The purposeful vagueness of scriptures.

[Link]

Sure.

How can I confirm that the source of this power is a god, independently of what you (or any other believer) reports being able to easily see?

If it's not contested, it's the reasonable conclusion.

 

[Link]

Say it was an evil being, where are the good beings to contest it? If a Prophet performs miracles, it shows he is a not a liar and truthful and that his power is to be seen to be from where he claims to get it.

 

[ppp]

If it's not contested, it's the reasonable conclusion.

I don't believe you know, or are capable of knowing that it is true. By your reasoning, that makes it not a reasonable conclusion.

 

[Link]

I don't believe you know, or are capable of knowing that it is true. By your reasoning, that makes it not a reasonable conclusion.

I think logic shows if there was not one absolute being, there would be no moral principle guiding the world. In this case, if there were many gods and no absolute source, and one of them had this power, we would expect that others of other beings with similar power contest such "signs" and "miracles", right?

 

[ppp]

Say it was an evil being, where are the good beings to contest it?

No. I will not say that. I reject your claim that you have grounds to say there is a god-type being, irrespective of evilness or goodness.

 

[Link]

No. I will not say that. I reject your claim that you have grounds to say there is a god-type being, irrespective of evilness or goodness.

So where is the power to split the moon and put it back together and keep all the world and seas in the same way without disrupting anything coming from?

 

[ppp]

I think logic shows...

I get that you think that. Yet every time you try, you fail to articulate the necessary connection between the effect and cause. You just assume that your god is the cause, then try to hide that assumption behind it's "easy to see".

I believe that there are thinking agents that are the product of the universe. Such as the ones we find on this planet. I do not believe that the universe is the product of one or more thinking agents.

 

[ppp]

So where is the power to split the moon and put it back together and keep all the world and seas in the same way without disrupting anything coming from?

Even if it had happened, which I do not believe, that is not my problem. My not knowing would in no way indicate that you do know.

 

[Link]

Even if it had happened, which I do not believe, that is not my problem. My not knowing would in no way indicate that you do know.

I can see why scriptures are vague to you. Obtuse people tend to have clear insights and signs go past them.

 

[ppp]

I can see why scriptures are vague to you. Obtuse people tend to have clear insights and signs go past them.

Yep. I am a big dumb-dumb. But you still have not delivered a sound logical argument for your position. "Easy to see" is not a logically supporting premise.

 

[Link]

Yep. I am a big dumb-dumb. But you still have not delivered a sound logical argument for your position. "Easy to see" is not a logically supporting premise.

When clear insights are given and rational is given, a person can accept or deny. At this point, I can't do much to make you acknowledge, it's up to you.

 

[ppp]

When clear insights are given and rational is given, a person can accept or deny. At this point, I can't do much to make you acknowledge, it's up to you.

As soon as you produce a sound argument, I will evaluate it. But as long as you depend on little more than praising yourself, you have nothing to offer me.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Prophecies/scriptures are purposefully vague which allow for/create a wide range of interpretations.

I am not sure that is true. The scriptures were written when people did not understand the scientific method or how to write something with logical rigor. That is why most of them sound vague or even out of context. People in Jesus's time probably understood what Jesus meant when he talked about the fig tree. But I have a lot of difficulty deciphering the meaning.

 

[danieldemol]

Christ, Muhammad and Baha’u’llah all defended independent thought and promoted love and unity.

Was that what the Baha'i dogmatic Muhammad was doing when he subjugated the Banu Qurayza (1)? Or was that what the Bab was doing when he ordered "the burning of books and the killing of people, and the prohibition of fellowship" and "things even more grievous"(2)?

1,2 Baha’u’llah’s “Tablet of the Banu Qurayza”

 

[idea]

I am not sure that is true. The scriptures were written when people did not understand the scientific method or how to write something with logical rigor. That is why most of them sound vague or even out of context. People in Jesus's time probably understood what Jesus meant when he talked about the fig tree. But I have a lot of difficulty deciphering the meaning.

The first versions were written when most people were illiterate, without access to books - no printing press etc. Texts were copied and studied primarily by the ruling class who were interested in intimidation and control. Shamans, oracles, rabbis, vs. Kings - a power grab between the influencers, each recording/using ideas that preserved control.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am not sure that is true. The scriptures were written when people did not understand the scientific method or how to write something with logical rigor. That is why most of them sound vague or even out of context. People in Jesus's time probably understood what Jesus meant when he talked about the fig tree. But I have a lot of difficulty deciphering the meaning.

Poor Jesus wasn't very bright with that fig tree. I can't imagine what people in their time even would have thought about a guy running to a fig tree demanding a fig out of season of which the tree obviously couldn't provide.

I probably would have gone with a more sensible parable then that one.

 

[Audie]

Due to the many different interpretations of scriptures by scholars who all spend their entire lives studying them.

Consensus = clear.
Diverse interpretations = vague/ambiguous.

There long was consensus on flood and geocentrism.

 

[Audie]

I think logic shows if there was not one absolute being, there would be no moral principle guiding the world. In this case, if there were many gods and no absolute source, and one of them had this power, we would expect that others of other beings with similar power contest such "signs" and "miracles", right?

We dont doubt you think that your logic
works, and. it does work to convince you.

Others here, who are not stupid or illogical
disagree because we see the glaring flaws-
not the least of which is retrofitting " logic "
to support your presuppositions.

 

[idea]

There long was consensus on flood and geocentrism.

Clear vs correct.

I agree consensus is no guarantee of truth, but reproducible experimental results do help.

 

[idea]

Poor Jesus wasn't very bright with that fig tree. I can't imagine what people in their time even would have thought about a guy running to a fig tree demanding a fig out of season of which the tree obviously couldn't provide.

I probably would have gone with a more sensible parable then that one.

Out of season, or too young.

"Most fig trees take three to five years to start ripening fruit. Prior to that, figs may form along stems where each leaf attaches, but they won't ripen." How to Plant, Grow and Care for a Fig Tree

I do like Aesop's fables, and fables in general. When no one tries to read it as true, the true lessons are easier to understand.