The Restitution Of All Things

[thomas t]

Thomas: I repeat, God is not a potential Saviour, He IS Saviour.

Jesus is the savior of everyone, that doesn't mean everybody gets saved by default.
A church of my acquaintance calls itself "church for the whole family" - this does not mean that a family will always enter in full there. The grandma might be sick, a teenager does not feel inclined... and yet: the name is right. This is a church for the whole family.
But still, this is not equivalent with saying that everyone enters as a matter-of -fact...

 

[FineLinen]

Jesus is the savior of everyone, that doesn't mean everybody gets saved.

Jesus is the savior of everyone, that doesn't mean everybody gets saved by default.

Thomas: My theology 101=

1. God is supreme.

2. His will prevails: always!

3. He is all powerful, capable of bringing to pass everything He determines shall be done.

4. His love is unchanging, it never fails: ever!

 

[Nova2216]

Nova: I most surely do not grasp such nonsense!

1 Corinthians 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.

Love’s Goal

All that love is, God is, for God is love. As the negative side of love is unselfish - seeks not her own - so her positive side is concern for others, a deep, ardent, all consuming concern: dauntless, self-sacrificing, invincible.

“Love never fails.”

Such is the divine essence and this it is that is imparted to the creature.

There can be no self-complacency with God, neither could He provide a self-satisfied salvation. Divine joy is in the fullness of love, and love is all-embracing.

To speak of a happy shepherd with an incomplete flock, or even of a happy flock with comrades missing, would be to malign both sheep and shepherd.

Heaven’s joys will be full only when sin’s sorrow cease. “Tis of mine” will be the yearning cry of the Good Shepherd Spirit in the bosom of both saint and Saviour until the last of all the lost has been gathered home.

Love cannot omit; His soul travail was for all.

Neither can love abandon or forget.

His purpose, as His promise, is “until He find it”.

Thus it is that He is yet to “see of the travail of His soul and be satisfied.”

And surely we too shall be satisfied when conformed to this likeness.

Oh, the fullness of heaven’s joy when sin’s sorrows shall have ceased! -Love’s Goal

All that love is, God is, for God is love. As the negative side of love is unselfish - seeketh not her own - so her positive side is concern for others, a deep, ardent, all consuming concern: dauntless, self-sacrificing, invincible. “Love never fails.” Such is the divine essence and this it is what is imparted to the creature.

There can be no self-complacency with God, neither could He provide a self-satisfied salvation. Divine joy is in the fullness of love, and love is all-embracing. To speak of a happy shepherd with an incomplete flock, or even of a happy flock with comrades missing, would be to malign both sheep and shepherd.

Heaven’s joys will be full only when sin’s sorrow cease.

“Tis of mine” will be the yearning cry of the Good Shepherd spirit in the bosom of both saint and Saviour until the last of all the lost has been gathered home. Love cannot omit; His soul travail was for all. Neither can love abandon or forget.

His purpose, as His promise, is “until He find it”.

Thus it is that He is yet to “see of the travail of His soul and be satisfied.” And surely we too shall be satisfied when conformed to this likeness.

Oh, the fullness of heaven’s joy when sin’s sorrows shall have ceased! -D. Buchanan-

Father seeks till He finds = Abba's Lost & Found

(1Jn 1:9) and (Acts 8:22) disagrees with you. These scriptures are instructions for christians who got caught up in sin.

Notice please.

In (1Cor.3:1-9) we see the text is about making Christians, planting a garden, or constructing a building.

Then the text turns to "the builder and his labor" and "the materials" which are used to construct the building, plants or Christians (vs 10-12).

The foundation of this building, garden or church is Christ (1Cor. 3:11).

The church is the people (lively stones) according to (Acts 8:1-5) (1Peter 2:5).

The "work" spoken of in (1Cor. 3:12-15) is referring to what is produced out of the builders efforts which would be plants in the garden, a building or a christian.

A plant may die as we see in (Jn 15:6), a building may burn, a christian may return to the world as did Simon in (Acts 8:13-24). Note also (Heb.10:26-31) (2Peter 2:20-22) (Luke 15)

Paul knew he could fall from grace once saved (1Cor. 9:27). Note (Gal. 5:4).

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


(1Cor.3) is not teaching "once saved always saved" if you read the text carefully.


Thanks

 

[thomas t]

Thomas: My theology 101=

1. God is supreme.

2. His will prevails: always!

3. He is all powerful, capable of bringing to pass everything He determines shall be done.

4. His love is unchanging, it never fails: ever!

I know that.
And yet, God also knows the side of the peaceful heaven dwellers who want to live in peace and who don't want to get harmed by those who tormented them on earth already.
You say God's will prevails always: he invited people to a party, yet they didn't come. Matthew 22:14
He wanted them in, but they didn't come.
Your approach does not explain this.

 

[FineLinen]

(1Jn 1:9) and (Acts 8:22) disagrees with you. These scriptures are instructions for christians who got caught up in sin.

Notice please.

In (1Cor.3:1-9) we see the text is about making Christians, planting a garden, or constructing a building.

Then the text turns to "the builder and his labor" and "the materials" which are used to construct the building, plants or Christians (vs 10-12).

The foundation of this building, garden or church is Christ (1Cor. 3:11).

The church is the people (lively stones) according to (Acts 8:1-5) (1Peter 2:5).

The "work" spoken of in (1Cor. 3:12-15) is referring to what is produced out of the builders efforts which would be plants in the garden, a building or a christian.

A plant may die as we see in (Jn 15:6), a building may burn, a christian may return to the world as did Simon in (Acts 8:13-24). Note also (Heb.10:26-31) (2Peter 2:20-22) (Luke 15)

Paul knew he could fall from grace once saved (1Cor. 9:27). Note (Gal. 5:4).

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.


(1Cor.3) is not teaching "once saved always saved" if you read the text carefully.


Thanks

Hi there Nova: Walking within the Lord is one of stages. These stages are degrees of glory that lead higher and higher into His expansive regions of change and transformation and being made like Him.

The Road is one of becoming. It is not static, but rather progressive in its attainment.

He is the Source: He is the Goal

 

[FineLinen]

I know that.
And yet, God also knows the side of the peaceful heaven dwellers who want to live in peace and who don't want to get harmed by those who tormented them on earth already.
You say God's will prevails always: he invited people to a party, yet they didn't come. Matthew 22:14
He wanted them in, but they didn't come.
Your approach does not explain this.

Thomas: The coming of one to the Master of Reconciliation is solely rooted in Him. To be one of His disciples has zero to do with flesh and blood.

"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." -John 1:13-

What Does John 1:13 Mean? "who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

You DID NOT CHOOSE ME....

 

[FineLinen]

I know that.
And yet...

There is no "and yet" !

1. God is supreme.

2. His will prevails: always!

3. He is all powerful, capable of bringing to pass everything He determines shall be done.

4. His love is unchanging, it never fails: ever!

 

[FineLinen]

Superior Plan A =

"God IS the Saviour of all mankind....."

Alternate plan b =

There is no alternate plan ! !

 

[FineLinen]

Why did Christ Die?

Why Did Christ Die? by A. P. Adams

The Second Death

https://www.godfire.net/Elwin/316 - THE SECOND DEATH - AP Adams.pdf

Judgment -A.P. Adams-

JUDGMENT BY: A.P. ADAMS – Kingdom Resources

 

[FineLinen]

The Higher Hope is the call of our Father to His groaning creation. That Hope is centered in Him and never expires. It reaches through every age, every dispensation, every dimension of the heavens, earth and underworld.

“Transformation isn’t sweet and bright. It’s a dark and murky, painful pushing. An unraveling of the untruths you’ve carried in your body. A practice in facing your own created demons. A complete uprooting, before becoming.” -Victoria Erickson-

"Nothing happens until the pain of remaining the same outweighs the pain of change.” -Arthur Burt-

We belong to the Author of the all & to the Author we shall return as the Finisher

 

[thomas t]

There is no "and yet" !

I think protection of peaceful heaven dwellers is an issue and I think God will take this seriously. Out of love. So I stay with my opinion: no to your doctrine. Since God's love never fails.

Your Universal Reconciliation sources are not Bible. These can't count as Bible.

"God IS the Saviour of all mankind....."

I told you in #41 (I'm copy-pasting here...):
Jesus is the savior of everyone, that doesn't mean everybody gets saved by default.
A church of my acquaintance calls itself "church for the whole family" - this does not mean that a family will always enter in full there. The grandma might be sick, a teenager does not feel inclined... and yet: the name is right. This is a church for the whole family.
But still, this is not equivalent with saying that everyone enters as a matter-of -fact...
How often do I have to repeat myself?

2. His will prevails: always!

I told you in #44 (again, I'm copy-pasting here):
You say God's will prevails always: he invited people to a party, yet they didn't come. Matthew 22:14
He wanted them in, but they didn't come.
Your approach does not explain this.
How often do we have to go round in circles?

Thomas: The coming of one to the Master of Reconciliation is solely rooted in Him. To be one of His disciples has zero to do with flesh and blood.

"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." -John 1:13-

What Does John 1:13 Mean? "who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

You DID NOT CHOOSE ME....

you just failed to address my post.

 

[FineLinen]

I think protection of peaceful heaven dwellers is an issue and I think God will take this seriously. Out of love. So I stay with my opinion: no to your doctrine. Since God's love never fails.

Thomas: There are a number of things within the Scriptures that declare the essence of God.

The Essence Of God =

He is FIRE, LIGHT, LOVE, SPIRIT, SAVIOUR. This is what encapsulates our wonderful Lord, working in tandem accomplishing His perfect goals.

Note

Essence =

Definition of ESSENCE

ESSENCE | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Characteristic =

Definition of CHARACTERISTIC

CHARACTERISTIC | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Your opinion is just that: opinion.

We are discussing the Holy Scriptures within whose light our opinions, good bad or ugly must stand.

The dozens of verses placed before us on this link speak of our Lord with majestic purposes towards which He is moving with precision! They flow from the sages/prophets of His Presence.

 

[thomas t]

Thomas: There are a number of things within the Scriptures that declare the essence of God.

The Essence Of God =

He is FIRE, LIGHT, LOVE, SPIRIT, SAVIOUR. This is what encapsulates our wonderful Lord, working in tandem accomplishing His perfect goals.

still, this doesn't mean that evildoers would suddenly stop sinning once they'd enter heaven...
there is a need for safety, as I said.

The dozens of verses placed before us on this link speak of our Lord with majestic purposes towards which He is moving with precision!

The verses are good. Beyond doubt.
However, they cannot prove your point: the teaching of universal salvation/ Universal Reconciliation.

 

[FineLinen]

still, this doesn't mean that evildoers would suddenly stop sinning once they'd enter heaven...
there is a need for safety, as I said.
The verses are good. Beyond doubt.
However, they cannot prove your point: the teaching of universal salvation/ Universal Reconciliation.

Thomas: The verses are good? My God, surely you jest?

They are the articulations of the Divine mind of what shall surely transpire. Head to your nearest Heavenly Bank and speak to the Head Banker.

My friend Thomas: there is precisely only one way to prove to you, or anybody, the reality of these wonderful articulations of Scripture.....speak to Him in some corner and hear Him respond. Stay in that corner of union and communion and do not return till the Bush burns before you.

 

[FineLinen]

Thomas: The verses are good? My God, surely you jest?

They are the articulations of the Divine mind of what shall surely transpire. Head to your nearest Heavenly Bank and speak to the Head Banker.

My friend Thomas: there is precisely only one way to prove to you, or anybody, the reality of these wonderful articulations of Scripture.....speak to Him in some corner and hear Him respond. Stay in that corner of union and communion and do not return till the Bush burns before you.

Thomas: I know a man who wrestled with what we are considering for nearly ten years. He one day had an encounter of all encounters as the Living One revealed Himself in a tiny measure and brought him to his knees in worship.

We must know for ourselves the splendor of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[thomas t]

My God, surely you jest?

(O)MG means using His name in vain, in my opinion.
I don't jest.
I'm not your friend, BTW.

Thomas: I know a man who wrestled with what we are considering for nearly ten years. He one day had an encounter of all encounters as the Living One revealed Himself in a tiny measure and brought him to his knees in worship.

We must know for ourselves the splendor of our Lord Jesus Christ

but don't generalize from that single case.

No, I don't buy into your "Universal Reconciliation" doctrine.

 

[FineLinen]

(O)MG means using His name in vain, in my opinion.
I don't jest.
I'm not your friend, BTW.

but don't generalize from that single case.

No, I don't buy into your "Universal Reconciliation" doctrine.

Thomas: The Lord is my God. He has been my God before I knew it. I now know after walking in union with Him for a few moons now, He is beyond anything imagined in my limited view of yesterday.

Whenever, if ever, you desire to explore the root koine of the verses presented thus far, we will proceed.

I am well aware you "do not buy" universal reconciliation. It cannot be bought, grasped or believed by any other route than His disclosure.

I regret to learn of the BTW, but the Fellowship of the Mystery continues regardless.

I wish you well on your journey into Him!

 

[FineLinen]

Our Father is revealed in the most intimate terms possible by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ

His Name is Abba, Dearest Daddy.

Dearest Daddy will never let us go, ever! The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, ever!

 

[FineLinen]

The resurrection of damnation/ judgment

John 5.29=

What Does John 5:29 Mean? "and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment."

Rotherham's Emphasized Translation=

Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that hears, my word, and believeth in him that sent me, hath life age-abiding, and, into judgment, cometh not, but hath passed over, out of death into life. Verily, verily, I say unto you: There cometh an hour, and now is, when, the dead, shall hearken unto the voice of the Son of God, and, they who have hearkened, shall live. For, just as, the Father, hath life, in himself, in like manner, unto the Son also, hath he given, life, to have, in himself; And, authority, hath he given him, to be executing, judgment,—because, Son of Man, is he! Do not be marveling at this: because there come an hour, in which, all they in the tombs, shall hearken unto his voice, and shall come forth,—they who, the good things, have done, unto a resurrection, of life; but, they who the corrupt things, have practiced, unto a resurrection, of judgment.

Jonathan Mitchell N.T. Translation=

::Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation::

“Don’t you folks be constantly amazed at this, because an hour is repeatedly (habitually; continually) coming within which ALL MEN (Everyone) – the ones within the tombs (graves) WILL HEAR His voice,

“and they will come out: the ones doing virtue (making or constructing good) into a resurrection of Life; the ones practicing careless (base, worthless, cheap, slight, paltry, inefficient, thoughtless, common or mean) things into a resurrection of separation and evaluation for a decision (judgment).”

J.B. Phillips=

Jesus said to them, "I assure you that the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. What the Son does is always modelled on what the Father does, for the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does himself, Yes, and he will show him even greater things than these to fill you with wonder. For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them live, so does the Son give life to any man he chooses. The Father is no man's judge: he has put judgment entirely into the Son's hands, so that all men may honour the Son equally with the Father. The man who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him. I solemnly assure you that the man who hears what I have to say and believes in the one who has sent me has eternal life. He does not have to face judgment; he has already passed from death into life. Yes, I assure you that a time is coming, in fact has already come, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and when they have heard it they will live! For just as the Father has life in himself, so by the Father's gift, the Son also has life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is Son of Man. No, do not be surprised - the time is coming when all those who are dead and buried will hear his voice and out they will come - those who have done right will rise again to life, but those who have done wrong will rise to face judgment!

Definition of JUDGMENT

koine Greek = krisis =

Primarily denotes a separating then a decision.

 

[FineLinen]

The Benefits Of God's Judgment

God’s judgments are always true judgments; they always fit His perfect standard of righteousness and truth.

Many think that at some time in the future God will set aside a day or a time when He will reveal their many secret sins, failures and shortcomings, and hand out punishments accordingly. They know they can’t argue with God, strike a deal with Him or bribe Him in any way, so they fear His judgment. They don’t know that His judgments are like radar to a pilot – to correct the error and to get us to our destination. God wants a relationship with His children!

The Benefits of God's Judgment: Article from The Good Seed