The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[paarsurrey]

The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

Originally Posted by CMike
Actually G-D said the jews are the sons of G-D. He disagrees with you. Jesus has nothing to do with the jews. That's the christian god not the jewish one.

I think the apostle Paul would disagree with you. Was Saul not considered a "Pharisee's Pharisee" and held the law in upmost regard?

Not if he was persecuting innocent people, which apparently he was.

All the more reason to examine his conversion? What made him flip the script and become a preacher of the Gospel?

I really don't know what led to his conversion. His account may well have been a vision, and the belief back then was that dreams often were visions. Either way, either he was not that familiar with Torah or just overlooked many of the passages found within. Remember, back then, people did not have Bibles at their personal disposal.

OT Bible does state that Jews are sons of god; since Jesus was Jew so in the same sense of Bible Jesus was a son of god; no different at all.

Jews are sons of god if they do righteous deeds and acts; if Jews do evil deeds then as per Jesus (John 8:44) they are sons of the devil.

Paul faked a vision that Jesus had made him an epistle or successor of Jesus. since Paul faked the vision, he did an evil act; so from the same standard Paul is most fit to be named a son of devil as per Jesus (John 8:44); or an Anti-Christ.

Regards.

P.S. I quote here John 8:43-45

John 8:44

The Children of the Devil
…43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.…

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar

 

[Porque77]

Originally Posted by Porque77
The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the Law of God, and Jesus confirmed what the prophets said when He abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were precepts of men.

Jesus said or did, no such thing.

That's not true, because Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law of God and after abolished many commandments of the Old Testament Old Testament, and with that teaching, He showed that those commandments that He abolished, were not the true Law of God. I have already explained these things on other occasions:

Obviously. And for Christians to understand that many Old Testament laws were abolished by Jesus Christ because they were not God's Law, I write some commandments of the Old Testament that Jesus Christ abolished.

Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's Law, because Jesus did not come to abolish the Law of God. The Gospel says:

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced, commits adultery" (Matthew 5:...)

The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments. These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

"Again you have heard that it was said by them of old not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. Nevertheless I tell you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for is the footstool of his feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because you can not do a single white or black hair. But let your ' Yes, yes, no, no, because what is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were accustomed to swear in many cases, and so wrote it in the laws of the Old Testament... The Lord abolished these precepts of the oaths.

The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21: 24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.... " (Matthew 5...)

The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.

Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20: 10)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21: 9

That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8: 3-12)

With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.

 

[Porque77]

He was a Galilean Jew, fighting Hellenistic corruption in the temple. A pious Jew.

He never intended his message to be taken to his enemies. The gospel authors were far removed from his Jewish life, and what they wrote reflects only the Helleistic movement in the Diaspora.

Jesus preached the gospel not only to Jews. Jesus preached the gospel to be preached to all nations:

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned". (Mark 16:15-16)

Jesus taught the gospel to the Gentiles also:

"The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up". (Matthew 4:15-16)

 

[outhouse]

Jesus preached the gospel not only to Jews. Jesus preached the gospel to be preached to all nations:

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned". (Mark 16:15-16)

Jesus taught the gospel to the Gentiles also:

"The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up". (Matthew 4:15-16)

That is the author of a book, not jesus.


The author never heard a word jesus said, and never even laid eyes in the man.

 

[Porque77]

Originally Posted by Porque77
Jesus preached the gospel not only to Jews. Jesus preached the gospel to be preached to all nations:

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned". (Mark 16:15-16)

Jesus taught the gospel to the Gentiles also:

"The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up". (Matthew 4:15-16)

That is the author of a book, not jesus.

The author never heard a word jesus said, and never even laid eyes in the man.

That is the author of the Gospel which was preached by Jesus Christ. And Matthew was apostle and disciple of Jesus. And Jesus says so:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

 

[Porque77]

The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

OT Bible does state that Jews are sons of god

All men of good will from all nations are sons of God. And they are called to love and keep the commandments of Jesus Christ:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22).

 

[Porque77]

Jews are sons of god if they do righteous deeds and acts

All men and women of good will of all peoples of the world are sons of God. They are the ones who do good deeds, works of mercy, which is what Jesus taught in the Gospel.

Paul faked a vision that Jesus had made him an epistle or successor of Jesus. since Paul faked the vision, he did an evil act

That is not the teaching of the book of Acts of the Apostles, because this book says that Paul was friend of the apostles and faithful follower and preacher of the Gospel that Jesus preached.

In Paul's letters there are beautiful things that match perfectly with what the Gospel teaches. But there are things that contradict the Gospel. And is that Paul's letters were crooked since the first century. The apostle Peter tells us so:

" our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. Then beloved, you knowing beforehand, watch lest being led away by the error of the lawless you fall from your own steadfastness. But grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 3:15-18)

Jesus Christ gave us the true Law of God, and then the emperors of Rome, since IV century, canceled the Christ's commandments and imposed instead the letters attributed to Paul, letters that were twisted from the first century and after were manipulated by the scribes of the empire since IV century. Let's see what that letters say and what Jesus says.

The letters attributed to Paul command:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. ........... for he beareth not the sword in vain........ Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also"(Romans 13: 1-6)

But Jesus says some thing different:

"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many".

Jesus Christ did not send us to preach letters attributed to Paul. Jesus Christ commanded to preach the Gospel.

Paul's letters were long time in the hands of the scribes of the Roman Empire.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jews are sons of god if they do righteous deeds and acts; if Jews do evil deeds then as per Jesus (John 8:44) they are sons of the devil.

 

[Porque77]

Jews are sons of god if they do righteous deeds and acts

The sons of God are not only the Jews who do good deeds (people of good will). All men and women of good will of all peoples of the world are sons of God. They are the ones who do good deeds, works of mercy, which is what Jesus taught in the Gospel.

The book of Acts of the Apostles teach us that Paul was friend of the apostles and faithful follower and preacher of the Gospel that Jesus preached.

In Paul's letters there are beautiful things that match perfectly with what the Gospel teaches. But there are things that contradict the Gospel. And is that Paul's letters were crooked since the first century. The apostle Peter tells us so:

" our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. Then beloved, you knowing beforehand, watch lest being led away by the error of the lawless you fall from your own steadfastness. But grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 3:15-18)

Jesus Christ gave us the true Law of God, and then the emperors of Rome, since IV century, canceled the Christ's commandments and imposed instead the letters attributed to Paul, letters that were twisted from the first century and after were manipulated by the scribes of the empire since IV century. Let's see what that letters say and what Jesus says.

The letters attributed to Paul command:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. ........... for he beareth not the sword in vain........ Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also"(Romans 13: 1-6)

But Jesus says some thing different:

"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many".

Jesus Christ did not send us to preach letters attributed to Paul. Jesus Christ commanded to preach the Gospel.

Paul's letters were long time in the hands of the scribes of the Roman Empire.

 

[Scimitar]

That is the author of the Gospel which was preached by Jesus Christ. And Matthew was apostle and disciple of Jesus. And Jesus says so:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

Wrong Matthew, as a Christian you should investigate that properly... the Matthew who penned the book is not the same as the Matthew who was a disciple - this is controversial but true - ask any real Christian scholar. The one who penned it didn't even see Jesus, let alone know him... he was born waaay waaaay waaaaaaay later.

 

[CMike]

All men of good will from all nations are sons of God. And they are called to love and keep the commandments of Jesus Christ:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22).

That's jewish law.

Other than the last part in red.

Why doesn't the churches loaded with money sell all their assests and give it to the poor?

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by Porque77
All men of good will from all nations are sons of God. And they are called to love and keep the commandments of Jesus Christ:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22).

That's jewish law.

Other than the last part in red.

Why doesn't the churches loaded with money sell all their assests and give it to the poor?

An eight commandments out of the Ten Commandments of the Jewish Law are similar with Law of Hammurabi.

Do you think Moses copied/plagiarized/adapted these from the Law of Hammurabi?

If not; why not? Please.

Regards

 

[CMike]

An eight commandments out of the Ten Commandments of the Jewish Law are similar with Law of Hammurabi.

Do you think Moses copied/plagiarized/adapted these from the Law of Hammurabi?

If not; why not? Please.

Regards

No. They come from G-D.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by paarsurrey
An eight commandments out of the Ten Commandments of the Jewish Law are similar with Law of Hammurabi.

Do you think Moses copied/plagiarized/adapted these from the Law of Hammurabi?

If not; why not? Please.

No. They come from G-D.

Then ; how come they are the same? Please elaborate.

Regards

 

[CMike]

Then ; how come they are the same? Please elaborate.

Regards

I don't much about hammurabi law and I really don't care to.

The 613 commandments come from G-D via Moses.

 

[Scimitar]

You're acting as if Moses (peace be upon him) was the first prophet ever... come on Cmike, it may just be that hammurabi was also a prophet?

God knows the truth, but try to keep an open mind. Don't worry, your brain won't fall out

 

[paarsurrey]

You're acting as if Moses (peace be upon him) was the first prophet ever... come on Cmike, it may just be that hammurabi was also a prophet?

God knows the truth, but try to keep an open mind. Don't worry, your brain won't fall out

If Moses could receive Converse from G-d; the same way Hammurabi also could.

Regards

 

[Muffled]

Wrong Matthew, as a Christian you should investigate that properly... the Matthew who penned the book is not the same as the Matthew who was a disciple - this is controversial but true - ask any real Christian scholar. The one who penned it didn't even see Jesus, let alone know him... he was born waaay waaaay waaaaaaay later.

You were there?

 

[Muffled]

I don't much about hammurabi law and I really don't care to.

The 613 commandments come from G-D via Moses.

Oh! I believe that is so Jewish to count them. Maybe you are also keeping score on how many you have kept, lol.

 

[Muffled]

That's jewish law.

Other than the last part in red.

Why doesn't the churches loaded with money sell all their assests and give it to the poor?

I believe that is due to the fact that Jesus is not on the earth to follow physically but at times some have been called to do just that and have. You do understand that the context was a calling by Jesus don't you?