The real true fascism prevelant in the US.

[RestlessSoul]

Saying that they can do this is different from
making a case based on what they actually do.
So.....what have corporations done that's "fascist"?

Off the top of my head, I think it's safe to say that the Oil, pharmaceutical, and weapons industries make enthusiastic use of the lobby system in your country. You think they actively work to influence legislation out of a sense of public duty?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not really under the heading of "fascism".

Tell that to people who once lived in Chernobyl, Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, etc.

So is this thread really about fascism,
or just a rant against corporations?

Government can....
- Beat us.
- Shoot us.
- Arrest us.
- Steal from us.
- Imprison us.
- Conscript us.
- Evict us.

Corporations are little girls in comparison to The Man.

Not really. Look at credit corporations for example. They can ruin peoples lives, destroy a person's assets, implement garnishment and repossession, get you arrested, certainly steal from us, and who knows what else?

 

[Revoltingest]

Off the top of my head, I think it's safe to say that the Oil, pharmaceutical, and weapons industries make enthusiastic use of the lobby system in your country. You think they actively work to influence legislation out of a sense of public duty?

Your claim is still hypothetical, ie, no specific examples to address.
I think all lobbies work in their own interest. In addition to those you
cite, there are also, the elderly, blacks, Asians, unions, hunters,
stores, etc, etc. Everyone has government's ear, & that's how it
should be. The real issue is whether any are abusing this.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not really. Look at credit corporations for example. They can ruin peoples lives, destroy a person's assets, implement garnishment and repossession, get you arrested, certainly steal from us, and who knows what else?

They cannot have you arrested. But if you defraud them,
then government can consider it a crime, & arrest you.
Note that it's only government that can arrest, try, convict,
& imprison. Although they can also take your cash &
other assets without any due process in some cases.
BTW, if you abuse credit, eg, borrow money, but don't
repay it, you should expect adverse consequences.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think all lobbies work in their own interest. In addition
to those you cite, there are also, the elderly, blacks, Asians,
unions, hunters, stores, etc, etc. Everyone has government's
ear, & that's how it should be. The real issue is whether any
are abusing this.

Unlimited funds appear to give unlimited access to government's ear. So let's not kid ourselves the community organisers campaigning for drug free neighbourhoods and rehab programmes are on a level playing field with Purdue Pharma.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unlimited funds appear to give unlimited access to government's ear. So let's not kid ourselves the community organisers campaigning for drug free neighbourhoods and rehab programmes are on a level playing field with Purdue Pharma.

You're not giving any examples of corruption. If you do,
they should support the claim that it rises to the level of
fascism. What's the worst that a corporation has ever
done to you?

Let's consider fascism....
You're driving down the road. A corporation cannot stop you.
But government can stop you, take all your money, & shoot
or arrest you with impunity. Now that is fascism.

BTW, the Democratic National Committee is a corporation.

 

[RestlessSoul]

You're not giving any examples of corruption. If you do,
they should support the claim that it rises to the level of
fascism. What's the worst that a corporation has ever
done to you?

Let's consider fascism....
You're driving down the road. A corporation cannot stop you.
But government can stop you, take all your money, & shoot
or arrest you with impunity. Now that is fascism.

BTW, the Democratic National Committee is a corporation.

You want me to Google examples of corruption by US corporations? I could, but as there are no limits on the donations businesses and individuals can give to political campaign funds, there isn't really a need for corporations to break any laws in order to buy influence. So only the stupid ones would be technically guilty of corruption.

If you don't consider corporations funding politicians and buying political influence, with very little regulation of the practice, to be a threat to your democracy, then we probably have different concepts of what democracy actually is.

 

[Yerda]

Ask yourself....
What is the worst that corporations can do to you?

Good point, what's the worst corporations can do?

Well, they could take your home, poison your drinking water, enslave you, gamble your money away in the finance casino, poison your air, shoot you for joining a union, destroy you financially - locking you into legal battles that will leave you destitute and possibly in prison, they could scam the healthcare system making billions per year in fraud from taxpayer money, they could charge you $12 k to get an ambulance to the waiting room and not even be seen, the could make huge donations to political parties and offices in order to prevent legislation they don't like being enacted, they could give judges money to remand people to the prisons they've built and run at the taxpayer's expense, they could write legislation that regulates their competitors out of existence and have a sposored suit in your national assembly bring it to the floor, they could buy all the print, broadcast and social media then create an environment of division where they only thing that's never squabbled is the corporate ownership of the print, broacast and social media, they could destroy the conditions that make life on earth possible..

...well, you get the point.

 

[PureX]

Among the many harmful things corporations can do to you, is to gain such leverage over your government that it becomes “government of the privileged, for the privileged by the privileged.”

Revoltingest isn't going to acknowledged that has happened, and will demand endless "evidence" that he will likewise ignore.

Yup, and there it is.

 

[Quetzal]

Ask yourself....
What is the worst that corporations can do to you?
What is the worst that government can do to you
under color of authority?
The number & severity of possibilities points far more
to government, eg, theft, imprisonment, conscription,
beating. The worst corporations I've ever dealt with
have simply (generally possible) been replaced with
better ones. But government....it might mean moving
to another state or country.

This is a good perspective. Admittedly, I haven't watched the video yet so I may be straying a bit. But my protest is that corporations and gov'mnt are becoming one in the same via lobbyists. Now, I do not understand the details of how bad it is, but based on the limited information I know, I don't think it is trending in the right direction. I would prefer corporate bribes donations contributions to make their way out of politics.

 

[Kenny]

This is why the frothing antileftists of the far right would be really served to read Marx for once,

And then kill 3 million of your own people ?? !!

 

[Audie]

Good point, what's the worst corporations can do?

Well, they could take your home, poison your drinking water, enslave you, gamble your money away in the finance casino, poison your air, shoot you for joining a union, destroy you financially - locking you into legal battles that will leave you destitute and possibly in prison, they could scam the healthcare system making billions per year in fraud from taxpayer money, they could charge you $12 k to get an ambulance to the waiting room and not even be seen, the could make huge donations to political parties and offices in order to prevent legislation they don't like being enacted, they could give judges money to remand people to the prisons they've built and run at the taxpayer's expense, they could write legislation that regulates their competitors out of existence and have a sposored suit in your national assembly bring it to the floor, they could buy all the print, broadcast and social media then create an environment of division where they only thing that's never squabbled is the corporate ownership of the print, broacast and social media, they could destroy the conditions that make life on earth possible..

...well, you get the point.

I see a lot of very extreme statements about
" corporations" . All of them.

Zero mention of benefits from them.

Sunsistence farming or maybe hunt n gather
is what you get without them.

 

[Audie]

Revoltingest isn't going to acknowledged that has happened, and will demand endless "evidence" that he will likewise ignore.

Yup, and there it is.

Money is what gets privilege.
Those sans lucre get testy about it.

 

[Quetzal]

I see a lot of very extreme statements about
" corporations" . All of them.

Zero mention of benefits from them.

Sunsistence farming or maybe hunt n gather
is what you get without them.

You are hitting on a good point. For these discussions it is helpful to give specific examples. The blanket term "corporations" isn't helpful, is it?

 

[Audie]

You are hitting on a good point. For these discussions it is helpful to give specific examples. The blanket term "corporations" isn't helpful, is it?

It helps in identifying what is just a screed

 

[PureX]

You are hitting on a good point. For these discussions it is helpful to give specific examples. The blanket term "corporations" isn't helpful, is it?

Fascism by definition is a banding together of people by ignoring and/or subjugating their individual needs or desires. Corporations are the commercial equivalent of this. Keeping the many in lockstep allows them to overwhelm their opposition. But the result is the negation of the individual.

Bigger is not better for the rest of us. It's only better for those at the top of the bigest pyramid. The few are over-served while the many are underserved. Yet, the whole purpose of humans engaging in commercial trade is to improve the lot of everyone involved. So it makes no sense for people to engage in a commercial system that seeks to grossly advantage the few at the expense of the many. And this is why commercial incorporatization is fundamentally bad for us.

If you want a specific example, just consider how easy it is for the CEO of a large corporation to ignore the damage his decisions do to any individual customer or employee as compared to a small business owner who has to face and deal with his customers and employees directly on a regular basis.

 

[Heyo]

Your claim is still hypothetical, ie, no specific examples to address.
I think all lobbies work in their own interest. In addition to those you
cite, there are also, the elderly, blacks, Asians, unions, hunters,
stores, etc, etc. Everyone has government's ear, & that's how it
should be. The real issue is whether any are abusing this.

Can we at least agree on this:

that public interest has practically no effect on politics where economic interests do?

 

[Revoltingest]

You want me to Google examples of corruption by US corporations? I could, but as there are no limits on the donations businesses and individuals can give to political campaign funds, there isn't really a need for corporations to break any laws in order to buy influence. So only the stupid ones would be technically guilty of corruption.

If you don't consider corporations funding politicians and buying political influence, with very little regulation of the practice, to be a threat to your democracy, then we probably have different concepts of what democracy actually is.

I don't understand your graphs, but I'll respond
anyway.
Corruption isn't the same as "fascism", which is the
titular claim. Can anyone making that claim explain
how it rises to the level of fascism, & why it's worse
that governmental fascism, eg, the right of cops to
take money from us just because we have it...or of
cops to shoot us with impunity?

 

[Revoltingest]

Good point, what's the worst corporations can do?

Well, they could take your home.....

This is true....if you borrow money, & won't repay it.
But this is a good thing. Without such power, no one
would ever lend money. It's not fascism because it's
a choice. If you can't or won't repay a loan, then tis
best to not borrow.
Government has much greater power over us. It can
take your home even if you don't owe them any money,
or have committed no crime, eg, eminent domain, civil
forfeiture.

..... poison your drinking water...

Pollution is not fascism.

....enslave you...

Only government can enslave, eg, military conscription.

.......gamble your money away in the finance casino....

Any fool who gambles makes a choice to do so.
This is the opposite of fascism.
And what on Earth is a "finance casino"?

...poison your air...

Pollution isn't fascism.

....shoot you for joining a union...

What legislation makes this legal?
But government can shoot us with impunity.
Google "Daniel Shaver".

...destroy you financially - locking you into legal battles that will leave you destitute and possibly in prison...

Government does this regularly for its own benefit.
But I've never run across any corporation doing this.

...they could scam the healthcare system making billions per year in fraud from taxpayer money, they could charge you $12 k to get an ambulance to the waiting room and not even be seen, the could make huge donations to political parties and offices in order to prevent legislation they don't like being enacted, they could give judges money to remand people to the prisons they've built and run at the taxpayer's expense, they could write legislation that regulates their competitors out of existence and have a sposored suit in your national assembly bring it to the floor, they could buy all the print, broadcast and social media then create an environment of division where they only thing that's never squabbled is the corporate ownership of the print, broacast and social media, they could destroy the conditions that make life on earth possible..

...well, you get the point.

It's not productive to address all that point by point.
Tis just a rant that reminds me of a friend who sees
Marxists controlling everything....all just vague
conspiracies imagined behind everything.

People need boogeymen to demonize....capitalists,
corporations, The Patriarchy, The Oligarchy, Big Oil,
Big Pharma, The British Crown, The Illuminaniti, The
Jews, The Pope, etc, etc.

 

[Audie]

Corruption isn't the same as "fascism", which is the
titular claim. Can anyone making that claim explain
how it rises to the level of fascism, & why it's worse
that governmental fascism, eg, the right of cops to
take money from us just because we have it...or of
cops to shoot us with impunity?

The difference stands out in very stark contrast
in Hong Kong.

I wonder if anyone needs explanation.