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The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW
- Thread starter Porque77
- Start date
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
But the question is, who were those Scribes that tampered with the scriptures ?
Some will say, they are the Scribes of Israel, Nope that's wrong. They are not of Israel. Even though they got mix in with Israel, they are not of Israel.
What saith the Scriptures, "They are not all Israel,which are of Israel"
What was the one thing that lead Jeremiah the Prophet to find out, what those false scribes were doing ?
So how much do you really know in and about the bible ?
Some will say, they are the Scribes of Israel, Nope that's wrong. They are not of Israel. Even though they got mix in with Israel, they are not of Israel.
What saith the Scriptures, "They are not all Israel,which are of Israel"
What was the one thing that lead Jeremiah the Prophet to find out, what those false scribes were doing ?
So how much do you really know in and about the bible ?
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Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
- God had not commanded sacrifices, because He did not want sacrifices. But in the scriptures there are written many sacrificial commandments because the Law of God was changed by the scribes, as the prophet Jeremiah tells us:
Israel also changed the Law of God, as Ezekiel tells us:
"Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her. And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them. (Eze 5:5-6)
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
The Gospel teaches us the true Law of God and the Prophets, which was revealed to us by Jesus Christ. Do you understand?
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)
Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law
"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22
These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many commandments of the Old Testament commanded death sentences, wars and slavery. And those commandments weren't really God's Law.
These commandmets of death sentences, wars and slavery aren't God's commandments.
Then, you must be careful with the scriptures, because Jesus Christ preached us the true God's Law, but Roma's emperors (emperor Constantine, IV century) don't wanted the Gospel's Law and they imposed the Old Testament's laws saying these laws were God's commandments. Since then, the Gospel's Law was unknown to the christian people as the only God's Law and the God's true Law
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
I don't understand as to where your going on all of this.
But there is only Ten commandments of God, Theres no where in those
Ten commandments that says anything about a death sentence.
Jesus taught the law of kingdom of heaven and the Ten commandment law.
That's the only two laws that Jesus taught about.
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
When I mention death sentences I mean many commandments many commandments written in many parts of the Old Testament that ordered men to apply death sentences and make wars.
But about slavery, in the "ten commandments" of Exodus, there are commandments that allow men to have slaves. Jesus did not teach the commandments that are written in the ten commandments of the Old Testament that allow to have slaves.
The Ten Commandments of the Old Testament are not equal to the commandments that teach us in the gospel, there are big differences. I'll give an example: The Old Testament tells us:
"Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labor, and shalt do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt not do any work therein, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maid, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, neither any of thy cattle, nor the stranger that is within thy gates: that thy manservant and thy maid may rest as well as thou". (Deut. 5: 12-15).
On the contrary, the Gospel tells us:
"Jesus said unto him, Rise: take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and the same day was the Sabbath. The Jews therefore said to him that was made whole, It is the Sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole he said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk" (John 5: 8-11)
"And therefore the Jews did persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the Sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him: not only because he had broken the Sabbath: but said also that God was his Father, and made himself equal with God"(John 5: 16-18)
Jesus did not respected and not fulfilled those laws about the Sabbath written in the Ten Commandments the Old Testament, and it is because Jesus Christ was God and those Old Testament laws were not God's law.
Commanded God that men were slaves of other men?
The 10 Commandments of the Old Testament's laws, about slaves, also say:
"Thou shalt not desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field or his manslave or his maidslave, his ox, or his ***, or any thing that is thy neighbour's" (Deutoro. 5: 21).
This commandment is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospel. Jesus Christ said to a man who had great wealth:
"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go, sell that thou hast, and give it to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, and follow me" (Matthew 19: 16-22)
According to the Old Testament commandment, I should not desire anything from my neighbor although I do not have anything, and my neighbor can wish all things what have their neighbors, and even their lives, taking them as slaves ... This commandment is a contradiction in itself and completely contradicts what Jesus says in the Gospel: "You will love your neighbor as yourself".
Is not equal say to those living in poverty they not should desire anything from those with great wealth than tell those who have great wealth sell all what they have and give all what they have to the poor. And this is the great difference between the commandments of the Old Testament and the commandments of the Gospel.
If I should not desire anything that belongs to my neighbor (as says the tenth commandment of Jewish law), then my neighbor should not wish to have his neighbor as slave, BECAUSE HE WANT TO REMOVE THE FREEDOM TO HIM... And freedom is a treasure that belongs to every man, then we remove a great treasure that belongs to him (freedom).
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Yes. The Hebrew Bible contains many views of many people from many time periods. And the New Testament uses various verses and passages from the Hebrew Bible to support their claims. The Bible is not a monolithic teaching but, rather, a scattered chaotic collection of stories.
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
With regard to what is written in the bibles, you must bear in mind that the Law that truly was given to Moses is the Law that Jesus teaches in the Gospel, and it was given forever and for all peoples.
But in the Old Testament there are many precepts of men. And nobody, neither Jews nor Greeks, nor Gentiles, nor any people of the world, is under the precepts of men written in the Old Testament.
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
Shaul, if you do not want to see stuff and nonsense, examine what I remember next:
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
Jeremiah saw that they had changed the Law of God into a lie.
A GREAT CONFUSION APPEARED IN THE WORLD since the fourth century (Emperor Constantine).
In the fourth century, the emperors of Rome, who had never wanted the commandments of the Gospel, were those who imposed the belief that all commandments of the Old Testament that ordered punishment of death, sacrifice and slavery, were the commandments of God. Jesus had abolished all those commandments of death and slavery, and the powerful and greedy men reimposed these commandments saying that were "commandments of God."
The greed of the emperors of Rome was against the Gospel, because the Gospel commanded the rich to allocate their assets among the poor... And Jesus told his disciples not to do as the rulers of nations, whom despotically ruled over others. Jesus came not to be served but to serve:
Jesus called them and said to them, "You know that the rulers of the nations are tyrannizing them and that the great ones oppress them with their might, among you it must not be so, but if any of you wants to be great, be your servant; and whoever wants to be first, be the servant of all, in the same way that the son of man has not come to be served, but to serve and give his life for the liberation of all" (Matthew 20: 25-28)
The emperors of Rome never wanted the commandments of the Gospel. So, in the fourth century, they abandoned the commandments of the Gospel and reimposed Old Testament laws to enslave the nations.
And this is the confusion that many religions have lived since the fourth century (Emperor Constantine and his successors). Then, other religions have appeared imposed by the warlords who have also called "commandments of God" to the laws of death and slavery of the Old Testament. And this has led to great confusion in the world and has made the world does not follow the commandments of the Gospel.
And is that the emperors of Rome wanted be worshiped and to live with great riches, and for this reason imposed their religions and laws unto the world.
Since then, the world has experienced major wars and inquisitions, until finally the world came to the two world wars that terrorized the world.
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Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
In the bibles there are written many commandments that do not contemplate the mercy that Jesus taught us. The Gospel is very different, because it teaches us love, mercy, forgiveness and sharing of goods so that there is no inequality among men.
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
I believe in the Gospel. And what the Gospel teaches is right, because it teaches love, mercy, forgiveness and the distribution of goods so that there are no rich while others are poor
The Gospel teaches that Jesus Christ abolished many Old Testament commandments. And that teaches us that those commandments abolished by Jesus were not true Law of God but precepts of men, because Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the Law of God, but to make it fully known.
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Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ said in Matthew 5:17--- "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil"
Many people believe and are taught that the law Jesus is talking about in the verse above is the Ten Commandment law.
The Ten Commandment law is not the law that Jesus is in the reference to.
In Matthew 5:19, Jesus said ---"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments"
What least commandments, The ones Jesus just gave back in Verse's 1 thru 16.
Verse's 1 thru 16 is the law that Jesus is in reference to, back in Verse 17
Verse's 1 thru 16, are the law of the kingdom of heaven. ( Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments)
Many people believe and are taught that the law Jesus is talking about in the verse above is the Ten Commandment law.
The Ten Commandment law is not the law that Jesus is in the reference to.
In Matthew 5:19, Jesus said ---"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments"
What least commandments, The ones Jesus just gave back in Verse's 1 thru 16.
Verse's 1 thru 16 is the law that Jesus is in reference to, back in Verse 17
Verse's 1 thru 16, are the law of the kingdom of heaven. ( Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments)
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
That's true, however since I'm not converting from Judaism, it's almost moot, except for some common sense rules.
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
The Law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel
The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.
The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .
In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.
The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:
"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .
Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.
Now I also remember the Law of Jesus Christ expressed in commandments, as the Gospel teaches:
"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22
And this law and these commandments are in effect for all peoples.
However, no one is under the laws of the Old Testament that were abolished by Jesus Christ, because those laws were not true Law of God, but precepts of men. We are all under the Law and the commandments of Christ, which are the only true Law of God.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
The law which Christ Jesus is referring to in Matthew 5:17-19, is not the old testament law nor the gospel law.
The law in which Christ Jesus is referring to in Matthew 5:17-19. Is the law of the kingdom of heaven.
If you read from Verse 1 all the way down to Verse 19, then in Verse 19 Jesus said
( Whosever therefore shall break one of these lease commandments)
What lease commandments, The ones Jesus just gave back in Verse's 3-16 , those being the law of the kingdom of heaven.
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
In Matthew 5:17 Jesus says that He did not come to abolish the Law and the prophets, and this Law is what Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel, because He Himself tells us that the Law and the foreheads is this:
"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Can you show in Matthew Chapter 5, where it says this what your saying.
Yes in Matthew 5:17 Jesus did say, that he has not come to destroy the law or the prophets.
Now explain exactly what law Jesus is referring to in Matthew 5:1-16 ?
Porque77
The Gospel is God's Law
I have already said it in the answer you have quoted. To help you understand things better, read this too:
Nothing has been abolished from the true Law that was given by God to Moses, and the true Law that was given to Moses are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. But from the Old Testament law many commandments have been abolished because they were not true commandments of God, but of men. Let's see some of the commandments of the old testament abolished by Jesus Christ:
The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)
The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21:24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you...." (Matthew 5...)
The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.
Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:
"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20:10)
"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21:9)
That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:
"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8:3-12)
With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.
ABOUT THE SHABBAT'S LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT
Says the Old Testament:
"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)
That's not what Jesus commanded us:
"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did when he and those with him were hungry, how he entered the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful to eat neither he nor those who were with him, but only for the priests ? or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? for I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)
"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.........
And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)
JESUS DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW. BUT, WHAT LAW?
Jesus broke the Sabbath and abolished many other Old Testament commandments. So which is the Law which will not pass one jot or tittle (Matthew 5: 18-19)?
When Jesus said that He had not come to abolish the law of God, many misinterpret it and say that Jesus did not come to abolish the law of the Old Testament. But that is a mistake, because Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, and we can see it clearly in the quotes I put of the Gospel.
Of the commandments of the Gospel, which are the true Law that God gave to Moses, no one jot no one tittle will pass. But the law of the Old Testament, all what Jesus Christ abolished, already passed, because they were only human regulations.
And it is that the true Law of God had been changed by the scribes, as Jeremiah tells us
"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)
And Jesus Christ revealed to us in the Gospel the commandments that were really given by God.