The Rapture

[Servant James]

Not by reasoning of the natural mind, but by faith alone, can one comprehend as revealed by the Holy Spirit, that this mortal temple we now perceive is only a temporal habitation. The reality is, all that is, is God’s eternal and boundless Spiritual domain in which He creates a temporal material dimension with our present temple being formed in His image and after His likeness as His ultimate creation purpose, in whom He breathes the breath of life to become living souls for His pleasure of our reigning with Him forever in that place He has prepared for us, where we will live immortal in His heavenly kingdom and enjoy the pleasure of His rewarding blessings throughout eternity.

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.” 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (KJV)

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? … So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.” 1 Corinthians 15:35, 42-49 (KJV)

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” 1 Corinthian 15:51-55 (KJV)

“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV)

This is what it’s all about. In God’s eternal sacred design there will be a resurrection of the dead but as written, when the trump sounds at the coming of the Lord the dead in Christ shall rise first, then those which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air. This is what is referred to as “the rapture.” Oh that all men would only believe! All are invited.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

1st Thessalonians 4 v 17 mentions in the clouds. The 'resurrected ascending to heaven' Jesus at Acts 1 v 9 went to heaven hidden out of visible sight by the cloud.

The 'then' [of verse 17] 'we which are alive and remain' are Jesus modern-day 'brothers' of Matthew 25 v 40. Earlier Jesus' 1st-century spiritual 'brothers' [1st Corinthians 15 v 50] were resurrected not raptured. Since 'flesh and blood' can NOT inherit the kingdom of God, Jesus 'brothers' who are alive on earth at the 'then' 'time of separation' [Matthew 25 vs 31,32] will be 'caught up' meaning unlike the 'brothers of 1st Thess. 4 v 13 they will not spend time sleeping in death, but be resurrected at the time of their death to be part of the first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20 v 6; Philippians 3 vs 10,11.
So, so-called rapture is resurrection. The rest of the dead will be resurrected back to life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.

 

[Muffled]

1st Thessalonians 4 v 17 mentions in the clouds. The 'resurrected ascending to heaven' Jesus at Acts 1 v 9 went to heaven hidden out of visible sight by the cloud.

The 'then' [of verse 17] 'we which are alive and remain' are Jesus modern-day 'brothers' of Matthew 25 v 40. Earlier Jesus' 1st-century spiritual 'brothers' [1st Corinthians 15 v 50] were resurrected not raptured. Since 'flesh and blood' can NOT inherit the kingdom of God, Jesus 'brothers' who are alive on earth at the 'then' 'time of separation' [Matthew 25 vs 31,32] will be 'caught up' meaning unlike the 'brothers of 1st Thess. 4 v 13 they will not spend time sleeping in death, but be resurrected at the time of their death to be part of the first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20 v 6; Philippians 3 vs 10,11.
So, so-called rapture is resurrection. The rest of the dead will be resurrected back to life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.

There is no way that you can get death out of being caught up unless the meaning is completely ignored.

This conclusion is based on false premises, and is not the case. In fact verse 14 says nothing about the dead being raptured. God (Here represented as Jesus) brings the resurrected with Him when He comes from wherever He is coming from. However I will grant that some people still believe in sleeping after death and will be raptured together with the living as stated in verse 17. If there were not different groups of people the text would be contradicting itself.

I Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

As a little side note. My brother just died and Jesus told me that my brother was with Him. Because I believe the hour is late, that most likely means in the New Jerusalem and he may even have his new body since the resurrection precedes the rapture but with no limitation on how much it precedes it.

 

[javajo]

I believe Jesus rose physically from the grave, yet was the 'first fruits' of those of us who would be raptured or resurrected as well. When this happens we are changed, transformed, sinless, immortal, glorified. Like Jesus was flesh and blood, yet he was something else. He could appear in the midst of a room, he could fly up in the sky, yet he could still eat and be felt. It is our transformation.

The dead in Christ, Jesus bring with him from Heaven, and they receive their new resurrected bodies an instant before our living bodies are changed. We are changed to be like him and to be able to live forever with him, fit for Heaven and the Kingdom on earth to come.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What Scripture says Jesus had a physical resurrection ?___________
If physical, then why didn't his followers recognize the resurrected Jesus ?

Of course Jesus could appear in the midst of a room because Jesus used several different materialized bodies before ascending to heaven.

Those humans resurrected to heaven in a spirit body serve as kings and priest over earthly subjects in a physical body as Adam originally had.
- Revelation 5 vs 9,10; Psalm 72 v 8

 

[Muffled]

I believe Jesus rose physically from the grave, yet was the 'first fruits' of those of us who would be raptured or resurrected as well. When this happens we are changed, transformed, sinless, immortal, glorified. Like Jesus was flesh and blood, yet he was something else. He could appear in the midst of a room, he could fly up in the sky, yet he could still eat and be felt. It is our transformation.

The dead in Christ, Jesus bring with him from Heaven, and they receive their new resurrected bodies an instant before our living bodies are changed. We are changed to be like him and to be able to live forever with him, fit for Heaven and the Kingdom on earth to come.

There is scant information about this. The verse doesn't say where people are brought from. One could speculate that people will come from Heaven but it is just as possible that Jesus will populate the New Jerusalem when the time draws near.

 

[Muffled]

What Scripture says Jesus had a physical resurrection ?___________
If physical, then why didn't his followers recognize the resurrected Jesus ?

Of course Jesus could appear in the midst of a room because Jesus used several different materialized bodies before ascending to heaven.

Those humans resurrected to heaven in a spirit body serve as kings and priest over earthly subjects in a physical body as Adam originally had.
- Revelation 5 vs 9,10; Psalm 72 v 8

I have never seen a verse that supports the notion of multiple bodies and that isn't germaine to appearing in the midst of a room.

Everyone assumes that the absense of the body in the tomb means that Jesus was resurrected in the same body but God is capable of appearing in any body He chooses and/or He can change the body that is being resurrected. Considering that Jesus could show wounds in His hands and feet the latter seems more likely.

 

[javajo]

What Scripture says Jesus had a physical resurrection ?___________
If physical, then why didn't his followers recognize the resurrected Jesus?

I believe his followers were afraid when they saw him and they did recognize him but thought he was a spirit or 'ghost' and that he had a physical body as the following scripture clearly says that not only did they handle his actual flesh and bones, but he ate before them,and of course because the tomb was empty.

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Of course Jesus could appear in the midst of a room because Jesus used several different materialized bodies before ascending to heaven.

I believe as that scripture says, he suffered, died, and rose again to fulfill scripture, one body. He raised several people back to life, including Lazarus and a 12 year old girl, and many were resurrected and walked the streets of Jerusalem when he rose again, so it makes sense that he did indeed rise physically from the grave, and that is one thing that makes Christianity unique among all other religions, our Saviour rose from the grave and so we know we will, too. Or be raptured if we have not died yet...

Those humans resurrected to heaven in a spirit body serve as kings and priest over earthly subjects in a physical body as Adam originally had.
- Revelation 5 vs 9,10; Psalm 72 v 8

I believe, as 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thess. 4 say, that we shall be changed, our bodies will be transformed, sinless and immortal and we shall reign with Christ during the thousand year reign, but we will all finally live forever on a new earth with God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus resurrected 'brothers' will be changed and gain immortal life forever in the heavens. They are part of the first or earlier resurrection [ Rev. 20 v 6]
At the end of the thousand years [1Cor.15v24] God's kingdom is delivered up back to God.
That does not mean Jesus 'brothers' [saints] will not remain in heaven with him.

All who lived before Jesus died [John 3 v 13] can only have an earthly resurrection.
Those that commit the unforgivable sin [Mt. 12 v 32; Hebrews 6 vs 4-6; 10 v 26] will not have a resurrection anywhere, to heaven or on earth, but are destroyed. -Psalm 92 v 7

'Immortal life' is a self-contained indestructible life needing no outside dependence.
'Everlasting life' as was offered to mortal Adam, is dependent on outside forces such as eating and drinking and breathing. All who gain everlasting life on earth are still mortal depending on those outside forces besides obedience to God.

 

[Tbone]

This doctrinal concept is probably misconstrued as the Doctrine of the Trinity. However there is scripture to support this where there isn't any for the DOTT.

This is the main supporting scripture: I Thes. 4:13 ¶ But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep. 6 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I also include:
Mat 22:1 ¶ And Jesus answered and spake again in parables unto them, saying,
2 The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a certain king, who made a marriage feast for his son,
3 and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the marriage feast: and they would not come.
4 Again he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them that are bidden, Behold, I have made ready my dinner; my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come to the marriage feast.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his merchandise;
6 and the rest laid hold on his servants, and treated them shamefully, and killed them.
7 But the king was wroth; and he sent his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they that were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore unto the partings of the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage feast.
10 And those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was filled with guests.
11 But when the king came in to behold the guests, he saw there a man who had not on a wedding–garment:
12 and he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding–garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

I also include the harvest of wheat (Righteous people) in the Rapture coming before the harvest of tares (un-righteous people) that comes with fire:

Rev 14:15 And another angel came out from the temple, crying with a great voice to him that sat on the cloud, Send forth thy sickle, and reap: for the hour to reap is come; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud cast his sickle upon the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 Another angel came out from the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, he that hath power over fire; and he called with a great voice to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Send forth thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel cast his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress, the great winepress, of the wrath of God.

The "rapture" theory is just a misunderstand of what will happen at Christ's second comming.
There is no "rapture".

 

[Tbone]

No!I am saying there is no biblical support for the Doctrine of the Trinity as espoused by Athanasius. There is plenty of Biblical evidence for the Trinity as given in the Niocene Creed.

The "Niocene Creed" is not of God, it is of men and as such is not biblical evidence.

 

[javajo]

Jesus resurrected 'brothers' will be changed and gain immortal life forever in the heavens. They are part of the first or earlier resurrection [ Rev. 20 v 6]
At the end of the thousand years [1Cor.15v24] God's kingdom is delivered up back to God.
That does not mean Jesus 'brothers' [saints] will not remain in heaven with him.

According to Revelation, God takes up residence on earth forever after the Thousand Year Reign:
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

'Immortal life' is a self-contained indestructible life needing no outside dependence.
'Everlasting life' as was offered to mortal Adam, is dependent on outside forces such as eating and drinking and breathing. All who gain everlasting life on earth are still mortal depending on those outside forces besides obedience to God.

We will all be changed sinless and immortal:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15

The "rapture" theory is just a misunderstand of what will happen at Christ's second comming.
There is no "rapture".

There are at least 15 differences between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming, I think I have listed them on this thread before.

 

[Tbone]

Quote:Originally Posted by Tbone
The "rapture" theory is just a misunderstand of what will happen at Christ's second comming.
There is no "rapture".

There are at least 15 differences between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming, I think I have listed them on this thread before.

You, obviously are one of the ones who doesn't understand.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

According to Revelation, God takes up residence on earth forever after the Thousand Year Reign:
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
We will all be changed sinless and immortal:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15
There are at least 15 differences between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming, I think I have listed them on this thread before.

Not rapture but resurrection. Please remember: 'flesh and blood' [physical] can Not inherit the kingdom - 1st Cor. 15 v 50

'Not all sleep in death' because at that time those 'brothers' who die will be resurrected right away. No amount of time now necessary to sleep death's sleep because during Jesus 1000-year reign 'death will be no more'
- Rev 21 vs 4,5.

The 'we' are Jesus 'brothers' still alive at the 'time of separation' [Matt 25 vs 31,32,40] who will join Jesus [as joint-heirs] when they are resurrected as Jesus was caught away in a cloud when the resurrected Jesus ascended to heaven.
- Acts 1 v 9.

It's the governmental rule comes down to earth from the heavens.
-Daniel 2 v 44
God's heavenly dwelling place is heaven according to 1st Kings 8 v 27.
And God can dwell with us in a spiritual sense.
God is with men showing the focus is on earth not the angels.
God with 'be with' righteous mankind to protect and bless them.
That does not have to be a literal 'being with a human'.
Doesn't Scripture teach that No man [human] can see God and live?________
-Exodus 33 v 20; 1st John 4 v 12.

The 'we' are Jesus 'brothers' that put on immortality.
The humble meek that will inherit [not heaven] but earth, gain everlasting life.
The immortal are death proof and self contained.
Adam was never offered immortality but everlasting life with the difference being that we as humans are dependent on outside forces such as eating, breathing, etc. along with the condition of choosing obedience to God.

 

[javajo]

Quote:Originally Posted by Tbone
The "rapture" theory is just a misunderstand of what will happen at Christ's second comming.
There is no "rapture".


You, obviously are one of the ones who doesn't understand.

Alrighty then.

Not rapture but resurrection. Please remember: 'flesh and blood' [physical] can Not inherit the kingdom - 1st Cor. 15 v 50

That is why it says we shall be changed, transformed, that this mortal shall put on immortality and corruption (sinfulness) will put on incorruption. It says we shall ALL be changed.

'Not all sleep in death' because at that time those 'brothers' who die will be resurrected right away. No amount of time now necessary to sleep death's sleep because during Jesus 1000-year reign 'death will be no more'
- Rev 21 vs 4,5.

There will be people alive after the Tribulation who will populate the earth during the Millennial Reign, and they are mortals. We will rule and reign with Christ during that time. After that time, God takes up residence on earth and we all will live forever with God on earth, according to Rev. 21.

It's the governmental rule comes down to earth from the heavens.
-Daniel 2 v 44
God's heavenly dwelling place is heaven according to 1st Kings 8 v 27.
And God can dwell with us in a spiritual sense.
God is with men showing the focus is on earth not the angels.
God with 'be with' righteous mankind to protect and bless them.
That does not have to be a literal 'being with a human'.
Doesn't Scripture teach that No man [human] can see God and live?________
-Exodus 33 v 20; 1st John 4 v 12.

When God comes to earth, we will already have been transformed over a thousand years before, and we will have already seen him in Heaven. The Heavenly City, the New Jerusalem will be on earth, and God's glory will be our light.

The 'we' are Jesus 'brothers' that put on immortality.
The humble meek that will inherit [not heaven] but earth, gain everlasting life.
The immortal are death proof and self contained.
Adam was never offered immortality but everlasting life with the difference being that we as humans are dependent on outside forces such as eating, breathing, etc. along with the condition of choosing obedience to God.

I believe everyone who has simply trusted Christ and his finished work on the cross will live forever with God on earth, all together. While there will be varying rewards and positions, we will all be together on earth forever with the Lord.

 

[Muffled]

The "rapture" theory is just a misunderstand of what will happen at Christ's second comming.
There is no "rapture".

The evidence does not support your statement. If you believe otherwise then present what you believe to be evidence.

 

[Muffled]

The "Niocene Creed" is not of God, it is of men and as such is not biblical evidence.

You have no evidence to support this view.

This is a non-sequitur.

The niocene creed is based on Biblical evidence. The fact that men can actually discern Biblical evidence may or may not indicate divine assistance. Sometimes even an atheist can correctly figure out what the Bible says.

 

[Muffled]

According to Revelation, God takes up residence on earth forever after the Thousand Year Reign:
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

We will all be changed sinless and immortal:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Cor. 15

There are at least 15 differences between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming, I think I have listed them on this thread before.

This is based on an assumption that Rev 20 and 21 are consecutive as opposed to being contemporary.

We have this statement about the holy City: Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Tbone]

The evidence does not support your statement. If you believe otherwise then present what you believe to be evidence.

LOL...there is no evidence to the contradict what I said.
Read the book, not what other people say about the book.

 

[Tbone]

You have no evidence to support this view.

This is a non-sequitur.

The niocene creed is based on Biblical evidence. The fact that men can actually discern Biblical evidence may or may not indicate divine assistance. Sometimes even an atheist can correctly figure out what the Bible says.

LOL...not you again. Is the "Creed" in the Bible or not?