the right religion

[Kilgore Trout]

I'll grant that it could have taken some amount of time -- Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin, half-brother of Fëanor himself (who forged the Silmarils) and brother of Fingolfin (who wounded Morgoth in single combat). She had some fire in her, that's for sure.

Still, time is no issue for a Maia like Sauron. He seemed perfectly content to allow himself to be captured by the Númenoreans to corrupt them from within to their doom. He seemed fine with handing out the Nine to powerful and iron-willed men, even Númenorean royalty (whose will was stronger than other men) and just waiting for them to fall into corruption one by one. He seemed fine hiding out in Dol Guldur to draw out the hand of the White Council so he could just feint back to Mordor and announce himself openly as the Dark Lord. I think Sauron's okay with playing the waiting game

An interesting thing is that it's explicitely stated that the One is a band of gold: Tolkien seemed to intend that pieces of Arda itself were the equivalent of Morgoth's ring of power, especially substances and objects that evoked jealousy and greed (such as gold). So who's the real Lord of the Ring now?

Which Harry Potter movie was that in?

 

[religion99]

1. That'll take me ages. I plan to do it eventually though
2. Don't agree with your example but I get your point about the contradictions
3. True that
4. I already do
5. Which would that be?

I know a book , written about 400 years ago , author of whose has already gone through the pain of performing steps 1 to 4 for majority of the regions in existence in India at that time. This includes Islam , Buddhism , Hinduism and Atheism.

Results of his findings are described in Chapter 8 of the book. Name of the chapter is "Analytical Study of Different Religions" .

Link to the first page of chapter 8 can be found at:

Jain World

Use "Next" Image in the bottom of the page to go to next page and read the entire chapter 8.

Please make your own conclusions and please let me know your thoughts.

PS: Author of the book was killed by the King for his outspokenness , truthfulness and smartness ( Always a dangerous combination).

 

[Riverwolf]

3. If a religion says two contradictory paths lead to happiness then it is wrong as well , because two contradictory causes cannot produce same effect.

This isn't actually necessarily true. Elation, for example, can be felt by various means. Sex is one of the primary ways most people can experience it, but it can also be felt in play (physical, mental, virtual...). Elation can be felt during the act of giving, but some people feel it during combat. And, of course, it can be felt in meditation for some people (but not for all people.)

 

[Tonymai]

there r many religion in the world, but surly there r only one right religion, but how could we reach the right believe, the right path?

All religions will right themselves when all of them surrender spiritual sovereignty to God the Father. This means no one religion claim to be the best because God is no respective of religions just like He is no respective of persons.

 

[Photonic]

This isn't actually necessarily true. Elation, for example, can be felt by various means. Sex is one of the primary ways most people can experience it, but it can also be felt in play (physical, mental, virtual...). Elation can be felt during the act of giving, but some people feel it during combat. And, of course, it can be felt in meditation for some people (but not for all people.)

It's not entirely the same feeling though. The elation you associate with combat adrenaline rush isn't the same thing as a sexual elation of pleasure.

 

[Riverwolf]

It's not entirely the same feeling though. The elation you associate with combat adrenaline rush isn't the same thing as a sexual elation of pleasure.

Why wouldn't it be? Granted, I've never been in actual combat, but still, elation is elation, both in this case caused by adrenaline.

 

[Photonic]

Why wouldn't it be? Granted, I've never been in actual combat, but still, elation is elation, both in this case caused by adrenaline.

I have been in combat, the feeling is ridiculously different, and it's not just emotional.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I said usually its other people doing the convincing, I said I tend to stray from that.

OK, thanks. I understand your position better now. And I agree. The only authority I accept is my own, which is how everyone does it down deep, I think. Some embrace an exterior prophet, but that seems like mostly a mindgame to me – an effort to convince ourselves that we’re accepting God’s Truth from above rather than concocting it ourselves. But in the end, we each make a personal decision about which prophet to embrace, and we personally decide how we’ll understand his words. So we are each our own prophet, and even if we accept the other guy’s Holy Spirit, our own Holy Spirit still has to interpret it for us.

It’s all just personal opinion, all the way down.

... I don't like people to assert that they have authority over me, by telling me what is and isn't right and what is and what isn't more efficient or conducive to society.

I applaud you for that and wish more folks would see it that way. Down with the (damned) Man!

By institutions I was getting at that schools, churches, hospitals, etc, are all built to organize and teach a proper way to live. People question this God character too much, when instead they should be questioning exactly how we are structured psychologically, and physically. It could help to prevent certain courses of action that appear to be harmless but have negative consequences (like in politics and such).

Yeah, institutions make me feel creepy sometimes.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Ok, so if someone doesn't know something, why should they be punished for not knowing it?

I’m sorry but I’ve lost my place. Who should be punished for not knowing something? I’ve heard that ignorance is no defense in legal matters.

If the justification is infinite you can have absolute knowledge: such as in Descartes' cogito ergo sum, by which we can know that we have thought without the possibility of doubt.

Cogito ergo sum is a unique knowledge claim. It simply asserts that I exist since I can write or speak. The cogito could be anything. Eating, fishing, talking, whatever. Since I exist (as demonstrated by these words) I exist.

So I’m surprised that you would use it as an example of human knowledge. Could you give two more quick examples of ‘doubtless knowledge’ – neither of which are assertions of the speaker’s existence?

No, the same response I gave above applies here. Knowledge is separated between tentative knowledge and absolute knowledge.

You keep using that passive voice. Knowledge is separated. Knowledge is defined. If I may make a small complaint, I have access to many works of philosophy and am not interested in academic opinions regarding the nature of knowledge. Instead, I’m curious how you, personally, think of it. That’s why I visit debate forums rather than libraries.

Anyway, I disagree with you. Knowledge is not separated into tentative knowledge and absolute knowledge... not by me. There is always a chance that I am wrong about anything. That’s how it seems to me.

When we say we "know" something, most of the time we're saying "this is true as far as we're able to tell based on all evidence and justifications that we've been exposed to."

OK. So you seem to be saying that most people, in most instances, are using the language in a way contrary to your own understanding of knowledge – which requires that known stuff be ‘true.’

I agree. In virtually every usage, “I know....” actually means, “It’s my personal opinion that....”

Which is why I think we can know the right religion from the wrong one.

I don't see how -- they would have to have some sort of justification to call it knowledge. What could their justification possibly be?

I’m sure they could provide you with all the justification in the world. Fulfilled prophecies, magically-impossible language by an illiterate. Whatever.

So I’m not sure what you’re saying. You don’t think they can offer justification? Or simply that they can’t offer justification which you personally find compelling?

You didn't offer any in this story, so you'd have to be more specific. So far you're just describing someone with a belief -- the justification for the belief and the truth value of the belief are ambiguous from this description, so it's about as far from being "knowledge" as it's possible to be.

They seem like unimportant details to me. Most everyone can offer justifications and claim ‘truth’ for any of their beliefs. You might deny that their arguments are compelling, and they will deny that your own justifications and claims of truth are compelling.

So you’ll deny that they know what they know, and they’ll deny that you know what you know. Me, I think it’s more sensible to accept that you both do know what you know. Knowledge is, after all, simply a great psychological certainty that our knowledge matches exterior reality.

So, let me get this straight: when you normally say that you "know" something, you're actually stating an opinion?

Sure. Just as we all are. How could it be anything more than opinion? The choice of ‘know’ over ‘believe’ is simply a claim to greater certainty. (Although it does often seem to be a claim of magical powers, as I mentioned.) But it doesn’t mean that a known thing is ‘true’, while a believed thing might not be. How could it? We are fallible.

Or am I reading you wrong? If so, I have a hard time seeing how this could lead to a rational or consistent worldview; and I mean no offense by that.

I love it when people challenge the rationality of my worldview. It’s why I’m here. If there’s anything specific about mine which seems inconsistent to you, I urge you to confront me with it. Trip me up. Ask me a question which I can’t answer.

We can check people's knowledge claims by checking their justification. This is what epistemology is all about.

Of course. How else can we work to improve our opinions except by checking the other guy’s justifications? Do Quranic claims of fulfilled prophecy compel us moreso that Biblical claims? Is Muhammad’s language actually magical?

 

[Riverwolf]

I have been in combat, the feeling is ridiculously different, and it's not just emotional.

Okay, then with regards to sex vs. combat, I trust your experience.

But I think my point still stands.

 

[Orias]

OK, thanks. I understand your position better now. And I agree. The only authority I accept is my own, which is how everyone does it down deep, I think. Some embrace an exterior prophet, but that seems like mostly a mindgame to me – an effort to convince ourselves that we’re accepting God’s Truth from above rather than concocting it ourselves. But in the end, we each make a personal decision about which prophet to embrace, and we personally decide how we’ll understand his words. So we are each our own prophet, and even if we accept the other guy’s Holy Spirit, our own Holy Spirit still has to interpret it for us.

It’s all just personal opinion, all the way down.

I applaud you for that and wish more folks would see it that way. Down with the (damned) Man!

Yeah, institutions make me feel creepy sometimes.

See most people are capable of realizing the things we are talking about, but most people just deny it.

 

[Boanerge]

Was 88 pages really necessary? Really? In the end, did we arrive at the Right Religion? No? Of course not. So then what was the point of all this? I would like to put my two-sense in but there's a billion topics in one here. I wouldn't know where to start.

 

[connermt]

In your terminology then the "right religion" isn't the same as the one true religion where everything is fact.

It depends on if you want to live by facts or beliefs I guess

 

[Muffled]

Narakaloka is also temporary... if seen as literal, it's a place where one can either a) be born into a hellish state of existence or consciousness, or b) a realm where sinful people go to to get meted by punishments, and then they are born again into this material existence, until they eventually come to God-consciousness.

If taken metaphorically, it's a state of mind separate from God.

I suppose being born into the lowest heaven would be about the worst physical existence possible. That is not the same thing as having a spiritual existence in fire. I can't imagine how boring a fiery existence would be but it might serve to change a persons mind about aligning with God.

 

[Muffled]

If all religions contradict each other i.e. only our gods are real, then yes there is only one right religion. The problem is trying to find which one is right (if any)

JHVH says that if your god can't help you he isn't the One True God.

 

[Muffled]

Here are the steps to find out:

1. Read principal religious book of all the religions.
2. Make sure there is no contradictions in the Religion with your own observations. Eg if they talk about almighty God and if you can detect that there is no evidence of it , reject that religion.
3. If a religion says two contradictory paths lead to happiness then it is wrong as well , because two contradictory causes cannot produce same effect.
4. Make sure there are no internal contradictions in the Axioms of the religion. Eg if religion tells to show compassion to animals and then also tells to kill them under certain circumstances , reject that religion.
5. If you follow these guidelines judiciously , you will be left with exactly one religion in the end.

1. I have read the Bible, Qu'ran, Vedas, the main principles of Buddhism, the Gita and a little of (the Granth?). None of the scriptures other than the Bible offers the salvation from sin that Jesus offers.

2. I don't believe in subjectivity. You will get what you want but it is unlikely to be the truth.

3. I don't know of any scriptures that actually say that.

4. This appears to be a bogus requirement. Rules can have exceptions.

5. I have my doubts about how effective that would be.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

1. I have read the Bible, Qu'ran, Vedas, the main principles of Buddhism, the Gita and a little of (the Granth?). None of the scriptures other than the Bible offers the salvation from sin that Jesus offers.

Just like Harry Potter wasn't the one that took the ring to Mordor...

 

[9Westy9]

JHVH says that if your god can't help you he isn't the One True God.

Then we might as well disregard them all

 

[riley2112]

no, i follow the religion based on both the faith and fact, and at the god's eyes , it's surly only one right religion
and surly u can test the belief if it's right or wrong, we have already the proper tools for that "our minds"

What about religion is based on fact and how can you test it? As for proper tools being your mind. Your mind and my mind can see the same facts and still come up with different conclusions. Which would give you what we now have. A lot of different religions. We have gained nothing.

 

[waitasec]

I suppose being born into the lowest heaven would be about the worst physical existence possible. That is not the same thing as having a spiritual existence in fire. I can't imagine how boring a fiery existence would be but it might serve to change a persons mind about aligning with God.

great :sarcastic using fear to manipulate a desired response.
excellent