The purposeful vagueness of scriptures.

[ppp]

Which verses are you specifically referring to. The Bible is a very large Book?

It is a large book. And I gave you specific references that were (and are) easy to Google. Yet you chose not to do so. You chose (instead) to fuss at me for citing the laws and traditions of a book I am beginning to suspect that you have never read.

Have you personally taken the time to sit down and read the Bible, @loverofhumanity?

 

[ppp]

On another point I fully agree that the churches

I am talking about the text of the Bible. Not the actions of the Christians who belonged to churches after the timeframe of the Bible.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am talking about the text of the Bible. Not the actions of the Christians who belonged to churches after the timeframe of the Bible.

ok but I’m not googling quotes for your post. Thats your job to reference your own work not mine.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is a large book. And I gave you specific references that were (and are) easy to Google. Yet you chose not to do so. You chose (instead) to fuss at me for citing the laws and traditions of a book I am beginning to suspect that you have never read.

Have you personally taken the time to sit down and read the Bible, @loverofhumanity?

It’s your post not mine so you need to provide references not me. Then we can explore the claims by looking at the verses in context not just isolated verses but the entire picture.

 

[ppp]

ok but I’m not googling quotes for your post. Thats your job to reference your own work not mine.

I agree. It is absolutely not your job to take home work from me. I did not, and am not asking you to do so.

What I am saying is that you, @loverofhumanity, are making claims about the contents of the Bible while you are ignorant of the contents of the Bible.

 

[blü 2]

Prophecies/scriptures are purposefully vague which allow for/create a wide range of interpretations. People find meaning in the interpretations that fit their experiences, reinforcing a belief in the legitimacy of various different dogmas. Ambiguity leads to self-fulfilling prophecies as individuals and societies shape their actions based on their understanding of the prophecies, influencing outcomes to match their expectations.


If viewpoints change to recognize the non-literal personal and subjective nature of contemplating/studying scriptures, use spiritual texts for personal exploration of one's own inner thoughts rather than thinking one interpretation applies to everyone, religious texts could be helpful.

How many here enjoy the study of scriptures, hold their own personal interpretations of the text, and see those interpretations as personal - not universal.

Can you lay out what you consider to be some examples of your claim?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree. It is absolutely not your job to take home work from me. I did not, and am not asking you to do so.

What I am saying is that you, @loverofhumanity, are making claims about the contents of the Bible while you are ignorant of the contents of the Bible.

The reason I requested quotes is to establish the context and story.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Humanism does.

I don't know about all religions, but Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are violent religions notwithstanding giving lip service to peace and love. Saying to love one another does not constitute teaching just as it didn't in the example I gave you of a mother saying the same to fighting kids. Typically, these religions (and yours, Baha'i) essentially say to be good, which accomplishes nothing, and then blames humanity for that message being ineffective. Haven't you written things such as that if everybody would just heed Baha'u'llah's advice, we would have world peace, and then commenting on how man fails to be moved by these admonitions?

What stands out about humanism is that it actually does teach love and tolerance by example. While the major religions are causing mayhem in the States and the Middle East, humanism quietly plods ahead making life better for the greatest number where it is allowed to. The Christians claim to love sinner while hating the sin, but it's just hatred. Meantime, in the States, humanist values are attempting to promote love and tolerance for LGBTQ+. Christian nationalists are historical revisionists trying to hide history teaching their treatment of slaves while instituting their intolerance for women's reproductive rights based in their religious beliefs in a supposedly secular government.

So, no to these religions teaching or doing anything helpful.

People cannot be forced to be good. All the Prophets and holy books do is appeal to the nobler nature within but in the end it’s up to each individual whether it be Buddhism, Islam or humanism.

 

[ppp]

The reason I requested quotes is to establish the context and story.

Have you read the Bible?

 

[idea]

Can you lay out what you consider to be some examples of your claim?

This entire forum and all the posts in it testify to the vague nature of scriptures. From establishing authority and ordinances to the nature of god...

nesis 1:26-27 (Creation of Humans): Various religious groups interpret the creation story differently, some emphasizing a literal interpretation, while others see it as symbolic.

1. Matthew 16:18 (Peter as the Rock): The Catholic Church sees this as the basis for the papacy, while other Christian denominations interpret it differently regarding the authority of Peter.
2. Quran 4:157 (Crucifixion of Jesus): Different Islamic sects interpret this verse differently, with some denying the crucifixion and others interpreting it metaphorically.
3. Bhagavad Gita 2:47 (Duty without attachment): Hindu sects may interpret the concept of performing duties without attachment in different ways, ranging from a focus on selfless service to detachment from worldly desires.
4. Sutta Pitaka (Teachings of Buddha): Various Buddhist traditions may interpret the sutras differently, leading to different practices and emphasis on certain teachings.
5. Exodus 20:8-11 (Sabbath): Interpretations of Sabbath observance vary among Jewish denominations and Christian groups, influencing their practices and beliefs about the day of rest.

 

[blü 2]

This entire forum and all the posts in it testify to the vague nature of scriptures. From establishing authority and ordinances to the nature of god...

nesis 1:26-27 (Creation of Humans): Various religious groups interpret the creation story differently, some emphasizing a literal interpretation, while others see it as symbolic.

1. Matthew 16:18 (Peter as the Rock): The Catholic Church sees this as the basis for the papacy, while other Christian denominations interpret it differently regarding the authority of Peter.
2. Quran 4:157 (Crucifixion of Jesus): Different Islamic sects interpret this verse differently, with some denying the crucifixion and others interpreting it metaphorically.
3. Bhagavad Gita 2:47 (Duty without attachment): Hindu sects may interpret the concept of performing duties without attachment in different ways, ranging from a focus on selfless service to detachment from worldly desires.
4. Sutta Pitaka (Teachings of Buddha): Various Buddhist traditions may interpret the sutras differently, leading to different practices and emphasis on certain teachings.
5. Exodus 20:8-11 (Sabbath): Interpretations of Sabbath observance vary among Jewish denominations and Christian groups, influencing their practices and beliefs about the day of rest.

Sorry if I was unclear ─ I was looking for examples of prophecies such as you mentioned.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Have you read the Bible?

This thread is about the vagueness of scripture yet you provide none only an opinion with no citations or references. The point of discussion is Biblical references so in order to discuss whether they are vague or not I need a citation not just an opinion.

 

[ppp]

This thread is about the vagueness of scripture yet you provide none only an opinion with no citations or references. The point of discussion is Biblical references so in order to discuss whether they are vague or not I need a citation not just an opinion.

The question was, Have you read the Bible, @loverofhumanity? If you are unwilling or unable to provide a direct honest response to a direct honest question then just say so.

 

[idea]

Sorry if I was unclear ─ I was looking for examples of prophecies such as you mentioned.

Perhaps you can share a prophecy that is clear?

- some examples

1. "The lion shall lie down with the lamb."
2. "A star shall rise out of Jacob."
3. "The meek shall inherit the earth."
4. "The river of life will flow from the throne of God."
5. "The abomination of desolation shall stand in the holy place."
6. "He will come like a thief in the night."
7. "The seven seals shall be opened."
8. "The moon shall turn to blood."
9. "A great eagle shall fly over the earth."
10. "The beast with seven heads and ten horns shall rise from the sea."

All of revelations...


Quran -

1. "And the heaven will split asunder, for that Day it will be frail."
2. "The sun and the moon [move] by precise calculation."
3. "When the stars lose their light."
4. "And the mountains will pass on, departing."
5. "When the sky breaks apart."
6. "The Day the heaven will sway with circular motion."
7. "And when the seas are erupted."
8. "And when the books are spread."
9. "And when the souls are paired."
10. "And when the girl [who was] buried alive is asked."

etc.

It's all symbolic, parables, ambiguous, good for personal exploration of one's own thoughts, like a Rorschach test -a psychological tool for exploring perceptions, but no information beyond personal thoughts.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The question was, Have you read the Bible, @loverofhumanity? If you are unwilling or unable to provide a direct honest response to a direct honest question then just say so.

This has nothing to do with my having read or not read the Bible. It has to do with you providing quotes for statements you claim come from the Bible which you have failed to do. If you cannot provide quotes then I can only assume you have made up those things up as you have no Biblical proof to back up your statements of things such as institutional genocide.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The question was, Have you read the Bible, @loverofhumanity? If you are unwilling or unable to provide a direct honest response to a direct honest question then just say so.

This has nothing to do with my having read or not read the Bible. It has to do with you providing quotes for statements you claim come from the Bible which you have failed to do. If you cannot provide quotes then I can only assume you have made up those things as you have provided no Biblical proof to back up your statements of things such as institutional genocide.

 

[ppp]

This has nothing to do with my having read or not read the Bible

You claimed:

All the major religions holy books teach not to kill or harm so those who do so it is their choice.

If you have not read the Bible, then you are making statements about the contents of the Bible in ignorance.

Have you read the Bible, or are you making statements about the Bible in ignorance?

 

[blü 2]

Perhaps you can share a prophecy that is clear?

- some examples

1. "The lion shall lie down with the lamb."
2. "A star shall rise out of Jacob."
3. "The meek shall inherit the earth."
4. "The river of life will flow from the throne of God."
5. "The abomination of desolation shall stand in the holy place."
6. "He will come like a thief in the night."
7. "The seven seals shall be opened."
8. "The moon shall turn to blood."
9. "A great eagle shall fly over the earth."
10. "The beast with seven heads and ten horns shall rise from the sea."

All of revelations...


Quran -

1. "And the heaven will split asunder, for that Day it will be frail."
2. "The sun and the moon [move] by precise calculation."
3. "When the stars lose their light."
4. "And the mountains will pass on, departing."
5. "When the sky breaks apart."
6. "The Day the heaven will sway with circular motion."
7. "And when the seas are erupted."
8. "And when the books are spread."
9. "And when the souls are paired."
10. "And when the girl [who was] buried alive is asked."

etc.

It's all symbolic, parables, ambiguous, good for personal exploration of one's own thoughts, like a Rorschach test -a psychological tool for exploring perceptions, but no information beyond personal thoughts.

And free of usable information, yes ─ which all goes to show that the actual purpose of prophecy is political.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You claimed:

If you have not read the Bible, then you are making statements about the contents of the Bible in ignorance.

Have you read the Bible, or are you making statements about the Bible in ignorance?

These are a very tiny number of many quotes supporting love and harmony. But if women are being raped and people butchered then they must be protected. War is not forbidden in the Bible for a just cause such as the Hamas equivalent of the Amalekites constantly attacking the Jews. And there is also the fact that God can choose to punish us if He so desires for our perverse doings.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Exodus 20:13

Thou shalt not kill.

Matthew 5:9

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

1John 4:20

Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

 

[ppp]

These are a very tiny number of many quotes supporting love and harmony.

You haven't read the Bible.