the science proof that the Prophet Muhammad was existed lol

[Godobeyer]

I'm not sure, so I did the maths manually. If we assume that the Gregorian and Julian calenders were in sync when the Gregorian was invented in 1582, working both backwards the 950 years between then and 632 gives a difference of 7 days. (Since there are 7 leap days included in the Julian but not in the Gregorian in that period.)

i agree with you manually its maybe make errors ...

 

[Godobeyer]

I'm not sure, so I did the maths manually.

i agree with you manually its maybe make errors ... but what i want to tell there are many softwares calculate the eclipse of the sun confirme that there was an eclipse of sun at that day

 

[Godobeyer]

What i think GODobeyer That you are just wasting your time by these topics.
You have to think big before you put your ( GREAT ) ideas , And don't be silly brother .

thank you so much , for your advise .....but I guess you wrong some where, because some of the poster verified and confirmed by them selves that proof

thank you God, that you show us the truth of the your religion.

 

[Meow Mix]

thank you so much , for your advise .....but I guess you wrong some where, because some of the poster verified and confirmed by them selves that proof

thank you God, that you show us the truth of the your religion.

Godobeyer,

Are you familiar with Greek mythology such as the Iliad?

The Iliad, attributed to Homer, tells the epic story of the battle of Troy. It features stories of gods, demigods, and monsters.

Archaeologists have since confirmed that the city of Troy did, in fact, exist. Does this mean that the Iliad is true?

Do you see how having one aspect of a story verified doesn't mean that the entire story is true, especially claims about miraculous things?

This is what people have been trying to say to you in this thread. I haven't verified it, but I don't doubt that indeed there was an eclipse. However, eclipses happen all the time; and cosmological events do happen around the times of people's births and deaths by sheer probability (for instance, Halley's Comet -- the brightest periodical comet in the sky -- appeared at both the birth and death of Mark Twain, a famous American author). Does that mean Mark Twain is divine or a prophet? No -- it means that sometimes, interesting astronomical events occur and we associate those events with something happening on the planet.

If you think about it, every 10 seconds a number of people are born and die, so every time an astronomical event occurs there are going to be some people dying during it and some people being born during it!

It doesn't prove the significance of anything. All myths are based on kernels of truth, so like I said, I don't think anyone really doubts that there was an eclipse or that it's written in the Quran. Many cultures correctly wrote the dates of eclipses and such, and just like today, many people were dying and being born during those events -- some of those people were famous. That's just coincidence. It doesn't prove anything other than that there was an eclipse on that date and that this person died during that eclipse. That doesn't validate the rest of the story any more than the existence of the city Troy validates the gods and monsters in the Iliad. See?

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer,

Are you familiar with Greek mythology such as the Iliad?

The Iliad, attributed to Homer, tells the epic story of the battle of Troy. It features stories of gods, demigods, and monsters.

Archaeologists have since confirmed that the city of Troy did, in fact, exist. Does this mean that the Iliad is true?

Do you see how having one aspect of a story verified doesn't mean that the entire story is true, especially claims about miraculous things?

This is what people have been trying to say to you in this thread. I haven't verified it, but I don't doubt that indeed there was an eclipse. However, eclipses happen all the time; and cosmological events do happen around the times of people's births and deaths by sheer probability (for instance, Halley's Comet -- the brightest periodical comet in the sky -- appeared at both the birth and death of Mark Twain, a famous American author). Does that mean Mark Twain is divine or a prophet? No -- it means that sometimes, interesting astronomical events occur and we associate those events with something happening on the planet.

If you think about it, every 10 seconds a number of people are born and die, so every time an astronomical event occurs there are going to be some people dying during it and some people being born during it!

It doesn't prove the significance of anything. All myths are based on kernels of truth, so like I said, I don't think anyone really doubts that there was an eclipse or that it's written in the Quran. Many cultures correctly wrote the dates of eclipses and such, and just like today, many people were dying and being born during those events -- some of those people were famous. That's just coincidence. It doesn't prove anything other than that there was an eclipse on that date and that this person died during that eclipse. That doesn't validate the rest of the story any more than the existence of the city Troy validates the gods and monsters in the Iliad. See?

thanks for your post,
I guess you don't got my point ,I will try to explain in few sentences,
1- the event of the eclipse of the sun was happened in the past (its like a story about Muhammad pbuh life at at Shawwal, 10 AH = 27-01-632 ) ok ?
2- the softwares that calculate the eclipse of the sun , created recently by non-muslims right ?

these softwares confirm that there was an eclipse of sun at Shawwal, 10 AH = 27-01-632
what is that mean ??? that mean its true story , and it's mean that prophet Muhammad was existed , and it's mean that the history of Islam based on the truth

you remember me when i post this thread at city-data some guys , told me exactly what you told me before : " every 10 seconds a number of people are born and die," and "many people were dying and being born during those events -- some of those people were famous. That's just coincidence. It doesn't prove anything other than that there was an eclipse on that date and that this person died during that eclipse."

I don't why some posters got it well, and some others find it so hard to understand my point .

 

[Meow Mix]

thanks for your post,
what is that mean ??? that mean its true story , and it's mean that prophet Muhammad was existed , and it's mean that the history of Islam based on the truth

You make 2 claims:

1) The story [in its entirety] is true because the eclipse happened.

2) The character in the story, Muhammad, existed because the eclipse happened.

Both of these claims are incorrect. For instance, I can make similar claims:

1) The Iliad, in its entirety, is true because the city Troy has been discovered and was known to exist at the time the story took place.

2) The characters in the story -- including gods, demigods, and monsters -- existed because modern archaeologists have discovered/confirmed that Troy existed at that time.

When you start responding to me on why the modern discovery of Troy doesn't prove that the Iliad was true in its entirety and why the modern discovery of Troy doesn't prove that gods and monsters exist, you will understand why the modern confirmation of an ancient eclipse doesn't prove that story to be true or that its characters are as the book describes them necessarily.

All that it proves is that there was an eclipse, which no one is doubting.

That the eclipse happened doesn't prove that the rest of the story is real any more than the fact that discovering Troy doesn't prove that the Trojan Wars (between men, gods, monsters etc.) happened. See?

 

[Meow Mix]

I thought of another example.

Francis Drake, a famous English pirate, led a fleet in 1587 against the Spanish so successfully that everyone thought he had a magic mirror in his cabin where he consulted with a demon.

It has since been confirmed that Francis Drake was indeed very successful in 1587 against the Spanish.

Does this modern confirmation of that part of the story PROVE that he had a magic demon mirror? Or does it just prove that Francis Drake was a successful pirate in 1587?

Likewise, does modern confirmation of an ancient eclipse PROVE the miraculous parts about that section of the Quran... or does it just prove there was an eclipse?

 

[Godobeyer]

I thought of another example.

Francis Drake, a famous English pirate, led a fleet in 1587 against the Spanish so successfully that everyone thought he had a magic mirror in his cabin where he consulted with a demon.

It has since been confirmed that Francis Drake was indeed very successful in 1587 against the Spanish.

Does this modern confirmation of that part of the story PROVE that he had a magic demon mirror? Or does it just prove that Francis Drake was a successful pirate in 1587?

Likewise, does modern confirmation of an ancient eclipse PROVE the miraculous parts about that section of the Quran... or does it just prove there was an eclipse?

again you had reply just like

The only thing about the story of Ibrahim that you have proven to be true is that there was an eclipse. Have you seen the movie Titanic? 4 hours of fiction with 2 minutes of historical fact. We can prove that the Titanic existed but that doesn't mean the entire story is true. You get what I'm saying here?

i want to tell you that this story is just "a marginal story"(not important,small event) is true and confirmed (as you claim) , that 's mean the important events of the history all are true .

 

[Meow Mix]

i want to tell you that this story is just "a marginal story"(not important,small event) is true and confirmed (as you claim) , that 's mean the important events of the history all are true .

Ok I'm really, truly trying to understand what you're saying here.

Are you saying:

1) One part of the Quran mentions an eclipse occurred.
2) An eclipse occurred.

Therefore, all of the Quran is true?

Is that what you're saying?

Or are you just pointing out that the Quran mentioned an eclipse and that the eclipse hasn't been shown to be false, therefore the part in the Quran that mentions the eclipse only is true?

Are you saying the eclipse proves the whole thing, in other words, or just that the Quran got the date of an eclipse correct (since getting the date of an eclipse correct doesn't mean anything else is true, just that an eclipse indeed happened).

 

[Meow Mix]

In fact now that I remember the title of the thread (Scientific proof for Muhammed existing), it appears to me that your "reasoning" is this:

1) The Quran mentions an eclipse occurred during the death of Muhammed.
2) It's been verified that an eclipse happened during that time.

Therefore, Muhammed existed.

Is that your argument?

How is that different from this argument, maybe this will show you why that reasoning is poor:

1) The Iliad mentions a war at the city of Troy between monsters, gods, and men.
2) It's been verified that the city of Troy existed during that time.

Therefore, monsters and Greek gods exist.

Do you see the problem here?!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If the sun was occulted, the truth of the quran must resulted!

Case closed, Meow Mix.

 

[Looncall]

If the sun was occulted, the truth of the quran must resulted!

Case closed, Meow Mix.

There is some failure of reasoning here.

The fact that the quran recorded an astronomical event, just as other ancient texts recorded astronomical events, says nothing at all about the truth of the rest of the book. They are unrelated. The eclipse observation could easily be accurate and the rest of the book fantasy.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There is some failure of reasoning here.

The fact that the quran recorded an astronomical event, just as other ancient texts recorded astronomical events, says nothing at all about the truth of the rest of the book. They are unrelated. The eclipse observation could easily be accurate and the rest of the book fantasy.

Apparently, you failed to noticed that it rhymed. Things that rhyme, are always found true, in time.

Sorry, it's a fact of the universe that can't be debated.

 

[Venatoris]

again you had reply just like

The only thing about the story of Ibrahim that you have proven to be true is that there was an eclipse. Have you seen the movie Titanic? 4 hours of fiction with 2 minutes of historical fact. We can prove that the Titanic existed but that doesn't mean the entire story is true. You get what I'm saying here?

i want to tell you that this story is just "a marginal story"(not important,small event) is true and confirmed (as you claim) , that 's mean the important events of the history all are true .

You obviously understand what we are trying to say here because you were able to draw the correlation between our two posts. Why do you keep insisting that one trivial aspect of the story lends creedence to the rest? I could give you hundreds of examples, in classic and current literature and film, that prove you wrong but if you continue with the logical fallacy that C=true therefore A=true, we will never get anywhere.

 

[skydivephil]

Heres another example for you. This movie is about:
Fly Me to the Moon 3D (2008)
is about soem flies thhat sneak aboard the Apollo 11 mision to the moon and rescue the mission from disaster. Its set during real historical events, but that doesnt make it a true story. If ancient hsitorians find fragments of this movie and verify some of the events happened as described in the film, should they conclude the whole film is accurate?

If a fisherman says he caught a giant fish, should the fact the he can prove he caught a fish imply it was a giant fish. Poeple make stuff other, other people exxagerate real events , proving a real event doesnt mean a story hasnt been exxagerated or embelished.

 

[Godobeyer]

You obviously understand what we are trying to say here because you were able to draw the correlation between our two posts. Why do you keep insisting that one trivial aspect of the story lends creedence to the rest? I could give you hundreds of examples, in classic and current literature and film, that prove you wrong but if you continue with the logical fallacy that C=true therefore A=true, we will never get anywhere.

do you verified , my proof ?
I guess you don't, because if you did you would understand me very well .

 

[Venatoris]

do you verified , my proof ?
I guess you don't, because if you did you would understand me very well .

No, I can't verify your "proof" because you don't have any. I completely understand the point you are trying to make and I am able to see right through the obvious fallacy in your reasoning. If I say to you "the sky is green" will you understand what I'm saying? Yes. Does that mean I'm right? No.

Read this, the whole thing. Maybe you will be able to determine which part applies to your statements and maybe you won't. But you are still using flawed logic whether you understand it or not.
Fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Godobeyer]

No, I can't verify your "proof" because you don't have any. I completely understand the point you are trying to make and I am able to see right through the obvious fallacy in your reasoning. If I say to you "the sky is green" will you understand what I'm saying? Yes. Does that mean I'm right? No.

Read this, the whole thing. Maybe you will be able to determine which part applies to your statements and maybe you won't. But you are still using flawed logic whether you understand it or not.
Fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You did not verified my proof ,,, how you judge something without verify!!!?? you don't have the right to judge something right or not wrong ,,, without make sure by yourself ....look , the human did not believe anything except when he make sure (verify) by him self , you don't be smart enough .... i would not ask you to verify because i am sure you don't , you know why because you not able to see what i see , God make your lock your heart,and also your eyes ...Now you proof to me a verse of Quran, that it's compeletly correct in this case :

َAl-haj 22 , 64 :
" Have they not travelled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind. (46) And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise, but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon."

Al-Araf 7 , 179 :
"Already have We urged unto hell many of the jinn and humankind, having hearts wherewith they understand not, and having eyes wherewith they see not, and having ears wherewith they hear not. These are as the cattle - nay, but they are worse! These are the neglectful."

 

[Venatoris]

You did not verified my proof ,,, how you judge something without verify!!!??

So... a person must prove that you are correct before they can say you're wrong?

you don't have the right to judge something right or not wrong ,,, without make sure by yourself ....look , the human did not believe anything except when he make sure (verify) by him self

Belief and proof are two completely different things my friend. You do have one, you don't have the other. I try not to judge a belief because it is a personal thing. Proof on the other hand, must be judged to ascertain if it is in fact proof. Does your thread title say "Proof"? I think it does.

you don't be smart enough ....

I hope this is a translation error on your part or an interpretation error on my part. If not, I have no respect for you as a human being, let alone a person with something valuable to contribute to any discussion.

i would not ask you to verify because i am sure you don't , you know why because you not able to see what i see

I am not questioning your beliefs or your faith. Believe what you want, it doesn't bother me. In fact, I respect people for having faith in the unknowable. At the very least, it shows they have conviction about something.
On the other hand, when I see you advertising baked potatoes when your product is merely **** wrapped in tin foil, I am unable to hold my tongue.

God make your lock your heart,and also your eyes

This is an incredibly ridiculous statement for you to make when you have no idea if I believe in God or not.


If I misunderstood your previous post, please let me know. I would hate to walk away from this discussion with so little respect for you.

 

[Godobeyer]

Belief and proof are two completely different things my friend. You do have one, you don't have the other. I try not to judge a belief because it is a personal thing. Proof on the other hand, must be judged to ascertain if it is in fact proof. Does your thread title say "Proof"? I think it does.

of course both are different, what i tring to tell you that, the proof guide you to the faith (belief)

If I misunderstood your previous post, please let me know. I would hate to walk away from this discussion with so little respect for you.

of course i respect you(and i respect all the world) and i am sorry if i hurt your feeling , but i used these words maybe to let you wake up , and see the truth.... it's like when throw someone sleeping by class of cold water.