The Random, Meaningless Political post thread

[Revoltingest]

A person would never confess to a murder, unless they did do it.
Nobody would do that.

Oh, such naivete.
Italy should be glad that you're neither, cop nor judge.
To have learned law, but not human psychology is a dangerous combination.
And worse, cops know neither law nor psychology.

More cases for you...

3 Detectives Obtained a False Murder Confession. Was It One of Dozens? (Published 2021)

Huwe Burton was wrongly convicted because of deceptive interrogation techniques. How many more cases were “solved” the same way?

www.nytimes.com

10 Wrongful Convictions Based On False Confessions - Listverse

The Netflix documentary series Making a Murderer has recently brought a great deal of attention to the controversial 2005 murder conviction of Steven

listverse.com

People Can Be Convinced They Committed a Crime That Never Happened

Lab-based research shows that adults can be convinced, over the course of a few hours, that as teens they perpetrated crimes that never actually occurred.

www.psychologicalscience.org

 

[Stevicus]

I am thinking of a particular case, right now.
A terrible massacre taken place not that far from Milan, in a provincial town. Erba massacre | Mattia Vacca Photojournalist

A person would never confess to a murder, unless they did do it.
Nobody would do that.

I can see where it could happen, though. A coerced confession would be inadmissible, but it still could be conceivably done anyway. I don't think a confession, just by itself, should be enough to convict someone.

 

[Estro Felino]

Oh, such naivete.
Italy should be glad that you're neither, cop nor judge.

I am one of the greatest defenders of Knox and Sollecito's innocence in my country, despite the witch-hunt against these two poor Christs hasn't ended yet. By the American and the Italian media.

Those two never confessed to that murder. Because they were innocent. Despite all the unspeakable things they did to them to induce them to confess (just read Knox' book, if you're interested).
That's the evidence that innocent people don't confess.

And thank God, justice has been done. The two cops were sentenced to jail. Perugia, condannata l'ex capo della omicidi Napoleoni e altri cinque - Umbria 24

Please...don't throw me in the same boiling pot.
I worship Truth, and Justice.

 

[Estro Felino]

I can see where it could happen, though. A coerced confession would be inadmissible, but it still could be conceivably done anyway. I don't think a confession, just by itself, should be enough to convict someone.

If there is torture involved, of course. Induced confessions arise.
But the era of the Spanish Inquisition is over.

 

[Revoltingest]

Please...don't throw me in the same boiling pot.
I worship Truth, and Justice.

To pursue justice requires understanding
human behavior in the justice system,
including accused, accuser, enforcers, &
judges.
Study the failures & their causes.
Prohibit tools that cause false confessions.

 

[Estro Felino]

To pursue justice requires understanding
human behavior in the justice system,
including accused, accuser, enforcers, &
judges.
Study the failures & their causes.
Prohibit tools that cause false confessions.

I will read those articles you posted. Attentively.
I already know that the US law enforcement is absolutely terrifying, because police officers are known to plant evidence, to blackmail and threaten suspects. I do know that. This does increase the risk of induced confessions.

Here there is a principle (I don't know how to translate it in English) called guaranteesm. Garantismo - Wikipedia
Means: to guarantee suspects all rights possible. It goes even further than the presumption of innocence.
Our code of penal procedure is based upon guaranteesm.

The code is there. If cops and procurators don't respect it, they will be held accountable.

 

[Stevicus]

The best thing would be to make those who prosecute
or sue to pay for the costs of the winning defendant.
That would give plaintiffs pause because they'd have
liability for losing.
There are of course complexities, but they can be handled.

I recall an interesting movie called A Civil Action. There was a law firm which took on a class action lawsuit against two corporations for polluting the water supply and causing widespread illness in the town. But they were fighting corporate giants with their own hotshot lawyers - and their expenses were high (they needed experts, scientists, tests on the water, etc.) to the point where they were out of money and bankrupt. The financial guy at the firm had a meltdown and a long tirade against John Travolta's character. I think they got a settlement one of the corporations, far less than what they originally wanted, but in this case, they would have been in no position to be able to pay for the costs of the defendant.

Still, it illustrated one of the pitfalls of the legal world and trying to navigate this bizarre system. It just goes to show that lawyers really do run the system. But of course, just as with anything, they're not all bad. Some are okay.

 

[Revoltingest]

I will read those articles you posted. Attentively.
I already know that the US law enforcement is absolutely terrifying, because police officers are known to plant evidence, to blackmail and threaten suspects. I do know that. This does increase the risk of induced confessions.

Here there is a principle (I don't know how to translate it in English) called guaranteesm. Garantismo - Wikipedia
Means: to guarantee suspects all rights possible. It goes even further than the presumption of innocence.
Our code of penal procedure is based upon guaranteesm.

The code is there. If cops and procurators don't respect it, they will be held accountable.

We have some wonderful rights too.
But corruption & incompetence infringe upon them.

Corruption in Italy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Estro Felino]

We have some wonderful rights too.
But corruption & incompetence infringe upon them.

Corruption in Italy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unfortunately there is something which is mistranslated here.
The word we use for corruption, actually means bribery.
So when people means corruption here, they mean bribery only.

 

[Revoltingest]

I recall an interesting movie called A Civil Action. There was a law firm which took on a class action lawsuit against two corporations for polluting the water supply and causing widespread illness in the town. But they were fighting corporate giants with their own hotshot lawyers - and their expenses were high (they needed experts, scientists, tests on the water, etc.) to the point where they were out of money and bankrupt. The financial guy at the firm had a meltdown and a long tirade against John Travolta's character. I think they got a settlement one of the corporations, far less than what they originally wanted, but in this case, they would have been in no position to be able to pay for the costs of the defendant.

Thus it pays to be certain that one isn't imposing unjust
costs on the defendant. After all, a prevailing defendant
is the one in the right....did nothing wrong. Why should
the innocent party endure expenses caused unjustly by
another?

Still, it illustrated one of the pitfalls of the legal world and trying to navigate this bizarre system. It just goes to show that lawyers really do run the system. But of course, just as with anything, they're not all bad. Some are okay.

There is a middle ground, ie, an evidentiary hearing
to examine the risks & merits of a plaintiff's case.
There are cases wherein both the defendant &
plaintiff have merit. Mediation can be useful.
But beware...I've been thru that process, & it too is
riddled with incompetent lawyers who pass judgement.

 

[Stevicus]

If there is torture involved, of course. Induced confessions arise.
But the era of the Spanish Inquisition is over.

True, although I've heard that nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

However, there are some regimes which have grown quite a bit more sophisticated in their methods than that of the Inquisition.

 

[Estro Felino]

True, although I've heard that nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

However, there are some regimes which have grown quite a bit more sophisticated in their methods than that of the Inquisition.

There are tactics that are studied by excellent psychologists and sociologists and are studied in sophisticated academies of criminology.

In my humble opinion...if they had given me seven hours alone with OJ Simpson, I would have made him confess.

 

[Revoltingest]

In my humble opinion...if they had given me seven hours alone with OJ Simpson, I would have made him confess.

Hearing the kinds of things that post in person?
In 5 minutes I'd confess to killing Kennedy, & admit
that I'm Bernie Madoff....just to get it to stop!


You know that I had to go there.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unfortunately there is something which is mistranslated here.
The word we use for corruption, actually means bribery.
So when people means corruption here, they mean bribery only.

That makes it sooooo much better.

 

[Stonetree]

In my opinion the laws in the US are your lawyer. You must know the law. Never let your guard down when communicating with your lawyer. I put communication with those bums in writing putting responsibility on them for advice or information given to me. They don't like defensive clients. Every lawyer I've used performed terribly. One was a well known head of a Philadelphia law firm. The last time I spoke to him he wanted me to sign a form stating I would not sue him or his family in the future....He sure earned my confidence....lol

 

[Estro Felino]

That makes it sooooo much better.

No...it sucks actually.
Bribery is terrible here.

 

[Estro Felino]

Hearing the kinds of things that post in person?
In 5 minutes I'd confess to killing Kennedy, & admit
that I'm Bernie Madoff....just to get it to stop!
You know that I had to go there.

Indeed.
He will confess just to make it finish.

Don't tell me you are one of those who believes he is innocent. Please...don't do this to me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Indeed.
He will confess just to make it finish.

Don't tell me you are one of those who believes he is innocent. Please...don't do this to me.

What I believe....
Innocent can be coerced into false confessions.
That should be prevented.

 

[Estro Felino]

What I believe....
Innocent can be coerced into false confessions.
That should be prevented.

I asked you a different question about OJ.

 

[Revoltingest]

I asked you a different question about OJ.

I thought it was irrelevant.

The real story....
The day before, OJ's son asked....
"Hey, can I borrow the car?"
OJ responded, "Go ax your mother."
He did.