The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[Porque77]

Porque77 said: ↑
Dear friends, I have studied the writings of the prophets, and I found several quotes that make me think what happened to God's Law.

The writings of the prophets tell us that God's law was changed.

The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the God's Law

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes"(Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. The Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

These verses are all pertaining to the oral traditions of Pharisees/Orthodox. The Torah is still perfect imho.

Hello, Simplelogic. That is not so. The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the God's Law, and this is wrotten in the Old testament.

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes"(Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

 

[Porque77]

Hello, Simplelogic. That is not so. The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the God's Law, and this is wrotten in the Old testament.

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes"(Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

As you can see, the God's Law was changed by the scribes. The only and truely God's Law is the JesusChrist's Law...

 

[paarsurrey]

The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

Jeremiah mentioned it clearly.

Jeremiah 8:8 (NIV)
"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/8-8.htm​

Regards

 

[RabbiO]

Hello, Simplelogic. That is not so. The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the God's Law, and this is wrotten in the Old testament.

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes"(Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

Amazing, a year and eight months after your most recent post before the current ones and you're just as ignorant as you were then.

 

[paarsurrey]

As you can see, the God's Law was changed by the scribes. The only and truely God's Law is the JesusChrist's Law...

(1)"As you can see, the God's Law was changed by the scribes"
Jewish scribes did change the Law of G-d, I agree with you at (1) above.
(2)"The only and truely God's Law is the Jesus Christ's Law..."
The Christian scribes also changed the teachings of Jesus and Moses, so (2) is not correct.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

(1)"As you can see, the God's Law was changed by the scribes"
Jewish scribes did change the Law of G-d, I agree with you at (1) above.
(2)"The only and truely God's Law is the Jesus Christ's Law..."
The Christian scribes also changed the teachings of Jesus and Moses, so (2) is not correct.
Regards

Moses did not claim to have written Genesis. Did he? If so , please quote from him.
The scribes/clergy present it as if it was written by Moses. Isn't it interfering with Torah/Law? Please
Regards

 

[Brian Schuh]

Moses did not claim to have written Genesis. Did he? If so , please quote from him.
The scribes/clergy present it as if it was written by Moses. Isn't it interfering with Torah/Law? Please
Regards

I believe Moses wrote the five books. I have an English translation of the Samaritan Pentateuch and Septuagint and have looked at passages of the five books in the Dead Sea Scrolls. There is also the Aramaic.

After noticing all the differences, then notice that they are practically the same.

The Documentary Hypothesis, the Deuteronomist compiled Genesis to 2nd Kings after the Babylonian captivity, and included other material such as the Priestly source and the Elohist and Jahwist, with redacted material. Doesn't mean there wasn't a Moses who wrote much of the five books. And also doesn't mean Moses himself didn't use material already written before the Exodus. Who is to say Moses did not write the Pentateuch at 3 different points in his life, thus 3 writing styles? I myself don't have same style now as when as teenager.

The final Tanakh was compiled by Ezra at the beginning of Israel's 2nd Commonwealth. There were at least 40 who contributed writing to the Tanakh, and Moses was the most important. What's the problem?

 

[firedragon]

I believe Moses wrote the five books. I have an English translation of the Samaritan Pentateuch and Septuagint and have looked at passages of the five books in the Dead Sea Scrolls. There is also the Aramaic.

After noticing all the differences, then notice that they are practically the same.

The Documentary Hypothesis, the Deuteronomist compiled Genesis to 2nd Kings after the Babylonian captivity, and included other material such as the Priestly source and the Elohist and Jahwist, with redacted material. Doesn't mean there wasn't a Moses who wrote much of the five books. And also doesn't mean Moses himself didn't use material already written before the Exodus. Who is to say Moses did not write the Pentateuch at 3 different points in his life, thus 3 writing styles? I myself don't have same style now as when as teenager.

The final Tanakh was compiled by Ezra at the beginning of Israel's 2nd Commonwealth. There were at least 40 who contributed writing to the Tanakh, and Moses was the most important. What's the problem?

It is commonly agreed between most bible scholars that the Pentateuch had at least four authors, or rather four schools of thought. Of course thats a hypothesis.

It is impossible for Moses to have written the Pentateuch. Moses wouldnt write in the third persons perspective the way this is written. No way.

"When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian, where he sat down by a well"

 

[Brian Schuh]

It is commonly agreed between most bible scholars that the Pentateuch had at least four authors, or rather four schools of thought. Of course thats a hypothesis.

It is impossible for Moses to have written the Pentateuch. Moses wouldnt write in the third persons perspective the way this is written. No way.

"When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian, where he sat down by a well"

Right, and by same reasoning, God didn't say all Ten Commandments. He said, " I am the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall have no other gods before me." Then the Hebrews cried out to Moses for God to shut up. Moses went up the mountain to get the law, and came back with the rest of it with God in the third person.

But there is no doubt that there was a historical person Moses who was literate. I take it on faith he received the law of God. How faithfully Bible writers and scribes passed it down to us, is up to debate. Also some of the miracles might be exaggerated. I mean, is there any doubt there was a Moses? Some claim Moses was mentioned in Egyptian history as well. Any thoughts?

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe Moses wrote the five books. I have an English translation of the Samaritan Pentateuch and Septuagint and have looked at passages of the five books in the Dead Sea Scrolls. There is also the Aramaic.

After noticing all the differences, then notice that they are practically the same.

The Documentary Hypothesis, the Deuteronomist compiled Genesis to 2nd Kings after the Babylonian captivity, and included other material such as the Priestly source and the Elohist and Jahwist, with redacted material. Doesn't mean there wasn't a Moses who wrote much of the five books. And also doesn't mean Moses himself didn't use material already written before the Exodus. Who is to say Moses did not write the Pentateuch at 3 different points in his life, thus 3 writing styles? I myself don't have same style now as when as teenager.

The final Tanakh was compiled by Ezra at the beginning of Israel's 2nd Commonwealth. There were at least 40 who contributed writing to the Tanakh, and Moses was the most important. What's the problem?

The problem is with the Judaism scribes/clergy:

1. Moses did not claim that he wrote Genesis. Did he? If he did not, then why say it was written by Moses?
2. Moses' name is not mentioned in Genesis.
3. There is no internal evidence in Genesis that it was written by Moses.

Regards

 

[Brian Schuh]

The Prophet Jeremiah saw the bloody butcher house the Temple had become, and exclaimed that they should eat the meat from sacrificed animals. I need a concordance to cite the passage.

An example of many examples of the later prophets seeing injustice in the observance of Moses. I never claimed that all the prophets were absolutely consistent.

About Genesis. It is just Hebrew folk legends about Abraham and his family. Genesis with the first 12 chapters of Exodus together is a coherent piece of literature. Tradition has it that it was dictated to Moses by God. Probably was oral tradition till someone wrote it down. I just don't know much more than that right now.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Prophet Jeremiah saw the bloody butcher house the Temple had become, and exclaimed that they should eat the meat from sacrificed animals. I need a concordance to cite the passage.
An example of many examples of the later prophets seeing injustice in the observance of Moses. I never claimed that all the prophets were absolutely consistent.
About Genesis. It is just Hebrew folk legends about Abraham and his family. Genesis with the first 12 chapters of Exodus together is a coherent piece of literature. Tradition has it that it was dictated to Moses by God. Probably was oral tradition till someone wrote it down. I just don't know much more than that right now.

Genesis is not written by Moses; so why have it bound with other books and give impression that it was written by Moses?
Regards

 

[Brian Schuh]

Genesis is not written by Moses; so why have it bound with other books and give impression that it was written by Moses?
Regards

I have Aesop's Fables here. Many people doubt there ever was a man named Aesop. But when speaking if these fables, if I don't say Aesop, no one knows what I'm saying. Same with the Law of Moses. And Bob Dylan gets credit for songs he didn't write and Bill Clinton didn't write his own autobiography. Oh well.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have Aesop's Fables here. Many people doubt there ever was a man named Aesop. But when speaking if these fables, if I don't say Aesop, no one knows what I'm saying. Same with the Law of Moses. And Bob Dylan gets credit for songs he didn't write and Bill Clinton didn't write his own autobiography. Oh well.

So, your accept that Moses did not write Genesis. Right?
Regards

 

[Brian Schuh]

So, your accept that Moses did not write Genesis. Right?
Regards

I just reviewed my principles of faith. The written Torah and oral Torah (Talmud) was through the prophecy of Moses which he received from God. This doesn't necessarily imply that Moses wrote the actual Torah. The actual books of Torah are something one can hold and memorize, the prophecy of Moses is the actual Torah and it is not tangible, not something that one can touch or memorize, it is a spiritual understanding. It is possible that this perfect prophecy suffered in the process of being written down and transmitted generation to generation to us today.

So did Moses write the Torah? Maybe not, but did the prophecy of Moses inspire the Torah? Without a doubt. And it is the spiritual understanding that is actually Torah, not some dusty old manuscript. Make sense?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I just reviewed my principles of faith. The written Torah and oral Torah (Talmud) was through the prophecy of Moses which he received from God. This doesn't necessarily imply that Moses wrote the actual Torah. The actual books of Torah are something one can hold and memorize, the prophecy of Moses is the actual Torah and it is not tangible, not something that one can touch or memorize, it is a spiritual understanding. It is possible that this perfect prophecy suffered in the process of being written down and transmitted generation to generation to us today.

So did Moses write the Torah? Maybe not, but did the prophecy of Moses inspire the Torah? Without a doubt. And it is the spiritual understanding that is actually Torah, not some dusty old manuscript. Make sense?

Just ...

... WOW!​

 

[paarsurrey]

I just reviewed my principles of faith. The written Torah and oral Torah (Talmud) was through the prophecy of Moses which he received from God. This doesn't necessarily imply that Moses wrote the actual Torah. The actual books of Torah are something one can hold and memorize, the prophecy of Moses is the actual Torah and it is not tangible, not something that one can touch or memorize, it is a spiritual understanding. It is possible that this perfect prophecy suffered in the process of being written down and transmitted generation to generation to us today.

So did Moses write the Torah? Maybe not, but did the prophecy of Moses inspire the Torah? Without a doubt. And it is the spiritual understanding that is actually Torah, not some dusty old manuscript. Make sense?

And what actually the prophecy is? Please
Regards

 

[firedragon]

Right, and by same reasoning, God didn't say all Ten Commandments. He said, " I am the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt. You shall have no other gods before me." Then the Hebrews cried out to Moses for God to shut up. Moses went up the mountain to get the law, and came back with the rest of it with God in the third person.

But there is no doubt that there was a historical person Moses who was literate. I take it on faith he received the law of God. How faithfully Bible writers and scribes passed it down to us, is up to debate. Also some of the miracles might be exaggerated. I mean, is there any doubt there was a Moses? Some claim Moses was mentioned in Egyptian history as well. Any thoughts?

Moses is not mentioned in any archeological findings dated to his supposed time. No Egyptian inscriptions mention him either. But I doubt lack of evidence is proof of nonexistence.

I believe Moses existed, he performed miracles with the finger of God. But, the argument is completely circular and does not stand for any weight with a non Muslim, because my belief is from the Quran.

You are right, scribes could have really put an effort to pass down his message to us as much as they can. We may even have an original writing of a particular line of scribes who periodically wrote the Pentateuch down for us. But it has at least 4 authors or schools of thought. Moses never wrote it. That's from a scriptural point of view.

But the Quran speaks of a revelation called Torah. We don't know if it was ever written down. There is no evidence to say aye or nay. We generally expect any scripture to claim authorship and reference. The Quran calls itself the Quran. Also it says its Gods word. The Pentateuch does not claim for authorship, nor does it claim reference. It does not call itself Torah. The name was given by someone because it is the only appropriate name since they would have definitely heard about it.

That does not mean it cannot contain any of Gods wisdom or words.

Nevertheless there are at least 4 authors to the Pentateuch. This is called the Wellhausen hypothesis. You should read up on that. Of course there are other arguments that say there are more authors. All of it born out of the non reconcilable inconsistencies. Oh there are many theories, some so viable too. But none, to show that Moses wrote it. This faith has been long deemed impossible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Moses did not claim to have written Genesis. Did he? If so , please quote from him.
The scribes/clergy present it as if it was written by Moses. Isn't it interfering with Torah/Law? Please
Regards

First of all, Moses great-grandfather Levi was the half brother of Joseph, so Levi's life may have overlapped Moses' life.
What did God say to Moses at Exodus 17:14 but to write......
What did God say to Moses at Exodus 34:27 but to write.....
What does Joshua 8:31 say but about the written Law of Moses ( Mosaic Law )
Doesn't Daniel also accept Moses as writer at Daniel 9:13
Where did Jesus start expounding but at the beginning with Moses - Luke 24:27 and at Luke 24:44

Even long before the Flood of Noah's day people built cities, made musical instruments, forged metals, and Noah had the Book of Generations by Adam - Genesis 5:1-3
So, Moses could have had access to writings that Noah preserved by having them on the Ark.

 

[Brian Schuh]

And what actually the prophecy is? Please
Regards

The five books of Moses come from the prophecy of Moses. Maybe not his words. I am coming to believe that many schools of thought went into the Tanakh. Over 40 authors contributed to the Tanakh, and many of these authors represent not individuals but schools of thought. For example, Isaiah was an individual, but his school of disciples wrote the book of Isaiah, possibly over 2 or 3 generations. I am familiar with the documentary hypothesis and plan to investigate it further. But the prophecy of Moses was taught to over a million Hebrews over 40 years. And 4 or more schools of thought wrote some of it down as the Torah, but it stemmed from the prophesying of Moses. Prophecy as in how one should live his life, not as in predicting the future. The teaching of Moses inspired the Torah.