Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
No, because it will shorten her life expectancy and no surgery is without risk.
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The Real Reason Trump Won
- Thread starter The Hammer
- Start date
Would it do any of these things more than pregancy and childbirth would?
Remember that you've already set a bar for the level of risk and harm you expect a woman to bear against her will.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Pregnancy CAN very slightly decrease a woman's life expectancy. Science is not unanimous. The main study done was a small study of Polish women. Other studies showed that white women lived longer after having kids. So we don't really know.
Do the Child-Free Live Longer?
If you're of childbearing age, you're surely used to the refrain that one of the most sublime joys of life is parenthood. A baby means...
Wirey
Fartist
But the life of the child is paramount, regardless of the outcome for the mother, correct?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
The vast majority of abortions are done not because of risk to the mother but for the convenience of the mother. I am not going to repost this information because I have done so already multiple times on multiple threads.
Wirey
Fartist
Wasn't my question. Do I have any right to my mother's well being for my own gain?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I've already answered your question.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Not an answer to the question.
Wirey
Fartist
Not really. You answered a different question that reinforced a flawed argument. Let's try again, and you'll see what I mean:
Let's say I have a kidney condition, and I require a transplant or I'll die. My mother is the only eligible donor, but if she donates that kidney her life expectancy will be reduced. Yes or no, should she be forced to give me the kidney? And not, "but the rights of the mother are rarely....". Yes or no, do I automatically get her kidney?
BrightShadow
Active Member
Are we talking about the same thing?
What evidence do you have to compare Trump with Hitler?
Do you have evidence to show Trump's supporters are garbage?
We were talking about whether or not both sides were talking junk (trash). The answer is - they were!
Simplistic?
The way the two sides have drifted apart these days - sometimes it helps to figure out 'tolerance' levels before making a final decision. You have to figure out the 'middle ground'.
Everything has to come out from the 'House' before a President can sign it.
In the past - you could invite the opposition and have a discussion over coffee/tea but these days - they hate each other's guts. So Trump found a new way to find the middle ground.
Ingenious!
Stop right there! Are you writing from a cruise ship?
Your perception is your reality; it doesn't represent the truth.
Policies? The 'Left' leaning policies are insane but let's just briefly talk about "ramifications". I mean ramification of Biden's policies (or lack of it) to be specific.
Lefties (specifically) during the last few years have destroyed the definition of "woman". They took a clear digital image and turned it into a blurred abstract art.
The lefties tried to project that they are about 'equality' but in fact they don't represent the levelheaded majority of the women who want their identity protected, who want men (claiming to be a woman) out of their sports.
With the progression of science - it seems - you could have as many genders as you like but leave the ones already defined from the beginning of time. Go do surgeries and turn yourself into a half horse half human but have the decency to call yourself a 'Centaur'. Don't call yourself a woman and ruin it for the actual biological woman. Don't spoil their chance to have a fair competition among each other.
Lefties claim to be about 'equality' but they don't include the ones not on board with them or their agendas. As a matter of fact - they trash them!
Wanna talk about 'ramifications' of 'Green' policies?
Well let me keep it as brief as possible...
You will buy windmills and batteries from China until you are broke and try to go 'green' BUT China and India will never stop polluting the environment. You can never clean anything from one side. Might as well spend your money on planetary science and find another planet.
First figure out how to make China, India and other 3rd world nations to comply.
No inspectors from WHO were allowed into China to inspect Wuhan lab. Do you expect EPA/OIG inspectors will ever be allowed in China to conduct on-site inspections in any meaningful capacity?
I would say - wake up and smell the coffee but you are not sleeping. You are wide awake but smoking ***
'Inaction' can be worse than any of the so-called 'ramifications' you may be talking about.
Biden slept at the helm and as a result innocent civilians in the thousands died. 40,000 thousand here and 40,000 there and another bigger number there. These numbers mean anything to the Dems?
Do you not see the evidence of how bad the policies of the 'blind and silent' observer look like? They are blind or simply given a blind eye while atrocities took place.
There is nothing called a bystander when you have the power and influence to intervene and save innocent children from being blown into pieces but you don't do anything significant enough to stop it
I can understand - you can't stop a one day savage attack but months and months of systematic killings? Give me a break! Biden will not be a happy man on Judgment Day. I know he probably believes his sins will be forgiven.
When you sell your soul and dedicate your life to fight for one single cause - you block out everything else. Some Dems are fighting for their specific rights (pro-choice, LGBTQIA+ rights, black live, environment, etc. etc.).
Dems are not politics-as-usual as you put it. Dems are - "join us or you are X-Y-Z".
Dems are a bunch of dishonest folks who don't realize when they call their opponents names.
Where did I call anyone "social outcasts and haters"?
I pointed out one side primarily consists of folks who are fighting for their own interests. I didn't characterize them into anything other than maybe being selfish. There are more important things to fight for - like the economy, stop the conflicts around the world that can really spiral out of control. One Ukrainian fighter jet pilot (on a suicide mission because his children were killed by a Russian drone) can start a nuclear war!!!!
Worry about that!
Are you talking about Trump or all from the 'Right'?
If you are talking in regards to Trump - then don't believe everything you hear because the historians, academics and the intellectuals who understand Trump are not vocal enough due to the backlash they could receive from the loony lefties. Yeah! Those - single agenda pusher!
So, the voice you hear from the so-called historians, academics and intellectuals is biased.
Years from now when Trump is done with his four years at the office - those other impartial historians (who are silent right now) will point out how stupid and biased the other ones were.
Wait for the final picture!
At this point - all I could tell you is...
Continue worrying but tone down your rhetoric a bit and tell your likeminded folks to do the same because all you guys are doing is making a lot of noise - "hees & haws (bray).
We were talking about the real reason Trump won, Remember?
And one reason why Trump won was...
The folks in the middle had enough. Dems tried to re-define what a woman is. They went overboard.
Now swim to the shore and figure out another way to fool everyday Americans.
I responded to almost every sentence you wrote. I know I didn't make a dent. Hopefully someone in the middle will agree otherwise it was a waste of time. Maybe you will agree with that!
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Some questions to illuminate your perspective....
What should be done when the fetus is killing their host?
Is abortion OK if the result of rape?
If the result of incest?
If the baby would be doomed to a short life in pain?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda...not a real scenario at all.
Kidney donation is safer than giving birth.
The mortality rate for giving birth in 2021 (USA) was 32.9 per hundred thousand.
It was much higher for blacks.
Maternal Mortality Rates in the United States, 2021
National Center for Health Statistics
The mortality rate attributable to kidney donation is 0.006%.
Or 6 per hundred thousand.
Risks and Benefits of Living Kidney Donation | Patient Care
People who are considering becoming a kidney donor must carefully weigh the potential risks and benefits of donating a kidney.Although the surgery itself is often a major component of this decision, other factors such as medical risks, the cosmetic result, and socioeconomic factors also play an...
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
If the baby is killing its mother, I consider that to be a matter of self-defense. I mean, it's sad, but that's what I'd consider it to be.
Rape and incest are OK. I mean, I wouldn't do it but since about 96 percent or more of abortions are NOT for rape or incest, I would be OK with saving more lives.
As for the short life of pain, I don't know. Let me tell you what I DO know. I know that two ultrasounds showed that my first granddaughter had very undeveloped kidneys, so much so that there was a pediatric surgeon on hand when she was finally born- her mother would not have an abortion. And she had zero issues with her kidneys. Zero. It is a very rare scenario and depends entirely on the individual case. Generally, I would say no though.
PureX
Veteran Member
Someone has to decide what to do when these kinds of difficult decisions have to be made. Is the fetus viable? By what estimated percentage? Is it endangering the mother's health? By what estimated percentage? Do you think YOU should be the one to make those decisions? Do you think some politician or high court judge should be making those decisions? Or do you think the woman and her doctor should be the only one's making those decisions? And if not the woman and her doctor, then why not? What makes you, the politician, or the judge more qualified?
Useful.
What does that mean?
Certainly not OK with rape & incest, but.....
OK with abortion?
Or OK to deny abortion?
Judgement / diagnosis is never perfect.
But it's the information that must be worked with.
Should public policy ignore diagnosis & prognosis because of the possibility of error?
Or should it diagnosis & prognosis be the basis for decisions, even if imperfect?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
LOL no I am not OK with rape or incest, but I would make exceptions for those since around 97 percent of abortions are NOT for rape or incest. Most are also not for the health of the mother or the baby for that matter. So if we could save over 90 percent of infants, then I am for saving over 90 percent of infants from being aborted, And no, I am not going to look up and repost links that I've already posted in various threads. You can look it up like I did probably weeks ago, if you want.
I wonder if some wag will respond to that with....
"How you do'n?"
If a fetus has the rights to a person same as
does a baby, why should those rights be lost
if the fetus's father is a rapist or relative?
Certainly, after a fetus is born, & becomes a
baby, it shouldn't be killed just because of
sins of the father. Right.
If so, then this tells us that a fetus & a baby
don't share the same right to life.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I am about saving as many lives as possible. I already said I wouldn't do it but I also wouldn't impose that on someone else. We could save over 96 percent of babies that are currently aborted. Almost 100 percent!
But if it's about the fetus's right to life,
why should the circumstances of their
conception possibly defeat that right?
Another way to phrase it (for fervent
right to lifers)....
If aborting a fetus conceived under
acceptable circumstances is murder,
then why isn't it murder if the fetus
had unfortunate parentage?
Or.....is murder OK if the father is
either relative or rapist?