The Reason Two-State Solution is Unachievable

[Kenny]

Well we shouldn’t deny the fact that Israel has put around a half million Jews in occupied territories which complicates a 2 state solution. Let alone alone the fact that the Knesset voted against a Palestinian state.

Knesset votes overwhelmingly against Palestinian statehood, days before PM’s US trip | The Times of Israel

www.timesofisrael.com

I would even argue that Israel efforts end especially nethenyahu never supported a 2 state solution because they believe in a greater Israel, and that would mean that their aim was to make sure a Palestinian state never will be a fact but rather a regime change to the countries surrounding them. This we know of the advise given to Netanyahu in 1995 that is known as ‘a clean break’

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Judging by all the miles of tunnels, the purchasing of weapons, the mantra of “from the river to the sea”, the stealing of food supply for the innocent, the taking of babies for hostages, the revelation that the plan was to continue the killing of innocent in Israel beyond what they accomplished, the reality that no Jews are allowed to go into Gaza… yes, I don’t think I would want that as a state either.

I wonder why Egypt would let there be tunnels that go into their country?

 

[Kenny]

It is also natural for Palestinians to support Hamas in the face to dehumanising violence, terror and oppression by the state of Israel.
It's self fulfilling prophecy. It's like making prophecy saying there will be a nuclear war in 2050 and religion lunatics launching nuclear weapons on 2050 to fulfill it. Such prophecies show why these sorts of end-time faiths are so dangerous.

Yes, that is a position that one can take. But the forming of Israel into a country that still has their customs and language (never happened in the history of mankind) cannot be “self-fulfilled”. So I wouldn’t agree with your viewpoint.

 

[Kenny]

Here is another excerpt of interviews of ordinary people in the streets.

x.com

x.com

 

[Estro Felino]

It has nothing to do with land.
It has to do with religion.
When the borders of Croatia, Slovenia and Italy were re-drawn after WW2, nobody protested.
The all three nations are Catholic.

The wars broke out where there were religious differences. Bosnia and Kosovo.

 

[sayak83]

Yes, that is a position that one can take. But the forming of Israel into a country that still has their customs and language (never happened in the history of mankind) cannot be “self-fulfilled”. So I wouldn’t agree with your viewpoint.

Obviously it's self fulfilled. Jewish population, by design and planning, bought land in that region and then, using opportunistic backing by Western nations at the *** end of their colonial empire, converted it into their own state expelling the Palestinian population from these regions.
100% self fulfilled. A for ruthlessness.

 

[Kenny]

Obviously it's self fulfilled. Jewish population, by design and planning, bought land in that region and then, using opportunistic backing by Western nations at the *** end of their colonial empire, converted it into their own state expelling the Palestinian population from these regions.
100% self fulfilled. A for ruthlessness.

Hmmmmm…. it was United Nations that did it, not the population.

Never has a land that has been conquered, its people flung to the far corners of this earth, ever maintained their language and customs and come back to create a nation again.

But your view does remind me of a quote of Jesus:

31 But he said to him, (T)‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets,(U)neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Judging by all the miles of tunnels, the purchasing of weapons, the mantra of “from the river to the sea”, the stealing of food supply for the innocent, the taking of babies for hostages, the revelation that the plan was to continue the killing of innocent in Israel beyond what they accomplished, the reality that no Jews are allowed to go into Gaza… yes, I don’t think I would want that as a state either.

I wonder why Egypt would let there be tunnels that go into their country?

Weird response and you proven my point. This thread is useless since you yourself don't wanna a 2 state solution. How are you criticizing Palestinians not wanting one?

 

[sayak83]

Hmmmmm…. it was United Nations that did it, not the population.

Never has a land that has been conquered, its people flung to the far corners of this earth, ever maintained their language and customs and come back to create a nation again.

But your view does remind me of a quote of Jesus:

31 But he said to him, (T)‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets,(U)neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Israel is a deliberate and artificial creation of the colonial empire of Britain.
The United Kingdom had agreed in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence that it would honour Arab independence in case of a revolt but, in the end, the United Kingdom and France divided what had been Ottoman Syria under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs. Another issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which Britain promised its support for the establishment of a Jewish "national home" in Palestine. Mandatory Palestine was then established in 1920, and the British obtained a Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations in 1922.[6]

During the Mandate, the area saw successive waves of Jewish immigration and the rise of nationalist movements in both the Jewish and Arab communities. Competing interests of the two populations led to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and the 1944–1948 Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine. The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine to divide the territory into two states, one Arab and one Jewish, was passed in November 1947. The 1948 Palestine war ended with the territory of Mandatory Palestine divided among the State of Israel, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, which annexed territory on the West Bank of the Jordan River, and the Kingdom of Egypt, which established the "All-Palestine Protectorate" in the Gaza Strip
1948 Palestine war - Wikipedia
During the war, massacres and acts of terror were conducted by and against both sides. A campaign of massacres and violence against the Arab population, such as occurred at Lydda and Ramle and the Battle of Haifa, led to the expulsion and flight of over 700,000 Palestinians, with most of their urban areas being depopulated and destroyed. This violence and dispossession of the Palestinians is known today as the Nakba (Arabic for "the disaster")[29] and resulted in the beginning of the Palestinian refugee problem.

 

[sayak83]

Who are the Palestinians.
They are the original descendents of farmer populations that settled in the region since the stone age. They were always there, though they have changed religions and cultures and languages as various cultures extended their dominance in that region. Evicting them from where they have lived for the last 10,000 years is basically the same injustice that has befallen the indigenous people throughout the world since the scourge of Western colonization began.
Origin of the Palestinians - Wikipedia
A 2020 study on human remains from Middle Bronze Age Palestinian (2100–1550 BC) populations suggests a significant degree of genetic continuity in Arabic-speaking Levantine populations (such as Palestinians, Druze, Lebanese, Jordanians, Bedouins, and Syrians), as well as several Jewish groups (such as Ashkenazi, Iranian, and Moroccan Jews).[39] Palestinians, among other Levantine groups, were found to derive 81–87% of their ancestry from Bronze age Levantines, relating to Canaanites as well as Kura–Araxes culture impact from before 2400 BCE (4400 years before present); 8–12% from an East African source and 5–10% from Bronze age Europeans. Results show that a significant European component was added to the region since the Bronze Age (on average ~8.7%), seemingly related to the Sea Peoples, excluding Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews who harbour ~ 41% and 31% European-related ancestry respectively, both populations having a history in Europe.[39]: 114


Note that several of the Jewish groups have the same ancestry. They were, and always have been people of Bronze Age Levant farmers.

 

[Flankerl]

Obviously it's self fulfilled. Jewish population, by design and planning, bought land in that region and then, using opportunistic backing by Western nations at the *** end of their colonial empire, converted it into their own state expelling the Palestinian population from these regions.
100% self fulfilled. A for ruthlessness.

So much anger over the Arabs incompetence to just found their own stupid country and instead go to war for everything and losing.

Btw if the Jews were just the pawns and subjects of the British Empire, why did they engage in a fight against them?
And why weren't the Arabs pawns and subjects of the British Empire when they had the same status as the Jews and afterwards even had British officers in their Armies while the Jews did not?

Ah so many uncomfortable questions.

 

[sayak83]

So much anger over the Arabs incompetence to just found their own stupid country and instead go to war for everything and losing.

Btw if the Jews were just the pawns and subjects of the British Empire, why did they engage in a fight against them?
And why weren't the Arabs pawns and subjects of the British Empire when they had the same status as the Jews and afterwards even had British officers in their Armies while the Jews did not?

Ah so many uncomfortable questions.

The British allied with the Zionists during the first world war to gain their support during the war. Probably for financial support. The local Palestinian population was never consulted before decreeing that there will be a nation state for the Jews there, who, at that time was less than 5% of the local population. Typical colonial move.
Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia

 

[Kenny]

Weird response and you proven my point. This thread is useless since you yourself don't wanna a 2 state solution. How are you criticizing Palestinians not wanting one?

I simply am saying that the man on the street apparently doesn’t want one. Everyone outside the location says they do but as the saying goes, “You can lead a horse to the water but you can’t make it drink”.

That’s what it “appears” to me and perhaps gives the understanding of why it never happens.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is also natural for Palestinians to support Hamas in the face to dehumanising violence, terror and oppression by the state of Israel.
It's self fulfilling prophecy. It's like making prophecy saying there will be a nuclear war in 2050 and religion lunatics launching nuclear weapons on 2050 to fulfill it. Such prophecies show why these sorts of end-time faiths are so dangerous.

Aye, with Christians dominating US government,
their belief in prophecies leads to steering towards
them. They've made Israel & the entire region a
powder keg, which will attract other major countries
to seek power there.

New Documentary Shows How American Evangelicals Are ‘Praying For Armageddon’ And Pulling The Levers Of Power To Achieve It – CPH:DOX

The film 'Praying for Armageddon,' premiering at CPH:DOX, says evangelicals are influencing American foreign policy to bring about the apocalypse.

deadline.com

Many Christians are attracted to death & destruction
because of what they believe will follow. Alas, many
will suffer for their delusion.

 

[Yerda]

I simply am saying that the man on the street apparently doesn’t want one. Everyone outside the location says they do but as the saying goes, “You can lead a horse to the water but you can’t make it drink”.

That’s what it “appears” to me and perhaps gives the understanding of why it never happens.

It doesn't seem like the controlling factions on either side have much interest in peacefully sharing the land.

 

[Flankerl]

The British allied with the Zionists during the first world war to gain their support during the war. Probably for financial support. The local Palestinian population was never consulted before decreeing that there will be a nation state for the Jews there, who, at that time was less than 5% of the local population. Typical colonial move.
Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia

Cool.

Now read further to the White Paper and perhaps the Nebi Musa Riot and the behaviour of the British police towards Jews during it.

that there will be a nation state for the Jews there

It's funny that the declaration is so short, yet you didn't even read it.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Absolutely zero, nilch, nada about a state.
A national home. It's almost as if they were vague on purpose because they had the Arabs on their other lap.

It's obviously very hilarious how there has always been the need for there to be an imperial power behind the Jews.
After all how else are we supposed to explain their achievements otherwise?

First the Russian Empire from which the Jews literally fled, then the British Empire, then the Jews transmorphed into Communist as the USSR was supposedly the new imperial hegemon, then the French because well why not and finally the Americans.

Who is going to be next to explain the failures away?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I simply am saying that the man on the street apparently doesn’t want one. Everyone outside the location says they do but as the saying goes, “You can lead a horse to the water but you can’t make it drink”.

That’s what it “appears” to me and perhaps gives the understanding of why it never happens.

Well it seems like you yourself don’t even know what you are talking about.

Cheers

 

[sun rise]

So, when there was a two-state potential… what did Hamas do with all the money to make it successful? Make tunnels, buy weapons, and then attack Israel.

One can only begin to wonder if the Muslim leaders are really just giving platitudes to continue the effort. Sweet words from the mouth when the heart is far from it. (factual evidence seen today)

My post was not about leaders when both sides have leaders that want death and destruction. And I'm in no way claiming that the path is easy or quick. Changing minds and hearts does not happen over night but it's the journey that we all should try to work towards.

If we look around the world over the past 100 years or so, we see over and over again that it's possible. And beyond that, to think that people can't change is to deny the message that religion preaches - that change is possible. To deny that hate can be replaced by love is to deny God and to do one's best to help that take place is to align with God's wish.

 

[GoodAttention]

The first step for anyone who isn't an Israeli or Palestinian is to support their governments to recognize both states, if they have not done so already.

There is no reason for the G7 countries and many others to hold out on this recognition, especially since Israel has clearly shown they have a "go it alone" mentality.

Islamic countries can follow suit or show their true colors.

 

[sayak83]

Cool.

Now read further to the White Paper and perhaps the Nebi Musa Riot and the behaviour of the British police towards Jews during it.


It's funny that the declaration is so short, yet you didn't even read it.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Absolutely zero, nilch, nada about a state.
A national home. It's almost as if they were vague on purpose because they had the Arabs on their other lap.

It's obviously very hilarious how there has always been the need for there to be an imperial power behind the Jews.
After all how else are we supposed to explain their achievements otherwise?

First the Russian Empire from which the Jews literally fled, then the British Empire, then the Jews transmorphed into Communist as the USSR was supposedly the new imperial hegemon, then the French because well why not and finally the Americans.

Who is going to be next to explain the failures away?

National home is a word far more insidious than a nation state. See, a nation state can be anywhere, but a national home is a nation state in a ethno-religious group's original "homeland", however construed. Much later, the Nazis will run with this idea to horrible ends. So basically, I was trying to diminish how bad the wording was.
You can do whatever what-about-ism you want. The fact is that the Zionist groups were able to buy land and immigrate to Palestinian under the active patronage of the British who brutally suppressed Palestinian resistance against such rampant population replacement.

1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia

Just because Europeans are oppressing the Jews, they cannot give away land of another group from some other place to them, displacing those people there.

 

[Flankerl]

Oh sorry I wasn't aware that I was interacting with someone like you.

National home is a word far more insidious than a nation state. See, a nation state can be anywhere, but a national home is a nation state in a ethno-religious group's original "homeland", however construed. Much later, the Nazis will run with this idea to horrible ends. So basically, I was trying to diminish how bad the wording was.

So long story short you just imagine what the word means according to you, not what it meant at the time in context.

That's fair, for you. Just don't expect others to join you in that.

You can do whatever what-about-ism you want. The fact is that the Zionist groups were able to buy land and immigrate to Palestinian under the active patronage of the British who brutally suppressed Palestinian resistance against such rampant population replacement.

So on top of not reading the Balfour Declaration you also didn't read the White Paper which literally stopped Jews from fleeing oppression elsewhere.

Again, fair.

Just because Europeans are oppressing the Jews, they cannot give away land of another group from some other place to them, displacing those people there.

It's okay, the Arabs also oppressed the Jews in their countries and finally expelled them.

They now are back in Israel not being Dhimmis to the Muslims.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how annoyed are you at that fact?