outhouse
Atheistically
Raised by nuns in a private church school and a theist for 40 years, so I have that covered as well. Sorry your not making any ground here.
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The Science of Ghosts
- Thread starter Mycroft
- Start date
Raised by nuns in a private church school and a theist for 40 years, so I have that covered as well. Sorry your not making any ground here.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
What is the environment in which spiritual beings exist....like as earths worms live in earth, fish in water, man in air, etc..?There are no such things as "ghosts"....for the simple reason that there is nothing that survives the death of the human body. The soul is the whole living, breathing organism according to the Bible's definition, so when the person dies, the soul dies. (Ezek 18:4)
The Bible speaks of "spirits" who inhabit an invisible realm, but they are not spirits of the dead. They are beings of a higher creation who are not material creatures, not composed of matter, like us.
The definition of the word "spirit" in the Bible (Greek, pneuʹma. Hebrew, ruʹach) is "wind" or "breath". In English we know that the word "pneumonia" pertains to a lung condition and "pneumatic" tires are full of air. Human lungs are also full of the air we breathe and it keeps us alive. When our "spirit" (last breath) leaves our body, we die. (Psalm 146:4) There is no more consciousness. We go back to the dust as God told Adam. (Gen 2:19; Eccl 9:5, 10) The Bible likens death to "sleeping". (John 11:11-14)
When Adam was created, he was not given a soul....when God gave Adam breath (spirit) he "became" a soul.
If Adam was told that he would go back to where he came from....where was Adam before God created him? Where were we before our parents created us? We all go back to the same place. We "sleep" waiting for Jesus to resurrect us, just like he did Lazarus. (John 5:28, 29)
Belief in an immortal soul came from Platonic Greek ideas that infiltrated Christianity in the early centuries when Greek culture was influential. It does not originate in the Bible, in fact it makes the Bible's teaching of a resurrection meaningless.
There are rebel spirits however, who want humans to believe that we don't really die. These can masquerade as the spirits of the dead in order to perpetuate the first lie that their leader ever told..."you surely will not die". God said we would...so who wasn't telling the truth?
Oh, well.....that explains everything.
You won't find God in Christendom. He has never personally been part of that church system. How could he be? They left him...so he left them....centuries ago, just as he abandoned apostate Judaism for the same reasons. (Matt 23:37-39)
There were no nuns in the first century, no popes, no cardinals, no fancy dress or idols, no elaborate cathedrals or monasteries and no priests either. Did you know that? The church was the congregation and Jesus said to "call no man your Father on earth". It seems that everything Jesus told the church NOT to do, Catholicism did it.
Spirit beings inhabit the spirit realm. Material beings inhabit the material world.
Originally, God never intended for material beings to be transformed into spirit creatures and go to heaven...he already had millions of spirit creatures up there with him.
There was one reason and one reason only why opportunity was opened up for some humans to go there....but not all. Can you tell me why?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Ok....so spirit creatures must be made of denser spirit than the spiritual space they move in.....as air is denser than our bodies?
Are you serious?
You are going to apply human understanding to creatures who exist in a realm that we cannot explore...and of which we have zero experience or understanding?Really?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
No...I am applying logic....unless of course you think there is such a thing a vacuum in which spiritual beings exist?Are you serious?
Really?
You are flying blind here sunshine.....no one knows where heaven is, or what it is like except for a few snatches given to a few privileged ones in visions.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
No mortal has ever seen heaven and never will...but there are certain universal principles that are immutable ....one is that God is omnipresent...so there is no nothing anywhere anytime... Since God is spirit....spirit is omnipresent... spiritual beings thus must exist, move, and have their being in spirit.. Because God is unknowable to the mortal mind...does not mean one can not use intuition to apprehend at least some of the sublime aspects of the depths of transcendent reality...
Can I have some scripture for that please....I can see God's Omniscience and I can see God's Omnipotence in the Bible, but i cannot see Omnipresence at all. In fact Jesus gave God a location in the Lord's Prayer. Other Bible writers too give God a location....heaven.(2 Chron 6:21) If heaven is a place inhabited by immaterial beings, then it obviously has properties which are are unknown and unknowable to mere mortals unless God reveals them. He hasn't as yet.
Though we may not be able to dwell in the presence of the Almighty as mortals, we are given glimpses of the heavenly realm. Those like the apostle John who were granted such visions had difficulty describing them in human language.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Proverbs 15:3 .....Jeremiah 23:24 .... Psalm 139:7-10 (Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.) ....you can only speak for yourself...people are not equal.....
Agreed and that's what I mean....the limitations of the mortal mind can be transcended if the student is up to it.....not in the short term but in time....
Prov 15:3:
"The eyes of Jehovah are everywhere, Watching both the bad and the good."
Jeremiah 23:24:
“Can any man hide in a concealed place where I cannot see him?” declares Jehovah. “Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares Jehovah."
Psalm 139:7-10:
"Where can I escape from your spirit, And where can I run away from your face? 8 If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there, And if I were to make my bed in the Grave, look! you would be there. 9 If I would fly away with the wings of the dawn To reside by the most remote sea, 10 Even there your hand would lead me And your right hand would take hold of me."
This is not omnipresence, it is the power of an omniscient deity. He is all knowing and all powerful but God is spoken of as having a location. We can never be in a place where God cannot see us, know what we are dealing with, and send his spirit to support us.
1 Kings 8:49:
"then hear from the heavens, your dwelling place, their prayer and their request for favor, and execute judgment for them"
John 16:28:
"I came as the Father’s representative and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.”
Heb 9:24:
"For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf."
There are things that I believe humans will never comprehend. We have limitations that spirit beings apparently do not.
When angels needed to come to earth to deliver messages to God's servants, they had the power to materialize. Can we comprehend this ability? Is there a scientific explanation for it? Will humans ever be able to duplicate this ability? I don't think that was in the plan.
outhouse
Atheistically
outhouse
Atheistically
Who says any angel has ever came anywhere at any time?
Yes, its called mythology.
outhouse
Atheistically
And imagination stays in the conscious mind until someone writes something down and calls it theology or mythology.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The concept of omnipresence was conveyed in those passages that way because there was no single word for God being everywhere in ancient Hebrew...just as, for example, there was not a single word concept to represent 'homosexual' in ancient Hebrew....so it was conveyed by the phrase..... a man lying with another man in a bed as with a woman...
God can not be known by a mortal for sure...but some souls are nearer to realizing the truth of God than others... for as Jesus said to the Samaritan lady...the time is now that God...who is spirit, is being worshiped in spirit... How does a physical being worship the Divine spirit in spirit?
So should "we" care about yours....or the lack of it?
Well, it does have credibility, but perhaps just not with you. Are you the only debater here?
Well, God did, but I don't expect you to accept that. If you don't believe in God, then his messengers are hardly going to get a look in.
Yes, I have heard it said......but even myths can have a basis in fact. Greek mythology I believe is based on the pre-flood situation in Genesis.
outhouse, no one can make you believe anything. All they can do is present you with the reason why "they" believe something and allow you to make up your own mind.
If you don't believe us, then I think we get it.
outhouse
Atheistically
outhouse
Atheistically
There is no such thing as pre flood. No global flood ever took place.
You have no credibility