The real teachings of Christ

[Nehustan]

I googled a particular verse of the bible I wanted to post in reply, and came across an interesting page....which I will post a part from

'Every prophet has realized that nobody loves you for being the enemy of their illusions. Every prophet has realized that most of us want peace at any price as long as the peace is ours and somebody else pays the price. That is why the prophet Jeremiah said, "'Peace, peace,' they say, when there is no peace." and why Jesus said, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34 NIV)'

http://www.30goodminutes.org/csec/sermon/coffin_3519.htm


and of course we all now the story of the money lenders in the temple...

 

[Darkdale]

Its your interpretation of christs message which is misplaced . You fail to see the connection between " the history of spiritualism " & " christ " .

No. I may dislike Christianity, but I sure as hell haven't neglected the study of it. You guys keep drawing out verses and then making more out of them. Netdoc is the only one that seems to be looking at things from a Biblical perspective.

 

[Nehustan]

I just wished to 'pull out a verse' to do away with the fallacious argument about Jeheshuah as a pacifist. He was a radical, anyway you look at it. Before you quote the 'turn the other cheek' axiom, be reminded that even Jeheshuah only had two, and anyone who's ever had a fight will know it takes a couple of blows to get the blood up. Passivity serves only hegemonic elites. 'Christianity' has long been used to enslave people, who once free from real bondage are now bound to pacifism, whereas if Jeheshuah had any 'mission' it was to set people free.

 

[Darkdale]

I just wished to 'pull out a verse' to do away with the fallacious argument about Jeheshuah as a pacifist. He was a radical, anyway you look at it. Before you quote the 'turn the other cheek' axiom, be reminded that even Jeheshuah only had two, and anyone who's ever had a fight will know it takes a couple of blows to get the blood up. Passivity serves only hegemonic elites. 'Christianity' has long been used to enslave people, who once free from real bondage are now bound to pacifism, whereas if Jeheshuah had any 'mission' it was to set people free.

I'm sorry. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that Jesus came to bring liberty to people. He was even a complicit advocate for secular government. As Luther was a Catholic, Jesus was a Jew and he was bringing a radical agenda, yes... one the weakened the Jewish Church and meant to unite the people under a more simple theology. If liberty from the church is what you are talking about, I can see that, but not liberty from principle or ideals. Jesus was a radical idealist and freedom, as I understand it, is a removal of obstacles that stand in between an individual and his natural state.

Jesus was a pacifist. That doesn't mean he didn't get angry. That doesn't mean that he did get passionate. But whenever violence was presented as an option, Jesus condemned it. That appears to be the Biblical perspective.

 

[Nehustan]

I think you are right that Jeheshuah did not come to do away with 'principles' rather to unshroud them from the mystery (read as forest) that had been planted to guard/hide the simple truth of the prophets, and thus as it were 'The God'

 

[Darkdale]

Forgive my utter ignorance, but as a nonchristian I am wondering, "Did Jesus, the Christ, ever mention the 10 commandments?"

Not specifically. only 9 of the 10 commandments were discussed in the New Testament (the one left out was the honoring of the sabbath day). But as far as Jesus was concerned, he was focusing on a simpler theology that could exist side-by-side secular institutions. He never paid any specific attention to the 10 commandments that I can remember.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Actually,

Jesus referred to the "other" commandments as well:

Matthew 19:16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"

17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

18 "Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" 21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." NIV

For the most part though, Jesus ascribed to just two, and the rest of the first century church did much the same. If the mainstream churches would turn and concentrate on THESE alone, most of our problems (as well as differences) would be solved.

Darkdale shows a shrewd understanding of my Lord. He was a rabid pacifist. The "wars" and "battles" he referred to were spiritual in nature as reflected in this scripture:

II Corinthians 10:1 By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am "timid" when face to face with you, but "bold" when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. NIV

 

[Omraam]

No. I may dislike Christianity, but I sure as hell haven't neglected the study of it. You guys keep drawing out verses and then making more out of them. Netdoc is the only one that seems to be looking at things from a Biblical perspective.

Biblical perspective

Goodness me , Im telling you that the bible will not make any sense without the kabbalah .Why have people hardened their hearts to this ? Dont you realize this is why christianity has lost its appeal ?

Because people will no longer believe in something superficial and ridiculous .Which is exactly what most churches expect folk to do .

All the biblical figures , moses , David , solomon, Jesus knew the kabbalah . Quite soon I will write you a letter with proofs that kabbalah was studied by these people .

Go and ask a kung fu master if you can understand kung fu by studying it but not applying the techniques . He will tell you to go away and not to bother him !

You say you dislike christianity , surely this means you have not applied it .

Naturally you will not see a connection at the moment between christs wisdom and that of the kabbalah , because you will not allow yourself to entertain the thought. Yet I have entertained orthodox concepts of christianity with an open mind ?

 

[may]

I believe St John was stating that the number of the beast was not 666, but three seperate numbers, 600, 3 score (60) and six, for those that have wisdom.

three for making a point i would say ,
In the Scriptures, certain numbers have symbolic significance. The number seven, for example, is often used to symbolize that which is complete, or perfect, in God’s eyes. For instance, God’s creative week comprises seven ‘days,’ or extended time periods, during which God completely accomplishes his creative purpose regarding the earth. (Genesis 1:3–2:3) so the mans number of 666 certainly misses the mark of being perfect or conplete

The beast’s having "a human number," therefore, indicates that governments reflect the fallen human condition, the mark of sin and imperfection

 

[Scuba Pete]

Perhaps this scripture will shed some light on why we have "hardened our hearts" to adding anything to the Gospel:

Galations 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. NIV

 

[Quiddity]

Perhaps this scripture will shed some light on why we have "hardened our hearts" to adding anything to the Gospel:

Galations 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. NIV

I pray you realize that preach is oral and it assumes that it was explained and understood. Something the Bible can't do on it's own. How would the people know what was taught aside from their own interpretations?

 

[Omraam]

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Indeed Netdoc , so watch what you say ! Your treading on thin ice here , rejecting the laws of God , because you are confused.You do a great unjustice to Gods people by preaching what you are now , be careful !

My god will not have you going around telling everyone they will burn in hell if they dont listen to you . You will be dealt with !

 

[Nehustan]

Darkdale shows a shrewd understanding of my Lord. He was a rabid pacifist. The "wars" and "battles" he referred to were spiritual in nature as reflected in this scripture:

II Corinthians 10:1 By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am "timid" when face to face with you, but "bold" when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. NIV

Now I may be seriosuly mistaken but I think the quote you put is attributable to Paul, or should I say Saul, and I put about as much faith in him as I do the Inland Revenue/IRS. I actually hold Paul seriously accountable for the corruption of the religion of Jeheshuah and the ensuing syncretism (I do seem to be using this word alot on this forum) with Roman Pagan faith, in particular the rite of Sol Invictus, the undying sun. Let's just hope that Jehshuah forgives his executive decisions taken after an alleged meeting on the road to Damascus, were he was tasked with his evangelical mission to the Goyem. It is of course apparent to all with eyes that Christianity is naught but a solar cult and has very little to do with the messiach, or preceeding prophets, other than the traditions we are told come from his disciples, whom in number Paul fails to figure within. Leading on from this...

three for making a point i would say ,
In the Scriptures, certain numbers have symbolic significance. The number seven, for example, is often used to symbolize that which is complete, or perfect, in God’s eyes. For instance, God’s creative week comprises seven ‘days,’ or extended time periods, during which God completely accomplishes his creative purpose regarding the earth. (Genesis 1:3–2:3) so the mans number of 666 certainly misses the mark of being perfect or conplete

The beast’s having "a human number," therefore, indicates that governments reflect the fallen human condition, the mark of sin and imperfection

It is quite normal for those schooled in the mysteries to consider the number 666 a solar number, with the whole ressurection story being considered a solar rite in the fashion of the previously metioned 'Sol Invictus' or by the Aegyptian 'Osiris'. As I have said previously either in this thread or another it is said that the real crucifixion, albeit a spiritual one, occured in Aegypt. When the number 666 is broken down to Six hundred, three score, and six, it is possible to create the image of a crucified man, admitedly with only one nail. It would appear quite plain, as Jehshuah was as Jonah in the belly of the whale, the one who comes and claims crucifixion (tho' of course thousands were crucified!!!) to fulfil the solar rite is surely the beast.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Quite Victor,

I made sure that I used the word "Gospel" and not "Scripture". They are not the same! Unfortunately, many would like to add additional requirements (as Omraam has) for various reasons. Pride, confusion, hate, well you name it, and we can usually find an impetus OTHER than God.

As for interpreting the Bible: don't! One should seek to understand it and not rationalizing it. All Christians are priests, and if you open your heart to God's Spirit (in whatever form) then the scriptures open themselves up to you. Would you like scriptures on these teachings?

I pray you realize that preach is oral and it assumes that it was explained and understood. Something the Bible can't do on it's own. How would the people know what was taught aside from their own interpretations?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Dear sir,

It doesn't appear that I am the one adding to the Gospel. You contend that the Gospel is somehow incomplete: not able to be understood without your Kababallah.

Indeed Netdoc , so watch what you say ! Your treading on thin ice here , rejecting the laws of God , because you are confused.You do a great unjustice to Gods people by preaching what you are now , be careful !

BTW, you have a fine way of misrepresenting what I said. Could you please show me ANYWHERE that I have said the following???

My god will not have you going around telling everyone they will burn in hell if they dont listen to you . You will be dealt with !

I can't tell if your final atatement is a personal threat or YOUR way of telling me that I will be burning in hell. The first is reprehensible in an open forum and you should be ashamed. The second is hypocrisy at it's best and again, you should be ashamed. Peace!

 

[Quiddity]

Quite Victor,

I made sure that I used the word "Gospel" and not "Scripture". They are not the same! Unfortunately, many would like to add additional requirements (as Omraam has) for various reasons. Pride, confusion, hate, well you name it, and we can usually find an impetus OTHER than God.

As for interpreting the Bible: don't! One should seek to understand it and not rationalizing it. All Christians are priests, and if you open your heart to God's Spirit (in whatever form) then the scriptures open themselves up to you. Would you like scriptures on these teachings?

No it's ok. I think we agree on this but it's only when you and I start discussing further details that we may disagree. Thanks...

~Victor

 

[Scuba Pete]

No it's ok. I think we agree on this but it's only when you and I start discussing further details that we may disagree.

:149: Well, I am more than willing for you to repent! :biglaugh: Bwahahahaha!!! (For those checking in late: that was intended as a joke only)

 

[Omraam]

I can't tell if your final atatement is a personal threat or YOUR way of telling me that I will be burning in hell. The first is reprehensible in an open forum and you should be ashamed. The second is hypocrisy at it's best and again, you should be ashamed. Peace!

I mean neither , I dont need to do anything to do , you will do it to yourself , therefore there is no need for me to make any personal threats here , and God is not the monster you would have us believe him to be , so there is no hell.

I mean the laws of the world will deal with you , the universal laws that christ ,
" your lord " apparently , mentioned himself . Must I point out to you what these laws are ?

A christian , unaware of the laws he is supposed to be following , what ?

You cannot go around harrassing people like you do .Telling them that they will burn in hellfire , be punished by your God .

It is you who should be ashamed about the nature of what you say concerning christ.

 

[Omraam]

BTW, you have a fine way of misrepresenting what I said. Could you please show me ANYWHERE that I have said the following???

You mentioned earlier as a way to discredit the kabbalah ;

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

I,d say this is conclusive enough that you are a bible thumper who preaches eternal damnation .

 

[Scuba Pete]

Well then, you would be wrong again! Thanks for playing our game tonight and I am sorry that you got all the answers wrong. Johnny, tell our contestants about their parting gifts...