posts, OPs and otherwise, created by your fellow Christians.

.

 

[Cacotopia]

I don't listen to Christian music often. But I know when someone is open on a forum and when someone comes to mock. Considering the Christian God doesn't exist, you sure spend a lot of time whining about Him and His followers. Why? I mean, I COULD do post on atheists who do lame music, but is that the ISSUE?

If most religions didn't require it's followers to go spread their faith. Or they didn't try to sneak their personal believies into government and just kept it to themselves. I would have far fewer problems with religion. A religion isn't a country and when you have a base multicultural population like you do in America, that includes many faiths, yours doesn't matter when the whole is taken into account.

That's why unaffiliated, nonbelievers, and agnostics push hard for separation of religion and state.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't listen to Christian music often. But I know when someone is open on a forum and when someone comes to mock. Considering the Christian God doesn't exist, you sure spend a lot of time whining about Him and His followers. Why? I mean, I COULD do post on atheists who do lame music, but is that the ISSUE?

IRL, I spend more time *****ing about Christians that Skwim does here. Why? They make my life unnecessarily difficult. I leave them alone, why can't they extend the courtesy? They want to point out the so called "sins" in my life but forget their own alleged Messiah said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," and when they want to preach and proselytize there are too many who won't take a polite "no thank you, I'm not interested" for an answer. And then because they want to yap on about things I don't want to hear, I make sure to state things they definitely don't want to hear.

 

[Cacotopia]

IRL, I spend more time *****ing about Christians that Skwim does here. Why? They make my life unnecessarily difficult. I leave them alone, why can't they extend the courtesy? They want to point out the so called "sins" in my life but forget their own alleged Messiah said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," and when they want to preach and proselytize there are too many who won't take a polite "no thank you, I'm not interested" for an answer. And then because they want to yap on about things I don't want to hear, I make sure to state things they definitely don't want to hear.

They even have the temerity to tell me I wasted my whole life because I didn't include god in it. Or my life has no meaning without god in it. *eye roll* it never ends I don't go around telling people to not believe. I keep that to myself like it probably should be, but noooooOOOOooo ya'll gotta invade my personal space and tell me about the good word, **** off already.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wasted my whole life because I didn't include god in it. Or my life has no meaning without god in it.

I absolutely HATE hearing that. It's automatically a given they don't respect us when they say that, and that they don't give a damn to try to learn about or understand us. It goes hand-in-hand in claiming we are immoral without god. I'm a Luciferian, I have no god, but yet I end up acting more "Christ-like" than the overwhelming majority of Christians. An article that was posted on RF not too long ago highlighted Christians getting upset that their pastor put a statue of a homeless Jesus sleeping on a bench in front of the church. I let my apostate flag fly, and my client load has included the homeless.

 

[Cacotopia]

I absolutely HATE hearing that. It's automatically a given they don't respect us when they say that, and that they don't give a damn to try to learn about or understand us. It goes hand-in-hand in claiming we are immoral without god. I'm a Luciferian, I have no god, but yet I end up acting more "Christ-like" than the overwhelming majority of Christians. An article that was posted on RF not too long ago highlighted Christians getting upset that their pastor put a statue of a homeless Jesus sleeping on a bench in front of the church. I let my apostate flag fly, and my client load has included the homeless.

I find a lot of Christians talk the talk but never walk the walk or they are NIMBY about 'helping" people.

 

[exchemist]

I find this thread rather amusing. Christianity was the fountainhead of Western music for centuries! I'm with blu2 and Socratic Berean: just think of some of the stuff produced for the church from 1450 onward.

Here for example (from 1:23:30) you can hear the magical Gloria Patri at the end of Monteverdi's 1610 Vespers:

The ethereal spirituality of this makes me imagine angels in heaven, or thanksgiving at the end of life.

Or here, from 1:14:40, an exuberant syncopated fugue from Bach's St. John Passion:

I just enjoy this one - sang it at Passiontide with my local choral society.

Or simple Gregorian chant: here is the Kyrie from Missa cum Jubilo, one of my favourites that we sing at church on Sundays sometimes:

This music, which is almost a thousand years old, is something that even today takes you away from your daily cares and creates a calm and meditative mood, at the start of the mass.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I find this thread rather amusing. Christianity was the fountainhead of Western music for centuries! I'm with blu2 and Socratic Berean: just think of some of the stuff produced for the church from 1450 onward.

I don't find it amusing, but "Christian music" is definitely getting some undue hate, a lack of deserved recognition, and being snubbed by people who probably don't know (and may not want to acknowledge) the massive role Christian music played in shaping, developing, and stylizing Western music from the ground up.

 

[sojourner]

There’s sacred music, and then there’s Christian music. See video for example of Christian music. See Bach for example of sacred music.

 

[exchemist]

There’s sacred music, and then there’s Christian music. See video for example of Christian music. See Bach for example of sacred music.

I rather like this distinction.

Evidently I have been misunderstanding the entire thread.

 

[David T]

I don't listen to pop, so I don't know what they sing about.

Bubblegum

 

[Cacotopia]

Bubblegum

alright, but I am sure there is a wider cone of topics they can sing about than, Christ, suffering, looking for jeebus, or how awesome god is.

 

[Altfish]

Apart from some gospel and classical, Christian music is very tame. Trouble is, good music is rough, ready, nasty - all things Christianity isn't.

 

[sojourner]

Apart from some gospel and classical, Christian music is very tame. Trouble is, good music is rough, ready, nasty - all things Christianity isn't.

Maybe Xy ought to be those things?

 

[BilliardsBall]

IRL, I spend more time *****ing about Christians that Skwim does here. Why? They make my life unnecessarily difficult. I leave them alone, why can't they extend the courtesy? They want to point out the so called "sins" in my life but forget their own alleged Messiah said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," and when they want to preach and proselytize there are too many who won't take a polite "no thank you, I'm not interested" for an answer. And then because they want to yap on about things I don't want to hear, I make sure to state things they definitely don't want to hear.

So . . .

1) You stay active on a religious forums site, where people preach religion

2) You state things Christians don't like because you know they are already persistent, to annoy them, and make them talk to you more

You sound masochistic to me.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So from where you sit the only ones who should have a right to judge what Christians say and believe are Christians themselves. Do you have any idea how quickly RF would fold if this was put into practice? I don't believe you do. And just because someone brings a fact to light doesn't mean they're mocking those to whom the fact applies. As for this particular issue, please note that at the end of my OP I made the point that the problem with Christian music seems to be no different than that of secular music.

Perhaps you should stick to reading only those posts, OPs and otherwise, created by your fellow Christians.

.

You certainly have a right to judge Christians, you have free will, and you have a free nation to exercise speech. However, even freedom can be abused and you daily condemn and judge Christians. I'm urging you not to sully your conscience by sticking your finger in God's eye.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If most religions didn't require it's followers to go spread their faith. Or they didn't try to sneak their personal believies into government and just kept it to themselves. I would have far fewer problems with religion. A religion isn't a country and when you have a base multicultural population like you do in America, that includes many faiths, yours doesn't matter when the whole is taken into account.

That's why unaffiliated, nonbelievers, and agnostics push hard for separation of religion and state.

So . . . it's wrong for religionists to 1) proselytize 2) sneak their beliefs into government 3) not keep to themselves...

...But it's fine for atheists and skeptics to: 1) preach atheism, even on a religious forum 2) sneak their beliefs into government 3) not keep to themselves and judge religionists (as you do in your post).

Christians who really believe in freedom AND witnessing sometimes go to court to protect the free speech rights of others. If you believe the same way, maybe you should stand up for the Christians rather than condemn them for what you do. Romans says in chapters 1 and 2 something we'd both do well to watch out for...

Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

 

[Cacotopia]

I have yet to see an atheist preacher or someone knocking on my door telling me about science.

 

[Cacotopia]

So . . . it's wrong for religionists to 1) proselytize 2) sneak their beliefs into government 3) not keep to themselves...

...But it's fine for atheists and skeptics to: 1) preach atheism, even on a religious forum 2) sneak their beliefs into government 3) not keep to themselves and judge religionists (as you do in your post).

Christians who really believe in freedom AND witnessing sometimes go to court to protect the free speech rights of others. If you believe the same way, maybe you should stand up for the Christians rather than condemn them for what you do. Romans says in chapters 1 and 2 something we'd both do well to watch out for...

Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

Why are you here then, if you want a debate group to be exclusionary. If atheists weren't in this group I bet you would be arguing against people of other nontheistic disagreeing with you, and whether or not they should be allowed in the religious forums. You don't want to find a common ground, you want your way no matter the cost, no matter who it harms or who it excludes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

1) You stay active on a religious forums site, where people preach religion

Christianity and religion aren't the same, interchangeable, or synonyms. And since you apparently neglected to read the rules and TOS that you agreed to in order to join this site, just you know preaching here is against the rules.

2) You state things Christians don't like because you know they are already persistent, to annoy them, and make them talk to you more

No, it's because they are being rude, and I tend to save kindness for those who deserve it and have shown it.

You sound masochistic to me.

Actually, I am, but the reasons you stated are entirely wrong.

I'm urging you not to sully your conscience by sticking your finger in God's eye.

As Skwim doesn't have a religious affiliation or personal deity, I'm going to guess he too catches flak from Christians who insist he's the one who needs to change, with many of them being rude about it.

So . . . it's wrong for religionists to 1) proselytize 2) sneak their beliefs into government 3) not keep to themselves...

1) They can (but not here), but they need to all, universally, learn how to move on after someone says no and respect those who say no.
2) That is illegal and unconstitutional, and by keeping religion out we maximize religious freedom the most for all.
3) According to Paul (1 Corinthians 5:11) you are supposed to keep to yourself. Now, of course that is the exact opposite of what Jesus did, so it's up to you to chose between Jesus and Paul. As for the rest of the world, most people don't care so long as you aren't being a jerk and dominate conversation with religion and damnation.

..But it's fine for atheists and skeptics to: 1) preach atheism, even on a religious forum 2) sneak their beliefs into government 3) not keep to themselves and judge religionists (as you do in your post).

1) Preaching isn't allowed here, and there are no atheist preachers.
2) Nope. Making "no laws that respect the establishment of religion" is pretty broad and is explicitly secular.
3) It's pretty hard to keep to yourself when there aren't many of you. And if you pay attention, religions like Christianity and Islam fall under criticism far more frequently than those such as Buddhism. So this "religionists" thingy doesn't work.