The Profit of War

[Nakosis]

$61 Billion to Ukraine. The cost of war?
Think of it this way, someone is getting that $61 billion to continue the war.

Should the US be supporting the continuation of war?

Another $26 billion to Israel so the war against Iran can continue. I wonder who benefits?
Certainly not the Israelis, Palestinians, Ukrainians or Russians who die in these wars.

 

[sayak83]

$61 Billion to Ukraine. The cost of war?
Think of it this way, someone is getting that $61 billion to continue the war.

Should the US be supporting the continuation of war?

Another $26 billion to Israel so the war against Iran can continue. I wonder who benefits?
Certainly not the Israelis, Palestinians, Ukrainians or Russians who die in these wars.

Its US and NATO decision whether they will support Ukraine or let Russia conquer the country and get rewarded for aggression.
Israel should not be supported with any military aid at all. In fact Israel should be driven out of Palestinian territories, with these territories brought directly under the control of a UN sponsored multi-national army coalition. The aim would be a de-arming of all Hamas like militant faction in Palestine and the creation of an independent but de-militarized Palestine state whose security should be the UN responsibility.

 

[LadyJane]

A short read worth checking out.

War Is a Racket - Wikipedia

 

[Twilight Hue]

$61 Billion to Ukraine. The cost of war?
Think of it this way, someone is getting that $61 billion to continue the war.

Should the US be supporting the continuation of war?

Another $26 billion to Israel so the war against Iran can continue. I wonder who benefits?
Certainly not the Israelis, Palestinians, Ukrainians or Russians who die in these wars.

87 billion combined.

And the taxpayers will gain no benefit on the home front where all that money goes over there and never returns with interest.

Question I have is this a loan or a gift?

 

[Augustus]

And the taxpayers will gain no benefit on the home front where all that money goes over there and never returns with interest.

The money doesn't all "go over there".

Most of the money goes to US companies, their suppliers and workers who make the weapons being given. Some comes back as tax revenue from these companies (or came back when they were originally purchased).

Many of the weapons would become defunct eventually and need to be replaced anyway. The US has far more weapons than it will ever use, unless there is a major global conflict (which can't be ruled out).

Of course the taxpayer is losing out, but just they are not just giving away $61 billion in cash, but mostly in existing weapons systems that were paid for years ago.

No idea how one would work out the real cost to current taxpayers, but it would be significantly below the headline number.

 

[Augustus]

Certainly not the Israelis, Palestinians, Ukrainians or Russians who die in these wars.

Many Ukrainians seem to think getting weapons is indeed preferable to capitulation and being conquered and subjugated by Russia.

Russia could also end the war today if they wanted by simply moving all of their forces out of Ukraine and back to Russia.

People don't simply think in terms of economics though. None of the above are fighting to make profits for corporations, they are mostly doing it for reasons of abstract identity and "sacred values" and the connection of these to bits of land.

 

[Revoltingest]

$61 Billion to Ukraine. The cost of war?
Think of it this way, someone is getting that $61 billion to continue the war.

Should the US be supporting the continuation of war?

Another $26 billion to Israel so the war against Iran can continue. I wonder who benefits?
Certainly not the Israelis, Palestinians, Ukrainians or Russians who die in these wars.

I see differences between those hand-outs.

Ukraine was attacked by a predatory regime that
has already announced plans to conquer more.
Ukraine's self-defense serves to dissuade Putin
from more attacks, which could save money &
lives.

But Israel is waging genocide against Palestinians.
And it has long been playing tit for tat with Iran.
This is worse than a waste of our money....we're
paying them to commit genocide. This will also
make US more hated, & subject to more violence.

Israel & Putin both seek territory. USA only benefits
from sending money to Ukraine by avoiding Putin's
further aggression. So "profit" isn't really an appropriate
term to describe these issues, since no country is selling
at a price higher than cost.

 

[Nakosis]

87 billion combined.

And the taxpayers will gain no benefit on the home front where all that money goes over there and never returns with interest.

Question I have is this a loan or a gift?

It's a payoff. To the war industry. People who benefit from nations at war.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's a payoff. To the war industry. People who benefit from nations at war.

You don't believe that it's about commitment
to the countries defend themselves (taking
their view of Israel vs Hamas, not mine)?
How so?

 

[F1fan]

$61 Billion to Ukraine. The cost of war?
Think of it this way, someone is getting that $61 billion to continue the war.

Should the US be supporting the continuation of war?

Another $26 billion to Israel so the war against Iran can continue. I wonder who benefits?
Certainly not the Israelis, Palestinians, Ukrainians or Russians who die in these wars.

Well, there's always letting the bad guys win.

 

[Nakosis]

I see differences between those hand-outs.

Ukraine was attacked by a predatory regime that
has already announced plans to conquer more.
Ukraine's self-defense serves to dissuade Putin
from more attacks, which could save money &
lives.

But Israel is waging genocide against Palestinians.
And it has long been playing tit for tat with Iran.
This is worse than a waste of our money....we're
paying them to commit genocide. This will also
make US more hated, & subject to more violence.

Israel & Putin both seek territory. USA only benefits
from sending money to Ukraine by avoiding Putin's
further aggression. So "profit" isn't really an appropriate
term to describe these issues, since no country is selling
at a price higher than cost.

The countries are spending the money. Not making a profit. So that is a red herring.

And, it is not only the weapon manufacture who profit. Oil companies profit as well.

Gas companies are capitalising on the shock
of the Russian invasion of Ukraine to weaken
regulations and push new proposals for increasing
liquefied gas imports and locking both the US and
Europe into contracts that would last for 15 to 20
years. This threatens climate goals, communities
and investors.
https://www.greenpeace.org/static/p...C1*MTcxMzkzMTM3OC4xLjAuMTcxMzkzMTM3OC4wLjAuMA..

I'm just saying there is a lot of incentive to keep the wars going. I'm sure there are plenty on the Russian side that benefit as well.

 

[Nakosis]

Well, there's always letting the bad guys win.

Or you could make war less profitable so there would be less incentive to start one.

For example, four of the past five U.S. Secretaries of Defense
came from one of the top five arms contractors”
former Trump administration secretaries of defense James Mattis (board member at
General Dynamics), Patrick Shanahan (executive at Boeing), Mark Esper (head of
government relations at Raytheon) and Biden administration defense secretary Lloyd
Austin (board member of Raytheon Technologies).
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar...of War_Hartung_Costs of War_Sept 13, 2021.pdf

 

[Nakosis]

You don't believe that it's about commitment
to the countries defend themselves (taking
their view of Israel vs Hamas, not mine)?
How so?

I'm sure it probably is at Biden's level but he has a lot of advisors with vested interests in the profit of weapons manufactures, war logistics, rebuilding after the war.

One-quarter to one-third of all Pentagon contracts in recent
years have gone to just five major weapons contractors:
Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, Raytheon, and
Northrop Grumman.”
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2021/Profits of War_Hartung_Costs of War_Sept 13, 2021.pdf

The economy doesn't benefit from war. The people don't benefit, but these 5 weapons manufactures benefit every time and they are deeply embedded in our government.

 

[Nakosis]

The coastal strip of Gaza and Israeli Occupied Palestinian sit above sizable reservoirs of oil and natural gas, which offer an opportunity to distribute and share $524 billion among different parties in the region, according to a study by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD).
The economic beneficiaries of the Israel-Hamas war

Just have to remove those pesky Palestinians in the way.

 

[Heyo]

Or you could make war less profitable so there would be less incentive to start one.

That's exactly why it is important to support Ukraine in their effort to not let Russia profit from their attack.

And, to a degree, it is also important not to support Israel, so they can't profit from their attack on Iran.

 

[Nakosis]

That's exactly why it is important to support Ukraine in their effort to not let Russia profit from their attack.

And, to a degree, it is also important not to support Israel, so they can't profit from their attack on Iran.

There never would have been a war if the Western European countries hadn't threaten to expand NATO eastward.
Eventually, there will be a compromise. Russia will gain a little bit of territory. Ukraine will lose a little territory. The war will end. Companies will switch from making money selling weapons to making money by rebuilding Ukraine. Ukraine will open itself to multinational interests, basically sell itself off.

The oligarchs on both sides will have won and ready themselves, encourage the the next conflict. Probably with China.

The Ukrainian people will have suffered a massive loss of life/infrastructure. However, we all get to feel good about how we protected democracy.

Don't worry, Israel won't profit. This was never about the people of Israel or even the country of Israel profiting. President Eisenhower warn us of the industrial military complex. The folks who always profit from war.

 

[David1967]

$61 Billion to Ukraine. The cost of war?
Think of it this way, someone is getting that $61 billion to continue the war.

Should the US be supporting the continuation of war?

Another $26 billion to Israel so the war against Iran can continue. I wonder who benefits?
Certainly not the Israelis, Palestinians, Ukrainians or Russians who die in these wars.

War is a rich man's game and a poor man's fight.

 

[Augustus]

There never would have been a war if the Western European countries hadn't threaten to expand NATO eastward.

Based on what? How do you know this?

Perhaps NATO expansion is what prevented Russia from further irredentist and revanchist wars.

War has always been an instrument of foreign policy, and the idea that the West is the only catalyst for war is not supported by any evidence.

 

[Augustus]

The coastal strip of Gaza and Israeli Occupied Palestinian sit above sizable reservoirs of oil and natural gas, which offer an opportunity to distribute and share $524 billion among different parties in the region, according to a study by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD).
The economic beneficiaries of the Israel-Hamas war

Every Western backed war from Kosovo onwards has had the same canard applied to it.

The fact that, with hindsight, the “war for oil” thesis has not been supported by the post war facts doesn’t seem to have any impact on the trope being rehashed for the next war.

 

[Nakosis]

Based on what? How do you know this?

Perhaps NATO expansion is what prevented Russia from further irredentist and revanchist wars.

War has always been an instrument of foreign policy, and the idea that the West is the only catalyst for war is not supported by any evidence.

Based on what Putin said.