the right religion

[Muffled]

I believe this is truth found in Gods written word----- Jesus came and started one single religion,God never used more than one single religion,because there is no need for more than one single religion, afterall there is only one truth.
This religion would be united in love and peace worldwide.

A religion provides a way to practice the truth. The old way (before Jesus) men had to practice the truth with limited help from God (Islam), the new way in Jesus is the practice of truth is given as a gift from God.

 

[waitasec]

There is only one truth but everyone finds Him differently. Many don't find Him and many reject Him because they prefer the lies.

and you would know that wouldn't you...

birds of a feather...

 

[kjw47]

A religion provides a way to practice the truth. The old way (before Jesus) men had to practice the truth with limited help from God (Islam), the new way in Jesus is the practice of truth is given as a gift from God.

Good day Muffled---- Before Jesus, the israelites were Gods people--they didnt practice islam?

 

[Oryonder]

Two systems making contradictory claims to absolute truth can't possibly both be correct. Either one, the other, or neither is correct. If Jesus' says he is the way the truth and the life and no one will see the father except through him and all other religions propose different versions of the same old man made standard of working your way to heaven idea, then both Christianity and all the rest can't be correct. If Christianity is true they are false and vice versa. I do not think a benevolent God God would hide his word in all kinds of books making contradictory claims.

Jesus will at the right hand of the Father as Judge/Gatekeeper. You have to get through the gate keeper in order to get into the Kingdom.

What Jesus is judging is works as stated clearly in numerous passages.

"faith alone/ without works" is then a contradiction of what Jesus says is a requirement for entrance into heaven.

James 2 points out this contradiction and addresses it through the whole Chapter stating "Faith without works is DEAD" which he repeats 3 times in case some did not get it on the first round.

To think that you can go around raping, killing, and doing all kinds of other horrible things and then just show up and Claim "I have faith" will do you little good according to Jesus. Not only that but "faith alone" makes absolutly no sense from a rational perspective.

Proverbs does not say "seek stupitidy" .. it says seek knowledge.

This includes figuring out that parts of the Bible are nonsense written by man based on the whim of the editor rather than the authentic teachings of Jesus.

 

[1robin]

it is characteristic of our natural world. and since we live in the natural world that is all that concerns me. if one lives for the afterlife, then one is already dead and since it is impossible to be dead while alive, one then becomes a stick in the wheel of progress (forward momentum). faith is a stick in the wheel of progress. the idea of heaven encourages taking the now for granted...which hinders the momentum as the now is all we have that will take us to the next now...

If we all wind up in the end as only star dust then your value system is meaningless. When man denies God his rightful place he must then adopt another "God" to fill the void. Some of the most common and impotent are: 1. knowledge (intellectualism) 2. Progress 3. Mother nature etc.... These new God's we create are irrational. If we all wind up as unconscious matter what relative good or evil we do during our blink in time is futile. Everything ends in heat death; no one lives on, no purpose, no meaning, just futile nihilism.

edit:
i am referring to the level of knowledge as it increases in time.
therefore, this is the criteria that i use to determine that the idea of heaven counters newtons 2nd law of motion.

This is a new level of metaphysical confusion for you. Knowledge is an abstract concept. It has no physical properties to be governed by physical law. You can make some rules or laws for knowledge if you want but you can't misapply laws that belong in another field and extrapolate from them anything of value.

so our opposing opinions reflect newtons 3rd law of motion in dealing with the differences in acceleration as they collide...one is accelerated with the logic of the natural world the other is being accelerated with the wishful thinking of a world that cannot be verified. you tell me, which of these ways of thinking has more magnitude in the real world?

Your enshrinement of intellectualism is the equivalent of a man walking to the electric chair commenting on what his favorite color is. Wait just a bit and none of it matters. As I said man has a God shaped vacuum in his soul when God is rejected a very common practice is to substitute him with ourselves and our arrogant distorted view of how much we know. God knew this and gave many verses like this one to point out the folly:
New Living Translation (©2007)
Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.
New Living Translation (©2007)
This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength
http://bible.cc/romans/1-22.htm
Which world view has more value or magnitude? That is one of the easiest questions there is.
Your system:
1. Has no way to establish absolute concepts of right or wrong.
2. Has no foundation for establishing any absolute value or sanctity to man.
3. Provides no ultimate meaning for anything.
4. Gives no purpose to anything.
5. Makes every action and endeavor of man futile busy work.
6. The ultimate end of everything is a cold, motionless, and unconscious heat death. What difference did it make that you may have given to the poor or volunteered at the hospital? You do not need God to do these things but he gives them a foundation and a reason that Atheism can’t provide.
Biblical system:
1. Mine has the only valid way to establish absolute morality.
2. Gives sufficient foundation for the ideas of inalienable rights, human dignity, the equality and sanctity of man.
3. Provides a framework of meaning and explains the individual roles of things within in.
4. Provides and explains the purpose behind the concepts that leave Atheist's with only one response "Oh well".
5. Gives an ultimate purpose, meaning, and motivation for the works of man. Promises that ultimate justice will be served in the end.
6. The ultimate end of everything is that you get exactly what you chose. Eternal separation from God. Or eternal life with him.
I could argue that even if Christianity was false it is still better than a system without it.

 

[waitasec]

If we all wind up in the end as only star dust then your value system is meaningless.

if we all wind up in heaven forgetting about our loved ones who enrich our lives today then this valued system is not only meaningless but borderline sociopathic.

When man denies God his rightful place he must then adopt another "God" to fill the void. Some of the most common and impotent are: 1. knowledge (intellectualism) 2. Progress 3. Mother nature etc.... These new God's we create are irrational.

what evidence do you have that supports this nonsense? wishful thinking...?

If we all wind up as unconscious matter what relative good or evil we do during our blink in time is futile. Everything ends in heat death; no one lives on, no purpose, no meaning, just futile nihilism.

i imagine you as a kid being very upset at the fact that santa didn't really exist.
like i said, this faith undermines what we have right now. that is all we know, and your rationality of holding blind faith as a virtue goes against everything you do in your life.
you don't walk in blind faith when you decide to cross the street with out looking...please.

Knowledge is an abstract concept. It has no physical properties to be governed by physical law. You can make some rules or laws for knowledge if you want but you can't misapply laws that belong in another field and extrapolate from them anything of value.

do you even know what you are saying? just because there is a little bit of knowledge doesn't mean the level of our knowledge encompasses everything.
it seems that you have found a place that keeps you from going forward, because you think you have arrived. your dead to the living world because you are living to die.
not for me.
i value the here and now, you do not it seems....

 

[1robin]

if we all wind up in heaven forgetting about our loved ones who enrich our lives today then this valued system is not only meaningless but borderline sociopathic.

This arguement is what is sociopathic. First, you just made that up. I know of no verses that are descriptive of what we will remember or forget in Heaven. Second your system is far worse as it imposes mandatory unconsciousness of these same people you mention. At least even in your version of Heaven you invented we will still have contact with our loved ones that are in heaven. In your system we will not have contact with anyone we ever knew. Is it any wonder I believe your view of the bible is based on preference and bias? You actually accuse the bible of something that you do not know is true and defend a system that actually will produce the very complaint you made against the bible. Something is very askew in your reasoning.

 

[waitasec]

This arguement is what is sociopathic. First, you just made that up. I know of no verses that are descriptive of what we will remember or forget in Heaven.

if one arrives in heaven and some of their loved ones are not there they
a) are aware of it
or
b) are not aware of it
one would
a) cease to be in heaven
b) live as a brainless zombie god always wanted

but whatever works for you.

and this is sociopathic
matthew 10
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law —
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

 

[waitasec]

This arguement is what is sociopathic. First, you just made that up. I know of no verses that are descriptive of what we will remember or forget in Heaven. Second your system is far worse as it imposes mandatory unconsciousness of these same people you mention. At least even in your version of Heaven you invented we will still have contact with our loved ones that are in heaven. In your system we will not have contact with anyone we ever knew. Is it any wonder I believe your view of the bible is based on preference and bias? You actually accuse the bible of something that you do not know is true and defend a system that actually will produce the very complaint you made against the bible. Something is very askew in your reasoning.

whats wrong with accepting finality?
besides if one is aware that some of their loved ones are not in heaven isn't that accepting the finality of their relationship with them, much like what we experience in the now...?

 

[waitasec]

Which world view has more value or magnitude? That is one of the easiest questions there is.
Your system:
1. Has no way to establish absolute concepts of right or wrong.
2. Has no foundation for establishing any absolute value or sanctity to man.
3. Provides no ultimate meaning for anything.
4. Gives no purpose to anything.
5. Makes every action and endeavor of man futile busy work.
6. The ultimate end of everything is a cold, motionless, and unconscious heat death. What difference did it make that you may have given to the poor or volunteered at the hospital? You do not need God to do these things but he gives them a foundation and a reason that Atheism can’t provide.

in other words, this world view gives power to the individual and holds the individual to their culpability within the level of their understanding.

Biblical system:
1. Mine has the only valid way to establish absolute morality.
2. Gives sufficient foundation for the ideas of inalienable rights, human dignity, the equality and sanctity of man.
3. Provides a framework of meaning and explains the individual roles of things within in.
4. Provides and explains the purpose behind the concepts that leave Atheist's with only one response "Oh well".
5. Gives an ultimate purpose, meaning, and motivation for the works of man. Promises that ultimate justice will be served in the end.
6. The ultimate end of everything is that you get exactly what you chose. Eternal separation from God. Or eternal life with him.
I could argue that even if Christianity was false it is still better than a system without it.
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in other words you would rather move to north korea
that should be a good boot camp for ya

this is also very telling

Biblical system:
1. Mine

1robin = the god of the bible

 

[1robin]

if one arrives in heaven and some of their loved ones are not there they
a) are aware of it
or
b) are not aware of it
one would
a) cease to be in heaven
b) live as a brainless zombie god always wanted

I reject your choices. I will substitute a more realistic version.
1. The bible promises that at least you will be with your relatives that chose God forever. You will never suffer pain, misery, heartache, death, or loss etc.....
2. Your systems promises you will never see anyone ever again. You will cease to exist and nothing you did will matter.

The fact you find 2 preferable to 1 is disturbing.


Since it is impossible to determine what will take place in Heaven since God is not restricted to human logic or choices then speculation is meaningless. However your competing system is the worst possible situation in this context than any imaginable one in heaven, so your contentions are useless.

but whatever works for you.
and this is sociopathic
matthew 10
34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
"‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law —
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

As I have stated many times and quoted from the bible the unspiritual cannot understand spiritual things and consider them foolish. This has nothing to do with the subject we were discussing. I guess seeing the futility of your position on the subject you reached for the kitchen sink. These verses are meant to be understood in a spiritual sense. The subject matter of the bible is the most volatile, contentious, and profound in human history. Yes it will divide people because we must choose either God or Satan (by default) to serve and that will divide everyone. Biblical issues are far greater in importance than even our family ties (which the bible says are important as well). Since this new topic is a diversion tactic and would require some time to investigate I would rather deal with the issue we were discussing and will end this here.

 

[1robin]

whats wrong with accepting finality?
besides if one is aware that some of their loved ones are not in heaven isn't that accepting the finality of their relationship with them, much like what we experience in the now...?

If you prefer utter meaningless, futility, and non existance then you are welcome to it. The nature of life and reality suggests to me that there is a purpose and meaning to all this. I have no resistance to finality other than it doesn't make sence and I do not think it is true.

 

[waitasec]

I reject your choices. I will substitute a more realistic version.
1. The bible promises that at least you will be with your relatives that chose God forever. You will never suffer pain, misery, heartache, death, or loss etc.....

so you willfully ignore the obvious dilemma of the absent ones...
good for you, i am glad that you have found a level of disconnect with potentially everyone you know

2. Your systems promises you will never see anyone ever again. You will cease to exist and nothing you did will matter.

at lest my system doesn't hold onto a double standard...
but what do you call it when one ignores one standard and adheres to the other?

The fact you find 2 preferable to 1 is disturbing.

like i said, you are going to face that regardless with those that didn't make it...

that is why the idea of heaven is nonsense

 

[waitasec]

If you prefer utter meaningless, futility, and non existance then you are welcome to it. The nature of life and reality suggests to me that there is a purpose and meaning to all this. I have no resistance to finality other than it doesn't make sence and I do not think it is true.

what are you talking about...?
i value the now...
but it is you that doesn't right?

 

[waitasec]

As I have stated many times and quoted from the bible the unspiritual cannot understand spiritual things and consider them foolish. This has nothing to do with the subject we were discussing. I guess seeing the futility of your position on the subject you reached for the kitchen sink. These verses are meant to be understood in a spiritual sense. The subject matter of the bible is the most volatile, contentious, and profound in human history. Yes it will divide people because we must choose either God or Satan (by default) to serve and that will divide everyone. Biblical issues are far greater in importance than even our family ties (which the bible says are important as well). Since this new topic is a diversion tactic and would require some time to investigate I would rather deal with the issue we were discussing and will end this here.
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as i said before....these are meaningful relationships which are subjected to ones intentional willingness to deem them meaningless when it comes to god and heaven...sorry, but that just makes my stomach turn.

talk about being self serving.

congratulations on reaching enlightenment

 

[1robin]

so you willfully ignore the obvious dilemma of the absent ones...
good for you, i am glad that you have found a level of disconnect with potentially everyone you know

My system at least allows you to see some of your loved ones. Your system guaranties you will see none of them ever again. Who is it that is disconnected again? Let's just say for the heck of it that you will have no memory of the ones that aren't there. There is no draw back compared to your system. Your system is worse in every category especially the specific one you mention.

at lest my system doesn't hold onto a double standard...
but what do you call it when one ignores one standard and adheres to the other?

What?

like i said, you are going to face that regardless with those that didn't make it...

that is why the idea of heaven is nonsense

Heaven is equal to or better than your system in every single aspect. This is by far the worst point you have ever made with me.

 

[1robin]

as i said before....these are meaningful relationships which are subjected to ones intentional willingness to deem them meaningless when it comes to god and heaven...sorry, but that just makes my stomach turn.

talk about being self serving.

congratulations on reaching enlightenment

I have simply mentioned the implications of a well known and obvious biblical concept. It is very logical that if a person is opposed to God (the default position) and does not have the holy spirit then spiritual truths will make no sence. If you view the bible within the context of denial it will be missunderstood.

 

[waitasec]

My system at least allows you to see some of your loved ones. Your system guaranties you will see none of them ever again. Who is it that is disconnected again? Let's just say for the heck of it that you will have no memory of the ones that aren't there. There is no draw back compared to your system. Your system is worse in every category especially the specific one you mention.

so what...you are purposefully ignoring the dilemma here.
is that what faith does to people?

What?

you are purposefully ignoring the dilemma of the missing ones
the second standard...

Heaven is equal to or better than your system in every single aspect. This is by far the worst point you have ever made with me.

how so? at least everyone in my life is meaningful...
not just those that make it.

 

[waitasec]

I have simply mentioned the implications of a well known and obvious biblical concept. It is very logical that if a person is opposed to God (the default position) and does not have the holy spirit then spiritual truths will make no sence. If you view the bible within the context of denial it will be missunderstood.

that doesn't matter. how would you feel about a loved one who didn't make it? sad, happy or indifferent?

and if you were to feel sad for them, then perhaps your god will feel jealous and cast you out....or even weirder, if you would feel sad for them and god knew you would then perhaps you would be right there with them...burning in hell.

what a nice god you worship...

 

[Nakosis]

As I have stated many times and quoted from the bible the unspiritual cannot understand spiritual things and consider them foolish. This has nothing to do with the subject we were discussing. I guess seeing the futility of your position on the subject you reached for the kitchen sink. These verses are meant to be understood in a spiritual sense. The subject matter of the bible is the most volatile, contentious, and profound in human history. Yes it will divide people because we must choose either God or Satan (by default) to serve and that will divide everyone. Biblical issues are far greater in importance than even our family ties (which the bible says are important as well). Since this new topic is a diversion tactic and would require some time to investigate I would rather deal with the issue we were discussing and will end this here.

Yeah, well that means no one can understand except what has been shown to them. And, what we are shown we have to trust.

I find I can't reason out and trust that reasoning based on what I read. However what I'm shown I find written about. It gives some confidence that at least the author had some understanding of what I've experienced.

Still doesn't give anyone authority over anything that hasn't been revealed.

I don't think a person can reason out what they haven't been shown. It is difficult to not start thinking to know beyond what you've been shown. I suspect that is why we end up with so many denominations. People receive some spiritual experience and start thinking it gives them license to interpret the Bible for the rest.

People who don't understand, there is no reason to think less of them our think any greater of one's self. It seems to me we are subject to the will of God. I can't make myself or anyone else understand. I have to wait and hope God will provide myself and others what they need.