The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[metis]

the NT does not inform necessarily how I might disagree with Rabbinical Scripture configuration and interpretation.

I'm not certain what you are saying here, so could you clarify?

 

[Desert Snake]

I'm not certain what you are saying here, so could you clarify?

Sure, I'm saying that the NT, or some sort of Jesus adherence, is not necessarily the only methodology by which one would or could disagree with say, Judaism positions on religious ideas.

 

[metis]

Sure, I'm saying that the NT, or some sort of Jesus adherence, is not necessarily the only methodology by which one would or could disagree with say, Judaism positions on religious ideas.

Thanks for the clarification, and I agree.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The Prophets tell us that the Scribes had changed God's Law.

Indeed, there were false and loyal Scribes as there were false and loyal Prophets. Perhaps, if you quote some evidence for a reference, I could contribute with something.

 

[Porque77]

The laws that were changed are those that Jesus Christ annulled from the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ did not come to annul the Law of God, what He annulled was not true Law of God, they were only precepts of men.

And those laws are those that are written in the Old Testament that order to do damage and to kill the people. All these laws are contrary to the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel, and those laws were annulled by Jesus Christ because they were only precepts of men.

And we know that they are precepts of men because they are contrary to what Jesus Christ taught us when He preached the Gospel, because Jesus Christ taught us the true commandments of God and He annulled the precepts of men written in the Old Testament.

Just because you believe in Jesus and what he supposedly said doesn't mean that what you believe in is correct.

The only thing that is right is what Jesus Christ taught us when he preached the Gospel. Jesus Christ taught us the true commandments of God. Truth is demonstrated by itself, and anyone can see that the commandments of the Gospel are the truth, because they teach to live for the good of all men and women of good will..

 

[Ben Avraham]

The only thing that is right is what Jesus Christ taught us when he preached the Gospel. Jesus Christ taught us the true commandments of God. Truth is demonstrated by itself, and anyone can see that the commandments of the Gospel are the truth, because they teach to live for the good of all men and women of good will..

The only gospel that Jesus preached was from the Tanach. The NT, he never even dreamed would ever rise. So, the true commandments of God Jesus preached were according to the Law and the Prophets. (Mat. 5:17-19) Hence, he add to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[Porque77]

The only gospel that Jesus preached was from the Tanach. The NT, he never even dreamed would ever rise. So, the true commandments of God Jesus preached were according to the Law and the Prophets. (Mat. 5:17-19) Hence, he add to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

Jesus, when he preached the Gospel, taught the true commandments that were given by God to Moses, and annulled the Old Testament commandments that were only precepts of men.

 

[Porque77]

The Prophets tell us that the Scribes had changed God's Law.

Indeed, there were false and loyal Scribes as there were false and loyal Prophets. Perhaps, if you quote some evidence for a reference, I could contribute with something.

Yes of course.

We have the quotes from the prophets who tell us that the Law of God was changed by the scribes:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

And we also have the testimony of the gospel, which teaches us that Jesus abolished many of the Old Testament commandments when He self said that He had not come to abolish the Law of God. Then the Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished were not the true Law Of God, but were commandments of men..

Let's look at some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished:

In Matthew 5: 31-48 we can see how Jesus Christ abolished many Old Testament commandments, such as the law of the eye for an eye and tooth for tooth, divorce for reasons other than prostitution, oaths, hatred of enemies (make wars and kill men, women, women and children of other peoples) ...

In Matthew 12: 1-8 we can see that God does not want sacrifices, while the Old Testament tells us that God had commanded many sacrifices.

In Matthew 20: 25-28 Jesus Christ abolishes slavery (the Old Testament was laden with laws that justified slavery).

And as for the Sabbath (John 5: 8-11, John 5: 16-18), Jesus Christ abolished the cruel customs of killing those who did some work on the Sabbath, for he taught that the works Of mercy can be done on the Sabbath.

In John 8: 3-11, we can also see that Jesus Christ abolished the law that commanded kill women accused of adultery. With this teaching, Jesus Christ abolished all the laws of the old testament that commanded people to be killed for different causes.

 

[James54678]

Here is a decent codification of the law that has nothing to do with the oral Law. OFP Canon : OFP scribes : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Muffled]

No, the prophets did not say that the interpretation of the law was changed. What the prophets say is that God's Law was changed by the lying pen of the scribes. The prophets speaks of the writings of the Law, which were changed by the scribes:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us ? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8: 7-9) .

I believe there is nothing in that text that says the scribes are writing something new in the Bible and since there is an injuction against changing scripture the logical interpretation is that they were writing interpretations.

 

[Muffled]

You do not teach what the Gospel teaches. Everything what you mention to explain why was not fulfilled the law that commanded to be stoned that woman are just excuses that do not conform to the Gospel, because what Jesus said is this:

'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11).

I believe Jesus did not change the law. He recognized that the woman should be stoned, However Jesus does expect the law to be justifiably executed. Also it is possible for God to forgive this sin and since He is without sin He has the right to do so.

 

[Muffled]

The laws that were changed are those that Jesus Christ annulled from the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ did not come to annul the Law of God, what He annulled was not true Law of God, they were only precepts of men.

And those laws are those that are written in the Old Testament that order to do damage and to kill the people. All these laws are contrary to the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel, and those laws were annulled by Jesus Christ because they were only precepts of men.

And we know that they are precepts of men because they are contrary to what Jesus Christ taught us when He preached the Gospel, because Jesus Christ taught us the true commandments of God and He annulled the precepts of men written in the Old Testament.

I believe you are in error thinking that annulment is due to error. The law is temporal and is good for the time and purpose it serves and can be annulled if it loses its validity in another time and circumstance. I believe that is sometimes called dispensationalism.

I believe the precepts of men were written in the Talmud as interpretations but were never in the Bible.

 

[metis]

The law is temporal and is good for the time and purpose it serves and can be annulled if it loses its validity in another time and circumstance.

The Torah and Tanakh clearly state that the Law is "forever" and "perpetual", and that anyone who says otherwise is a "false prophet".

 

[Porque77]

Just because you believe in Jesus and what he supposedly said doesn't mean that what you believe in is correct.

What I believe is what the Gospel teaches. And the Gospel is the only correct teaching for the good of all men and women of good will, because it teaches love, mercy, forgiveness and sharing of goods so that there are neither rich nor poor but equality among all men.

 

[Porque77]

I believe Jesus did not change the law. He recognized that the woman should be stoned, However Jesus does expect the law to be justifiably executed. Also it is possible for God to forgive this sin and since He is without sin He has the right to do so.

The Gospel does not teach what you say. Jesus said that the one who is without sin, be the first to throw the stone against her. And with these words, Jesus taught men that no one must kill other men because all men are sinners. Then, Then, there is no possible justification. No one must kill other men because all men are sinners.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The Gospel does not teach what you say. Jesus said that the one who is without sin, be the first to throw the stone against her. And with these words, Jesus taught men that no one must kill other men because all men are sinners. Then, Then, there is no possible justification. No one must kill other men because all men are sinners.

Jesus never faced the situation that a woman was about to be stoned to death for having committed adultery. The condemnation of a woman who had committed adultery would never happened the way the NT gospel depicts. It was a plagiarism of the instructions in case a woman was suspected to have committed adultery. A case in Israel never actually happened. The instructions had been given as warrant to prevent the case from happening. When a married man would suspect that his wife had committed adultery, the process would be timing consuming to gather enough evidences to prove the husband's suspicion.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Jesus, when he preached the Gospel, taught the true commandments that were given by God to Moses, and annulled the Old Testament commandments that were only precepts of men.

Well Porque, would you be so kind as to provide me with some quotes to evidence your claim that Jesus annulled the OT commandments that were only precepts of men? When Jesus said to listen to "Moses" aka the Law, his reference was to the Decalogue. Any other commandments which you consider precepts of men were commandments for the Jews, not for the Gentiles. So, you have nothing to worry about unless you convert to Judaism according to Halacha. (Isaiah 56:1-8) Therefore, you have no business criticizing the oral law given to the Jews by Moses.

 

[Muffled]

The Torah and Tanakh clearly state that the Law is "forever" and "perpetual", and that anyone who says otherwise is a "false prophet".

I believe you lack understanding of what that means. The law is still there as history and history always exists forever. I have never seen a statement that says the law is perpetual which would mean in force.

I believe the false prophets are the ones who think that God is dead and the law has taken His place.

 

[Muffled]

What I believe is what the Gospel teaches. And the Gospel is the only correct teaching for the good of all men and women of good will, because it teaches love, mercy, forgiveness and sharing of goods so that there are neither rich nor poor but equality among all men.

I believe that is not the Gospel of Jesus or of Paul so it must be the gospel of Porque although the last part sounds like the gospel of Marx.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus never faced the situation that a woman was about to be stoned to death for having committed adultery. The condemnation of a woman who had committed adultery would never happened the way the NT gospel depicts. It was a plagiarism of the instructions in case a woman was suspected to have committed adultery. A case in Israel never actually happened. The instructions had been given as warrant to prevent the case from happening. When a married man would suspect that his wife had committed adultery, the process would be timing consuming to gather enough evidences to prove the husband's suspicion.

I believe there was no need for suspicion since they were caught in the act.