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The Rapid Decline of Christianity in the USA

PureX

Veteran Member
As religions become more and more institutionalized, they become more and more concerned with maintaining and advancing their own power and authority, and less and less concerned with the spiritual well-being of the people they're supposed to be serving. Eventually the people they're supposed to be serving realize they are getting little value from their involvement, and they discontinue it. Some will find a better religious expression to participate in, and some will simply give up on religious participation, and go their own way.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Per Christianity, atheists break most of the ten commandments (and most of the 613 laws, at that).

Why would atheists care about biblical commandments? How many commandments in the Qur'an do you violate? Have you taken a Hajj? Do you face Mecca and pray five times a day?

If you can understand why you don't submit to those commandments, then you know why an atheist disregards the commandments of both holy books.

Incidentally, Christians don't have the greatest record following the Ten Commandments:
  • "The Ten Commandments fit the United States like $10 shoes, from the first, where we install the "almighty" dollar as an idol, to the last, when we rely on covetousness to turn the wheels of commerce. We keep the Sabbath holy by shopping for bargains and allow and excuse false witness for advertising and political spin. We have been casual about killing for a nation that believes in "Thou shall not kill." And as for adultery, we apparently couldn't have a Congress without it. Beyond all that, we revere the Ten Commandments to shreds." - Tom Blackburn
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
It is because our secular education system is the beast of 666. It is enforced by law that one must go into such a system since childhood. Then everyone going out of it is leaving the mark in his forehead (mind) and right hand (action) to be secular.
Ah yes, one of god's favorite agents.

666beast.jpg


.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Per Christianity, atheists break most of the ten commandments (and most of the 613 laws, at that).
Aren't most of those commandments/laws about worshiping a God they don't believe exists and see no evidence for? And, things like keeping holy the sabbath? It is obviously and objectively unreasonable to judge an atheists' "goodness" on their failure to worship or respect an entity they do not believe exists. If a person's worth or goodness depends on these things, shouldn't God reveal himself to atheists?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Incidentally, Christians don't have the greatest record following the Ten Commandments:
  • "The Ten Commandments fit the United States like $10 shoes, from the first, where we install the "almighty" dollar as an idol, to the last, when we rely on covetousness to turn the wheels of commerce. We keep the Sabbath holy by shopping for bargains and allow and excuse false witness for advertising and political spin. We have been casual about killing for a nation that believes in "Thou shall not kill." And as for adultery, we apparently couldn't have a Congress without it. Beyond all that, we revere the Ten Commandments to shreds." - Tom Blackburn

BINGO!!! Funny how they think God won't notice.....
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and the others don't believe in any God so they don't care...so, who's left? (Matthew 7:21-23)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So you're saying now that things haven't gotten worse; they've either gotten better and plateaued, or haven't gotten as good as you think they ought to have gotten?

No, I'm actually saying that any improvements are swallowed up by the things that have gotten worse. Has world leadership improved any in your lifetime? Have they made sure that their subjects are as well off as themselves? Do you see vast discrepancies in the living standards of average people compared to the ones who are governing the world?

I am saying that in view of the vast experience of thousands of years of humans trying all kinds of different modes of rulership, they have never achieved one that actually works for the good of all. They have not eradicated disease, crime or poverty, despite their massive wealth. Yet there never seems to be a shortage of money for sport or increases in politician's salaries.
4fvgdaq_th.gif


We've cured many diseases and cure more every day.

Is that a comfort to those who are dying from the number one killers in the world today? Cancer and heart disease take more lives than all the supposed "cures" have ever saved. Prescription drugs, used to "treat" our many diseases have caused more deaths that all the illegal drugs ever have. "Cures" are extremely rare because there is no profit in cures.....lots of profit in ongoing treatments though.

It seems obvious to me that all those medical "breakthroughs" that we hear about, never materialize in the real world......they all seem to be 10 years away.....ever wonder why? Ever wonder what happened to those "breakthroughs" we heard about 10 years ago?
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Some countries are close to eliminating homelessness. Crime rates are lower now than they ever have been.

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images

This is not a third world country.....homelessness is a stark reality even in wealthy countries like the USA.

Should any person, let alone children be forced to live like this? Shouldn't the measure of a government's achievement be demonstrated by how well they take care of their most vulnerable citizens?

Actually, we often do solve our differences non-violently.

How often? Can't really see it. It seems to me as if we have some of the physical violence replaced by psychological violence perpetrated in cyber space by anonymous bullies and trolls intent on inflicting as much emotional harm on others as they can muster. "Non-violent" has a new definition these days, I think.

Too many to list. I can give some examples if you narrow the parameters down a bit.

Achievements have to offset the gross errors. What have humans really achieved when you break it all down, For every good thing they have accomplished, there are way more detrimental things that have resulted.

Take our fascination with the internet. The populations of just about every nation are addicted to their devices which now form a part of their daily routine. It has opened up channels of communication that we never thought possible decades ago. Yet how much radiation are we all exposed to because of how widespread it is and how much more power it has to generate with each new upgrade. How many of us are experiencing memory loss on a scale never seen before? Even among young people? We see warnings galore about not using cell phones without being hands free....yet every second person you see has a phone glued to the side of their head. Brain cancers are becoming epidemic and surgeons are alarmed that this message is not getting through.
Texting is so popular that some teens have lost the art of communication in real life. How many lives are lost because people think that they can text and drive?

How narrow do we have to make the definition before we see something that has no down sides that cancel out the good things?

We have. Things are much better across the board, not just for the rich:

Tell that to the homeless people. Out of 15 of the worst cities in the world for homelessness, 6 of them are in the USA. How does that happen, when billions of dollars are spent on taking lives, but so little on saving them. :(

Except in all the times we have.

It usually takes a collective tragedy to bring out the caring spirit in people. We only have to look at the Londoners in the wake of all the tragedy they have experienced of late to see how people have rallied to help out the victims and the survivors. But in everyday life we often ignore the plight of individuals who are less fortunate. They become virtually invisible.

Think of the collective wealth of all those millionaires and billionaires and what they could accomplish if they chose to cut down on their wealth (not just their surplus) and put it to work helping people re-establish themselves after an economic downturn or a health related episode.....
They could provide health care and medicines....build hospitals and care facilities and food stations for those who can't care for themselves. There is a lot being done by a few, but they are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of the need.

As for what stops us from making it a reality across the board? Conservative Christians, mainly.

What have YOU done to try to make this happen?

"Conservative Christians"? You mean in politics?
jawsmiley.gif
If one is a Christian, the directive by the Master is NOT to become involved in those things at all. Religion has no place in politics and politics has no place in the Christian religion. Marry them and you have a recipe for disharmony and disunity....the two things that Jesus promoted among his followers. He taught us to be "no part of the world." (John 18:36) We are to help out where we see a need (like the good Samaritan) but for Christians its about sharing their faith and a sure hope for the future. We can't fix this world but we can register for life in the "new earth" to come. (2 Peter 3:13)

As I believe that nothing will ever be accomplished by world governments that will solve any of man's problems, it is the role of Christians to offer people some good news about world rulership. Soon it will be taken from the hands of corrupt men and placed in the hands of the "Prince of Peace". God's will can then be done "on earth as it is in heaven"......just as Jesus said.
128fs318181.gif
 
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BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Why would atheists care about biblical commandments? How many commandments in the Qur'an do you violate? Have you taken a Hajj? Do you face Mecca and pray five times a day?

If you can understand why you don't submit to those commandments, then you know why an atheist disregards the commandments of both holy books.

Incidentally, Christians don't have the greatest record following the Ten Commandments:
  • "The Ten Commandments fit the United States like $10 shoes, from the first, where we install the "almighty" dollar as an idol, to the last, when we rely on covetousness to turn the wheels of commerce. We keep the Sabbath holy by shopping for bargains and allow and excuse false witness for advertising and political spin. We have been casual about killing for a nation that believes in "Thou shall not kill." And as for adultery, we apparently couldn't have a Congress without it. Beyond all that, we revere the Ten Commandments to shreds." - Tom Blackburn

The actual discussion was "how can atheists be as moral as theists" and my answer was "per the Bible, they cannot". If it helps you understand, atheists are also immoral per the Qu'ran.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Aren't most of those commandments/laws about worshiping a God they don't believe exists and see no evidence for? And, things like keeping holy the sabbath? It is obviously and objectively unreasonable to judge an atheists' "goodness" on their failure to worship or respect an entity they do not believe exists. If a person's worth or goodness depends on these things, shouldn't God reveal himself to atheists?

I wrote PER CHRISTIANITY. Per Christianity, atheists are immoral.

If we want to drill down deeper, we can compare, but that's been done on other threads.

Your objection is moot, because I could reverse everything you wrote to show why atheists consider Christians immoral.

But I wrote because I'm tired of atheists saying they are better or more moral than Christians and that they "keep a lot of the commandments" by their lovely nature. They don't. They violate all ten of the ten commandments, looks like to me!
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I'm sorry, I thought because you said so many things regarding the NT, that you'd actually read it.
I've read the NT. I've never read anything by Jesus.

You said that Jesus "confronts us" with the truth. In reality, all I've ever seen are Christians confronting people with what they attribute to Jesus, which they claim is the truth.

Not exactly the same thing, is it?
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The actual discussion was "how can atheists be as moral as theists" and my answer was "per the Bible, they cannot". If it helps you understand, atheists are also immoral per the Qu'ran.

Christian morality cannot compete with the humanist counterpart. Humanists had to teach the Christians that slavery was immoral. The Bible's authors were apparently unaware of that.

Also, it is not a blessing to be meek.

Nor is it rational or kind to persecute homosexuals. It's bigotry.

If you'd like to see the Golden Rule in practice instead of just in print, put your Bible down and look at the humanists around you. White evangelical Christians in America voted overwhelmingly for the man that grabs women's genitals, does not welcome strangers but rather hopes to enact travel bans and threatens to put up walls, defrauded students at a sham university, cheated uncounted employees and contractors, and promised to revoke public health care from the poor. What does that say about a Christian upbringing?

Humanists overwhelmingly rejected all of that. That's what the Golden Rule would exhort one to do.

No, I'm very unimpressed with the moral performance of Christians.

Furthermore, what moral about obedience to commandments given without reason for the purpose of gaining a reward or avoiding a punishment by an angry and judgmental baby sitter in the sky reading your mind 24/7? Children do that long before they develop a conscience.

When a humanist is kind or just, it is because he wants to be - goodness for goodness sake with no expectation of any reward.

Like I said, Christian morality cannot compete with the humanist counterpart.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Your objection is moot, because I could reverse everything you wrote to show why atheists consider Christians immoral.

Just the Christians that get their morality from the scriptures and morally deficient preachers. Many do much better than that. The scriptures have no use for democracy, church state-separation, or guaranteed personal freedoms including freedom of religion..

I'm tired of atheists saying they are better or more moral than Christians

Then don't give us cause. You just did with me, and I gave you a reaction.

If you're going to claim the moral high ground, first, you need to hold it, and then use that to defend your claim. The Christian performance in America at least does not support such a claim.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The actual discussion was "how can atheists be as moral as theists" and my answer was "per the Bible, they cannot". If it helps you understand, atheists are also immoral per the Qu'ran.
Every commandment and behavioural suggestion of Christianity that is demonstrably good and moral can be followed by anyone. Nobody needs to become a Christian in order to not steal or murder.

OTOH, non-Christians are free to ignore any questionable or clearly immoral Christian commandments.

The way I see it, while individuals vary, non-Christians are free to be at least as moral as Christians.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
But I wrote because I'm tired of atheists saying they are better or more moral than Christians and that they "keep a lot of the commandments" by their lovely nature. They don't. They violate all ten of the ten commandments, looks like to me!
You think atheists are all murderers and thieves?
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I wrote PER CHRISTIANITY. Per Christianity, atheists are immoral.

If we want to drill down deeper, we can compare, but that's been done on other threads.

Your objection is moot, because I could reverse everything you wrote to show why atheists consider Christians immoral.

But I wrote because I'm tired of atheists saying they are better or more moral than Christians and that they "keep a lot of the commandments" by their lovely nature. They don't. They violate all ten of the ten commandments, looks like to me!
See, this is where you seem objectively wrong. Certainly atheists do not break the commandments not having to do with God any more than Christians. There are Christians who break all of the commandments sometimes just as there are atheists that do the same.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
No, I'm actually saying that any improvements are swallowed up by the things that have gotten worse. Has world leadership improved any in your lifetime? Have they made sure that their subjects are as well off as themselves? Do you see vast discrepancies in the living standards of average people compared to the ones who are governing the world?

I am saying that in view of the vast experience of thousands of years of humans trying all kinds of different modes of rulership, they have never achieved one that actually works for the good of all. They have not eradicated disease, crime or poverty, despite their massive wealth. Yet there never seems to be a shortage of money for sport or increases in politician's salaries.
4fvgdaq_th.gif




Is that a comfort to those who are dying from the number one killers in the world today? Cancer and heart disease take more lives than all the supposed "cures" have ever saved. Prescription drugs, used to "treat" our many diseases have caused more deaths that all the illegal drugs ever have. "Cures" are extremely rare because there is no profit in cures.....lots of profit in ongoing treatments though.

It seems obvious to me that all those medical "breakthroughs" that we hear about, never materialize in the real world......they all seem to be 10 years away.....ever wonder why? Ever wonder what happened to those "breakthroughs" we heard about 10 years ago?
297.gif




images
images

This is not a third world country.....homelessness is a stark reality even in wealthy countries like the USA.

Should any person, let alone children be forced to live like this? Shouldn't the measure of a government's achievement be demonstrated by how well they take care of their most vulnerable citizens?



How often? Can't really see it. It seems to me as if we have some of the physical violence replaced by psychological violence perpetrated in cyber space by anonymous bullies and trolls intent on inflicting as much emotional harm on others as they can muster. "Non-violent" has a new definition these days, I think.



Achievements have to offset the gross errors. What have humans really achieved when you break it all down, For every good thing they have accomplished, there are way more detrimental things that have resulted.

Take our fascination with the internet. The populations of just about every nation are addicted to their devices which now form a part of their daily routine. It has opened up channels of communication that we never thought possible decades ago. Yet how much radiation are we all exposed to because of how widespread it is and how much more power it has to generate with each new upgrade. How many of us are experiencing memory loss on a scale never seen before? Even among young people? We see warnings galore about not using cell phones without being hands free....yet every second person you see has a phone glued to the side of their head. Brain cancers are becoming epidemic and surgeons are alarmed that this message is not getting through.
Texting is so popular that some teens have lost the art of communication in real life. How many lives are lost because people think that they can text and drive?

How narrow do we have to make the definition before we see something that has no down sides that cancel out the good things?



Tell that to the homeless people. Out of 15 of the worst cities in the world for homelessness, 6 of them are in the USA. How does that happen, when billions of dollars are spent on taking lives, but so little on saving them. :(



It usually takes a collective tragedy to bring out the caring spirit in people. We only have to look at the Londoners in the wake of all the tragedy they have experienced of late to see how people have rallied to help out the victims and the survivors. But in everyday life we often ignore the plight of individuals who are less fortunate. They become virtually invisible.

Think of the collective wealth of all those millionaires and billionaires and what they could accomplish if they chose to cut down on their wealth (not just their surplus) and put it to work helping people re-establish themselves after an economic downturn or a health related episode.....
They could provide health care and medicines....build hospitals and care facilities and food stations for those who can't care for themselves. There is a lot being done by a few, but they are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of the need.



"Conservative Christians"? You mean in politics?
jawsmiley.gif
If one is a Christian, the directive by the Master is NOT to become involved in those things at all. Religion has no place in politics and politics has no place in the Christian religion. Marry them and you have a recipe for disharmony and disunity....the two things that Jesus promoted among his followers. He taught us to be "no part of the world." (John 18:36) We are to help out where we see a need (like the good Samaritan) but for Christians its about sharing their faith and a sure hope for the future. We can't fix this world but we can register for life in the "new earth" to come. (2 Peter 3:13)

As I believe that nothing will ever be accomplished by world governments that will solve any of man's problems, it is the role of Christians to offer people some good news about world rulership. Soon it will be taken from the hands of corrupt men and placed in the hands of the "Prince of Peace". God's will can then be done "on earth as it is in heaven"......just as Jesus said.
128fs318181.gif
You know Deeje, your posts have done something for me. Before, when Jehovah's Witnesses came to our house I would just politely say "No thanks, not interested" and send them no their way. But having seen the JW view of the world as expressed by you, and how bleak, dark, depressing, pessimistic, and negative it is, I think I'm going to start to say to them "There's no way in hell I would ever, ever, EVER join your group."
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
declining-churchmike.jpg


I'm not posting this to throw it in the faces of Christians, but to establish the fact and ask:

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS HAPPENING?

What has, or hasn't, Christianity in America done to send it into such a tail spin?
The following assortment of visuals are posted without comment and meant to give you something to think about.



70%2BPercent%2BOf%2BAmericans%2Bare%2BSelf-Professed%2BChristians.jpg
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usa-today-change-in-other-christians-from-1990-to-2008.png
download
85
PewReligionCharts.png
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.

Skwim,
This is not a hard question to answer.
This world, and especially the United States is getting more immoral every day. This country allows its leaders to make war with many countries who have no way to attack us, murdering millions of people. There are millions of abortions every year in this country, which is murder to God, Exodus 21:22-25. Since there is so much immorality now, who do you think will teach the next generation, which will be more immoral than this one.
It is much harder to go against the trend than to fight against it. Being a Christian is like swimming upstream against, not only the current, but also against everything floating down the river. It is much easier to just, go with the flow.
To be a Christian we must follow Jesus' footsteps, 1Peter 2:21,Jesus was persecuted, and so will his followers, John 15:18-20, 2Timothy 3:12. Then there are many things that make up the normal life that takes up much time, and can stumble a person from studying God's word, Matthew 13:13-23.
Then people see the hypocracy of the people who call themselves Christians, Romans 2:23,24, Titus 1:15,16. Christians must be honest in all things, Hebrews 13:18.
So, you see it is not easy to be a Christian, it is much easier to go along with the crowd.
Of course, that is until we face Jesus, and then we will all wish that we had listened to what the Bible says, but then it will be too late. Agape!!!
 
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