the right religion

[waitasec]

What is wrong with you? The picture was off the side of the screen that I was copying the text from. When I highlighted it I didn't notice that the picture got copied as well until I pasted it. Everyone who has ever copied anything has the same thing happen to them and you know that, which makes you dishonest. Your not worth the effort, I resume waitsec blackout mode.

i don't believe you. pictures have to be manually entered with the URL of the image.

where is the edited post and can you send me a link with out the http://

thanks.



one wonders why a self proclaimed christian has to resort to dishonest tactics to justify their actions.



for instance:
here is an arbitray article that includes a photo
i highlighted a portion of the article and pasted everything including the photo and got this:

FOLLOW: 20th Century Fox Executive, Gavin Smith, Gavin Smith Missing, Gavin Smith Spotted, Gavin Smith Spotted In Restaurant, Missing Fox Executive, Missing Gavin Smith, Los Angeles News

The family of missing FOX executive Gavin Smith will reportedly announce Tuesday a $20,000 reward for information that will help bring him home.
The family of missing Fox executive Gavin Smith will announce Tuesday a $20,000 reward for information that will help bring him home, CBS reports.

Smith was last seen May 1 in Oak Park, Calif. Believing their father may have driven off a cliff, Smith's three sons joined the police in their search of the canyons. They also covered the city with missing person posters of their father and started a website, findgavinsmith.com, to encourage others to help.

However, some individuals told NBC that they saw Smith and a tall female companion at Taco Temple, a popular restaurant in Morro Bay, on May 7.

no photo.

to confirm you try it and see if the photo shows up

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/gavin-smith-fox-executive-20000_n_1571256.html

 

[9Westy9]

Ditto. Is it to much to request you include the context that the original statement was made in.

I was responding to your post about how God is somehow exempt from his own characteristics in reference to any evil he has committed in particular the crucifixion of his own son. I responded by pointing out that you're utilising special pleading and you've yet to give me an adequate response

I have already had to give up on you makeing sincere, concise, or meaningful points.

All the points I've made so far have been sincere and meaningful. I first pointed out that one of your comments to waitasec was extremely arrogant and closed minded by you declaring you're being right without understanding the opposing view. I then pointed out your special pleading when you tried to show that God was somehow still omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent despite his crucifying of his son (unless you deny one of these characteristics in which case you should have said so before.)

Do I have to give up on honesty and relevance as well.

I'm being dishonest and irrelevant? That's a good one!!!

 

[Oryonder]

I already answered that. If your name is written in the lambs book of life by virtue of a salvation experience (being born again) then you are a sheep. Go back and read the lengthy answer I already gave it has much more info. Let me know if you can't find.

Matt 25 says nothing about being born again or any such thing. It is funny that you accuse me of "cutting out parts of the Bible" when this is what you are doing right now.

You have already tried and completely failed to show this so repackaging it or restateing it doesn't help. Maybe the bible you have after you have cut out the parts which you happen to not like is inconsistent but the actual Christian bible is.

We are going to look closely at what is inconsistent and what is not.

This was your answer to Matt 25 "how does jesus separate the Sheep from the Goats.

That he seperates the unsaved, and excepts the saved who will have shown their salvation in good works. What exactly is the pupose of Christ's death in your theology? We can or cannot follow the law with or without the crucifixion.

This is not about what I think about Christs death .. this is about on what basis Jesus grants salvation.

In the above passage you claim that from Matt 25 you read that people are saved (by being born again) and that Jesus accepts those who have done good works.

You go on to clarify what you mean here

The bible specifically says those whos names are written in the lambs book of life will be the Sheep. Your name is written in the book when you accept him as savior through faith and are born again just like the thief on the cross

In summary then:

1) Only people that are "born again" by accepting Jesus as savior through faith get into the book of life and only these people are saved.

2) Of the "saved" Jesus only accepts the ones that have done good works.

Interesting but unfortunately for your argument there is nothing in this passage about needing "faith". In fact, there is nothing in the passage from Matt 5 (sermon on the mount about needing "faith" either.

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left .

Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"

It is quite clear from the above passage that you have to go through Jesus but this does not mean you need "faith" of any kind.

Jesus says "I am the way" .. Yep .. clearly from this passage at the end of days Jesus acts as the Judge and no one gets without going through him.

This does not mean that you have to be "born again". Obviously from this passage .. and others .. to get in you have to go "through Jesus". Jesus is the gatekeeper.

The test to get past the gatekeeper has nothing to do with baptism and everything to do with heeding the message of Jesus.

Here is apoligist website (the one that you likely get much of your material from) that gives the verses showing "justification by faith" Verses showing justification by faith. | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Not one verse from Matt, Mark, or Luke .. things that make ya go hmmmmm. Well at least those of us that have the ability to question.

The link even makes an attempt to explain away James .. but it is a pathetic and amature attempt full of logical fallacy and misconceptions.

The fact that there is not one verse from Matt, Mark and Luke .. but verse after verse in Pauline writing and a more tactfull but similar theme in Johannine writing shows the inconsistancy of theme and message.

That James had to speak directly and at length on the issue shows that he was at odds with Pauls message.

 

[1robin]

i don't believe you. pictures have to be manually entered with the URL of the image.

You are absolutely wrong. I know what I did. If you insinuate I am lying again I will terminate any future discussions with you. I have no idea how to even do what you are claiming I did.

where is the edited post and can you send me a link with out the http://

I will send you anything you want if you will admit you are wrong if it turns out to be exactly what I said. Do you want the link to the site where I copied from and the post where it was? I am not a computer genius and I am unsure what link you want.

one wonders why a self proclaimed christian has to resort to dishonest tactics to justify their actions.

I have no reason to deny anything associated with that picture in fact I will find it and purposely post it this time for you if you doubt that. As long as it is not a violation of the sites rules which combined with someone giving me a reasonable explanation for it's offensive nature to them is why I removed it in the first place. Exactly what is it you think I am trying to cover up or deny? I have no reason to deny the fact that I purposely posted the picture if I actually did. I am certainly not ashamed of it or worried what you think about it in any way whatsoever. I have no idea what my motivation for dishonesty could possibly be, of course you never make much sence anyway.

 

[waitasec]

You are absolutely wrong. I know what I did. If you insinuate I am lying again I will terminate any future discussions with you. I have no idea how to even do what you are claiming I did.

I will send you anything you want if you will admit you are wrong if it turns out to be exactly what I said. Do you want the link to the site where I copied from and the post where it was? I am not a computer genius and I am unsure what link you want.



I have no reason to deny anything associated with that picture in fact I will find it and purposely post it this time for you if you doubt that. As long as it is not a violation of the sites rules which combined with someone giving me a reasonable explanation for it's offensive nature to them is why I removed it in the first place. Exactly what is it you think I am trying to cover up or deny? I have no reason to deny the fact that I purposely posted the picture if I actually did. I am certainly not ashamed of it or worried what you think about it in any way whatsoever. I have no idea what my motivation for dishonesty could possibly be, of course you never make much sence anyway.

Actually you are as usual wrong. I probably should have posted it but it showed up by accident when I copied and posted.

how is it possible to copy a photo in a post that has to have a URL manually inserted?


i'm waiting....and i will continue to remind you of your sin of deception until you explain or fess up....


just don't include the http:// and nothing will post i will do that as anyone else can....the preview post botton is very handy that way

 

[1robin]

I was responding to your post about how God is somehow exempt from his own characteristics in reference to any evil he has committed in particular the crucifixion of his own son. I responded by pointing out that you're utilising special pleading and you've yet to give me an adequate response

I will now that you have graced us with the context. In order to meaningfully assert that God is wrong then you have to appeal to a standard outside the bible. The bible clearly claims it was a moral and loving act. That standard would have to have moral sovereignty over it's subject (God). Your standard is an insuffecient, subjective, unjustifiable, personal opinion. So the necessary standard to accomplish what you are asserting doesn't exist.

All the points I've made so far have been sincere and meaningful. I first pointed out that one of your comments to waitasec was extremely arrogant and closed minded by you declaring you're being right without understanding the opposing view. I then pointed out your special pleading when you tried to show that God was somehow still omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent despite his crucifying of his son (unless you deny one of these characteristics in which case you should have said so before.)

There is no inconsistency with God allowing Jesus to freely chose to sacrifice himself and his ominsience, or omnipotence. To be all powerful does not entail that he must do all things. He can chose to do whatever he wants. Omnipotence doesn't dictate will. It was an act of benevolence for him to suffer for others. When a soldier gives his life for his friends he is given medals not accused of malevolence. Your reasoning is flawed.

I'm being dishonest and irrelevant? That's a good one!!!

No, that would be a bad one or two.

 

[1robin]

how is it possible to copy a photo in a post that has to have a URL manually inserted?

I don't even know what you are talking about. I don't know how to input a URL.

i'm waiting....and i will continue to remind you of your sin of deception until you explain or fess up....

I will assume you didn't read my earlier post about accuseing me of dishonesty and allow this one last time.

just don't include the http:// and nothing will post i will do that as anyone else can....the preview post botton is very handy that way

I told you I am computer challenged. Do you want a link to the site or me to post the picture or what? I am as bad with computers as you are with theology.


Ok I just found the site again and copied and posted the text and the picture without doing whatever you were talking about so what do you need.

 

[waitasec]

I told you I am computer challenged. Do you want a link to the site or me to post the picture or what? I am as bad with computers as you are with theology.

yes, just don't include the http:// at the beginning of the link and the link will not post

or if that is to difficult for you to figure out, PM me with it.

 

[1robin]

yes, just don't include the http:// at the beginning of the link and the link will not post

or if that is to difficult for you to figure out, PM me with it.

www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

This is the link to the site without any http:// is that what you need. I wish you would hurry up. I want my apology before I have to leave. And you better not pull any garbage as I said I just copied and posted it again.

 

[9Westy9]

I will now that you have graced us with the context. In order to meaningfully assert that God is wrong then you have to appeal to a standard outside the bible. The bible clearly claims it was a moral and loving act. That standard would have to have moral sovereignty over it's subject (God). Your standard is an insuffecient, subjective, unjustifiable, personal opinion. So the necessary standard to accomplish what you are asserting doesn't exist.

You can run with that if you want. It just means you have to agree with all your God's actions as being objectively moral (and thus correct for us to follow)

There is no inconsistency with God allowing Jesus to freely chose to sacrifice himself and his ominsience, or omnipotence. To be all powerful does not entail that he must do all things. He can chose to do whatever he wants. Omnipotence doesn't dictate will. It was an act of benevolence for him to suffer for others. When a soldier gives his life for his friends he is given medals not accused of malevolence. Your reasoning is flawed.

The problem is that Jesus didn't need to die if God did his job right the first time. He could have made humans in a more perfect way and yet didn't, hence "sin" came into the world. Although even now God could just forgive everyone or forgive people who asked without crucifying Jesus yet he crucified Jesus anyway.

 

[waitasec]

How to Go to Heaven!

It is very simple to be saved and takes only a minute to explain. Please let me show you how to get to Heaven from the Bible, God's Word...

Man is a sinner.
Isaiah 53:6, “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
John 3:3, “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”
Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
There is a price on our sin―eternal death in Hell.
Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
2nd Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 20:15, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 21:8, “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
Jesus paid that price by dying on the cross and shedding His blood; Christ was buried and rose again!
Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
1st Timothy 1:15, “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”
1st Peter 1:18-19, “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ...”
1st Corinthians 15:1-4, “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.”
By faith in Jesus Christ ALONE we can be saved.
Salvation is NOT found in a religion or good works, but in a Person... The LORD JESUS CHRIST!

John 11:25, “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.”
John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
John 6:40, “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Mark 1:15, “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Acts 26:18, “To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”
Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
1st Corinthians 3:11, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
Galatians 3:26, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”

this what i get when i highlighted every thing including the photo...
and lookey here
no photo.

care to explain this?

Actually you are as usual wrong. I probably should have posted it but it showed up by accident when I copied and posted.

 

[1robin]

this what i get when i highlighted every thing including the photo...
and lookey here
no photo.

care to explain this?

Probably but why bother what do I have to do to show you? Wait a minute are you saying that I could have posted the picture only if I included the link at the bottom manually.

 

[Oryonder]

www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

This is the link to the site without any http:// is that what you need. I wish you would hurry up. I want my apology before I have to leave. And you better not pull any garbage as I said I just copied and posted it again.

Interesting link but it does not agree with your philosophy.

Unbelief is the only sin which can keep you out of Heaven.

You claimed earlier that one needs to do "good works"... and of course this is also what is claimed over and over again in Matt.

What is also interesting from this link is that all the quotes that support this fellows position come from Pauline and Johannine scripture.

The one passage he gives from Mark does not support his position at all.

Mark 1:15, “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”

Mark says to belief in the gospel "the words of Jesus" which has zero to do with "born again salvation".

 

[waitasec]

quote me....do you see this.....................^icon? (the one with the mountains)that is what one uses to upload photos

Probably but why bother what do I have to do to show you? Wait a minute are you saying that I could have posted the picture only if I included the link at the bottom manually.

not necessarily at the bottom..anywhere within your post
yes, but there is something interesting to note, to be fair, there is no link to the photo in that article. however i am really confused how you were able to post a picture without entering a URL...

perhaps a moderator can assist.

 

[1robin]

You can run with that if you want. It just means you have to agree with all your God's actions as being objectively moral (and thus correct for us to follow).

I do believe that however I do not always act consistent with that and so you could say I act like I don't believe it at times. Also I only have to believe in the ones he says are applicable to me not ones meant for Jews three thousand years ago. Does that address your point?

The problem is that Jesus didn't need to die if God did his job right the first time. He could have made humans in a more perfect way and yet didn't, hence "sin" came into the world. Although even now God could just forgive everyone or forgive people who asked without crucifying Jesus yet he crucified Jesus anyway.

He could not have made people with freewill who could not chose to sin. His just forgiveing people would not have addressed the seriousness of the issue, actually he did just forgive anyone who will believe in christ (but that entails the understanding of the seriousness of the issue) If he just waved sin away without payment his absolute sence of justice would be compromised. Even if you you find some personal reason to find this undesirable. Can you not consider it may be true regardless or maybe your way of thinking isn't correct. Billions of people disagree with you. It isn't proof but surely it makes you think.

 

[1robin]

quote me....do you see this.....................^icon? (the one with the mountains)that is what one uses to upload photos


not necessarily at the bottom..anywhere within your post
yes, but there is something interesting to note, to be fair, there is no link to the photo in that article. however i am really confused how you were able to post a picture without entering a URL...

perhaps a moderator can assist.

I appreciate you honesty. I assure you I have nothing to hide, I honestly didn't care about that picture one way or the other.

 

[1robin]

Interesting link but it does not agree with your philosophy.

I swear you are something else. The purpose of that site was to explain why salvation is by grace/faith. What is it you think my position is, maybe that will clear your strange points up.

You claimed earlier that one needs to do "good works"... and of course this is also what is claimed over and over again in Matt.

I never said that as a condition for salvation. However of course good works should be done to please God, fulfill our duty, stay out of temporal trouble but not for salvation.

What is also interesting from this link is that all the quotes that support this fellows position come from Pauline and Johannine scripture.

That was in the bible the last time I checked.

The one passage he gives from Mark does not support his position at all.

Well it is not as explicit as I would have liked but it sure doesn't demand works in that verse. What do you think that verse is saying?

Mark says to belief in the gospel "the words of Jesus" which has zero to do with "born again salvation".

Why bother posting an assertion you know I won't agree with without some new persuasive evidence. What do you call Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus.

 

[Oryonder]

I never said that as a condition for salvation. However of course good works should be done to please God, fulfill our duty, stay out of temporal trouble but not for salvation.

The depths of your denial are truly deep.


In Matt 25 Jesus clearly separates the Goats from the Sheep by works. It is those that have done good works that gain eternal life

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"

The passage says nothing about "salvation by faith". Jesus in this passage says "the righteous" are those that have done good works.

[
That he seperates the unsaved, and excepts the saved who will have shown their salvation in good works.

Here you "appear" to say that both works and faith are required by Jesus in Matt 25... that only the "saved" who have shown their salvation in good works will gain eternal life.

Is this what you mean ?

 

[1robin]

The depths of your denial are truly deep.


In Matt 25 Jesus clearly separates the Goats from the Sheep by works. It is those that have done good works that gain eternal life

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"

The passage says nothing about "salvation by faith". Jesus in this passage says "the righteous" are those that have done good works.

I have already given you the most accepted commentarie on the issue. I have explained why you are wrong. I have given you other verses that show you are wrong. I have no desire to continue that.

Here you "appear" to say that both works and faith are required by Jesus in Matt 25... that only the "saved" who have shown their salvation in good works will gain eternal life.

Is this what you mean ?

I will admit that if you are looking for that you could find it in what I said. The meaning intended by what I said was that a genuine faith will of course have good works but they are not used as a condition of salvation and that is what all the endless amounts of stuff I have posted from others has shown as well. I will leave you with this.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames
This fire is the refinning fire at the judgement that test works to determine reward not salvation. I would post the commentaries but you will ignore them but here is the link anyway.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

You are a sinner (Romans 3:10,23; Isaiah 64:6).
You deserve to pay for your sins in the fires of hell (Psalm 7:11, 9:17; Romans 6:23, Revelation 20:15, 21:8; James 2:10; Jude 1:7; 2 Thessalonians 1:9).
Jesus paid for your sins with His blood on the cross: He died, was buried and rose again 3 days later (Romans 5:8; John 3:16,17; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
It is Jesus' blood that cleanses your sins away (Ephesians 1:7, 2:13; Colossians 1:14,20; Hebrews 9:22, 10:19; 1 Peter 1:18&19; 1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5)
Jesus is God Almighty (John 1:1, 14: 1 Timothy 3:16; Revelation 19:13).
Jesus never sinned, He was perfect (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15)
Jesus was born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14)
Jesus Christ is Lord

No wonder you hate Paul and John they destroy your illusion. You still have not told me what the Thief on the cross did for works. You have never layed out a possible works salvation system (it can't be done just think on it).

 

[sojourner]

If that was all God said it would be a worthless religion.

What is worthless about reconciliation?

Regardless a requirement with no clear direction and standard would be meaningless.

I thought Christ is the standard?