The scientific god model

[ChieftheCef]

Science never took this issue, it speaks loudly, they have no "scientific god model", please, right?

True, you're welcome, Good bye.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We are, you might call it Brahman.

Brahman is the Hindu way of saying 'whatever exists in the universe'. For me, it does not equate to a God.
Brahma (without elongation of the 'a' at the end, not Brahmā) is the universe, and what constitutes it is Brahman.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Science never took this issue, it speaks loudly, they have no "scientific god model", please, right?

Right, @paarsurrey. Science has its own views about creation of the universe and advent of life which is different from what many religions say.

 

[ChieftheCef]

Brahman is the Hindu way of saying 'whatever exists in the universe'. For me, it does not equate to a God.
Brahma (without elongation of the 'a' at the end, not Brahmā) is the universe, and what constitutes it is Brahman.

But when you see the monotheist, for say, talks about god in the mystic sense you envision the same oneness. I believe I have found this (based on science with the checklist of the attributes of god, supreme god etc of all religions), and it is absence. It makes sense when you put it into a riddle IF you have all the appropriate information. Problem is the information becomes about a 120ish page book so...

 

[Aupmanyav]

But when you see the monotheist, for say, talks about god in the mystic sense you envision the same oneness. I believe I have found this (based on science with the checklist of the attributes of god, supreme god etc of all religions), and it is absence. It makes sense when you put it into a riddle IF you have all the appropriate information. Problem is the information becomes about a 120ish page book so...

Well, the monotheist asks me to pray to his God which is not known to help anyone (or otherwise there would not have been Ukraine and Gaza wars), tries to influence me by offering everlasting life in heaven or frighten me with everlasting stay in hell (without giving me any evidence of that), and asks me to accept the messenger sent or instructed by him (of which there is no evidence - Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Hujjat Allah ibn Hasan al-Mahdi al-Ghayab - The Hidden One, Joseph Smith, Bahaollah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad - and the laws enunciated by them). Any reason that I should accept that?

 

[paarsurrey]

The scientific god model​

paarsurrey said:
Science never took this issue, it speaks loudly, they have no "scientific god model", please, right?

True, you're welcome, Good bye.

Since G-d is beyond Science-being out of its limits set forth in the Scientific Method, therefore, there will always be a model according to the Religious Method, please, right?

Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

Since G-d is beyond Science-being out of its limits set forth in the Scientific Method, therefore, there will always be a model according to the Religious Method, please, right?

Science has no 'God Model'. What we discuss is the 'Theists' God Models (many, not just one, monotheism is not the only 'God model').

 

[ChieftheCef]

The scientific god model​

paarsurrey said:
Science never took this issue, it speaks loudly, they have no "scientific god model", please, right?

Since G-d is beyond Science-being out of its limits set forth in the Scientific Method, therefore, there will always be a model according to the Religious Method, please, right?

Regards

It's a longer conversation than this but nothing is out of sciences model.


The longer of the conversation is that there are methods to deducing the truth, and all have their flaws. Socratic method, the five Cs of history, science etc. These all have flaws and can't see the entirety of the truth.

But Science can deduce something about everything, in simple terms.

All science is is observed fact. That's how science works, you observe facts, hypothesize more facts(theorize to some but that is not the correct term), and test to see if it's fact. If there are truth claims about god then science can study god. They just don't because they were born into monotheism/dharmism which says the incredibly counterintuitive lie that fun is bad or even unnecessary and insinuates with their mouth that they're not while their actions behavior beliefs etc don't. They say "oh HE lies, Satan" while they do nothing but lie. If you don't have fun you make fun. Counting things, break the stick, drinking games. Fun is necessary for your health. But that's why there is no scientific model of the monad, it exists in some form and fashion that I believe I have found with science, but who wants to prove the wrong assumption that Jesus is really actually a good guy?

He's not.

Mathew 5:28-29

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

One, lust is so good it necessarily happens. Only with thinking and getting it dead wrong do you come to the conclusion that lust is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Sexual release gives stress relieve. Stress kills. How is god so good if he wants us to die.

Two, hell isn't real. Based on NDE's and other science your brain lives longer than the body, by about 5-10-15 minutes. So the brains living when we die, what is it doing? It is easy to assume that the brain is using an endogenous chemical, dmt (which gives spiritual feelings of oneness with god as well as elongates minutes into eons and gives a radical trip), because NDE's have similar symptoms. So it's easier to assume the brain takes the chemical like it does with all things and gets the best out of it. You don't go to hell, you go to the light.

Three, a guy who tells you to pluck out your eyes for a known, yes, known at the time and now, lie is not your friends. He's an evil sadomasochist.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Check this out.

I also believe in a Deity, whose living body I describe above that all religions are aiming at but are missing because they have not given over to science for checking purposes.


This deity is the underlying unity of everything that is indivisible: the quantum field from which all of everything springs


This monad is seen by looking at the attributes of God/what is said of God/The Supreme God/The Animating Force and seeing how it is absence/the Void


Let’s look


Nothing is God


Nothing came before, is during and would be after the universes. It is eternal or always. Nothing surrounds and composes all universes, just take for example atoms. They are mostly made of space, like 99.9999%. The not empty space is just empty space contorted into somethingness. The Void, who is ultimately one thing including us, is composed of everything from nonexistence to existence; nothing-something. We are the cells, they the body. They the ocean and us the wave. Who is intangible as nothing and tangible as something. Composition as atoms show that commonality between this nothing and something, as if it is the common familial ground that unites us all. The only thing available before the big bang to cause the big bang, think about it slowly, is absence (still this point is unproven). That which does not even exist but because of it’s absence provides for everything that happens by the sheer consequences, the schematics, of the Void.


Lack is Brahman


Brahman is said to be infinite and eternal, being before during and after creation. As we’ve discussed absence fits the bill. Brahman is the unity of all, shown in his fullness as absence. Imagine a cup. Is the cup in it’s materials? It is also in it’s air. What is in the air? Space. Space itself is empty, it derives itself from nothing. But that’s where the chain ends, nothing which composes everything. What we are all interelating back to nothing. They are without qualities and formless: nothing! It is distinctionless, does not change, and is utter potentiality.


Absence is the Dao


Dao nr. 4 states “The Tao seems empty, yet it is never exhausted. Oh it is profound, it existed before anything”. That is Nothing, it is before all things, it seems empty, never goes away. It continues “Oh it is peaceful. Infinite, eternal. No one knows from where it came, it is older than the gods”. Absence is eternal, it is before during and after everything. Nothing is infinite, it stretches through, past and between all universes. Dao nr. 14 states “It is unseen because it is colourless; It is un heard because it is silent; if you try to grasp it it will ellude you because it has no form”. Nothing has no form and is clear, if anything. “…Because of it’s diverse qualities it cannot be summarized, yet it comprises an essential unity”. On it’s surface it appears incomprehensible because it includes everything. But in the depths it reveals itself. Dao nr. 40 states “The Tao seems nonexistent but it is the basis of existence”. This is true of Nothing: everything is just the sheer reacting of nothing to itself.



Absence is the Dryghten


The Dryghten is the divine force that permeates all of existence. Nothing permeates all of existence as everything’s composition of absence. The Dryghten embodies the interconnectedness of everything. Everything consists of mostly nothing, with some nothing that became something yet still is nothing, as evidenced by its composition even down to atoms, and smaller stuff


Emptiness is the Monad.


Nothing is the concept of Monad from the Greeks. The Monad is the first being, the prime mover, the eternal spark in each of us. It is eternal and equates to zero, nothing; absence. The monad is the indiscernible essence present in all beings and throughout existence, It is the totality of all things, the supreme being. It is indivisible and immaterial. That’s nothing. We can see this because both nothing and something have seeds of each other. Something is composed of mostly nothing, think atoms or molecules. Nothing is made of small something, planck scale which is the smallest scale. The monad exists independently of anything else and is the source of all things from which all things emanated. So is nothing, something arises from the little bit of something that composes nothing. The One is the first principle, outside of space-time, created the universe and is the underlying principle: nothing making the most of itself; efficiency which all things show regardless of their percentage.


Absence is Pan


Nothing is the lack of distinction, the one monistic thing. Opposites, like nothing and something contain seeds of each other. Nothing is actually something, not simply absence, and something is actually alot of nothing. There’s more space in what we are composed of than what our senses let on. They, nothing and something, are on a spectrum and are one in the same though are composed by each opposite which evolves nebulously from nothingness to somethingness, one in the same.


Lack is Teotl


Teotl continually generates and regenerates as well as permeates, encompasses and shapes the cosmos by it’s self generation and regeneration: Nature; the unity of something and nothing of which something consists of mostly nothing and nothing consists of mostly something, the quantum field. Thus there is seed between each seemingly different thing and thus it is one big thing: a whole lotta… Nothing


I believe this god between gods, or even goddess, rewards those that help further it’s agenda, whatever that seems to be though it seems to be rather pleasant actually. Take for instance Shiva. The Hindus had invented the concept of nothing, absence, this purported god(dess) and for this, perhaps, they were given Shiva translating dually both “that which is not” and great yogi as if yoga was their gift.

we know that zero and infinity have similar properties. So, the Buddhist call God zero, whereas the Abrahamic call God infinity. The two are essentially two facets of the same thing. I don't think it helps to debate whether zero is more important or infinity.

I personally think that zero should be understood as the infinity having no particular qualities. The Buddha, in my view, did not deny the existence of God. He only said, what God wants is not understandable. Therefore, let us not debate on God said this or God said that, and instead let us focus on our own spiritual salvation. This statement that God is zero is in my assessment not tenable.

I follow panpsychism and hold that there is consciousness in every living and inanimate object in the universe, and the collective of that consciousness is essentially God. So, from this perspective, God is infinity and not zero. Thank you.

 

[ChieftheCef]

we know that zero and infinity have similar properties. So, the Buddhist call God zero, whereas the Abrahamic call God infinity. The two are essentially two facets of the same thing. I don't think it helps to debate whether zero is more important or infinity.

I personally think that zero should be understood as the infinity having no particular qualities. The Buddha, in my view, did not deny the existence of God. He only said, what God wants is not understandable. Therefore, let us not debate on God said this or God said that, and instead let us focus on our own spiritual salvation. This statement that God is zero is in my assessment not tenable.

I follow panpsychism and hold that there is consciousness in every living and inanimate object in the universe, and the collective of that consciousness is essentially God. So, from this perspective, God is infinity and not zero. Thank you.

No, god is zero and infinity. God is everything, it composes god.

 

[wellwisher]

We live in spacetime where space and time are connected. We exist, now in time in our particular space; differential. If space and time were not connected then one could exist in time at any space; omnipresent. Science does not know how to measure this yet, since their method is more geared to specific points in space-time, and not all the points at the same time; omnipresent, or all the times as the same point; omniscience. Mathematically, God exist where space-time break down and separates into separate time and separated space; not of our space-time realm.

 

[ChieftheCef]

We live in spacetime where space and time are connected. We exist, now in time in our particular space; differential. If space and time were not connected then one could exist in time at any space; omnipresent. Science does not know how to measure this yet, since their method is more geared to specific points in space-time, and not all the points at the same time; omnipresent, or all the times as the same point; omniscience. Mathematically, God exist where space-time break down and separates into separate time and separated space; not of our space-time realm.

I disagree I see god as the sum total of a things. Not necessarily baphomet, but baphomet is included.

 

[River Sea]

It's a longer conversation than this but nothing is out of sciences model.


The longer of the conversation is that there are methods to deducing the truth, and all have their flaws. Socratic method, the five Cs of history, science etc. These all have flaws and can't see the entirety of the truth.

But Science can deduce something about everything, in simple terms.

All science is is observed fact. That's how science works, you observe facts, hypothesize more facts(theorize to some but that is not the correct term), and test to see if it's fact. If there are truth claims about god then science can study god. They just don't because they were born into monotheism/dharmism which says the incredibly counterintuitive lie that fun is bad or even unnecessary and insinuates with their mouth that they're not while their actions behavior beliefs etc don't. They say "oh HE lies, Satan" while they do nothing but lie. If you don't have fun you make fun. Counting things, break the stick, drinking games. Fun is necessary for your health. But that's why there is no scientific model of the monad, it exists in some form and fashion that I believe I have found with science, but who wants to prove the wrong assumption that Jesus is really actually a good guy?

He's not.

Mathew 5:28-29

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

One, lust is so good it necessarily happens. Only with thinking and getting it dead wrong do you come to the conclusion that lust is bad. Too much of anything is bad. Sexual release gives stress relieve. Stress kills. How is god so good if he wants us to die.

Two, hell isn't real. Based on NDE's and other science your brain lives longer than the body, by about 5-10-15 minutes. So the brains living when we die, what is it doing? It is easy to assume that the brain is using an endogenous chemical, dmt (which gives spiritual feelings of oneness with god as well as elongates minutes into eons and gives a radical trip), because NDE's have similar symptoms. So it's easier to assume the brain takes the chemical like it does with all things and gets the best out of it. You don't go to hell, you go to the light.

Three, a guy who tells you to pluck out your eyes for a known, yes, known at the time and now, lie is not your friends. He's an evil sadomasochist.

@ChieftheCef there is no hell because there's no separation - yes we all go to light.

yes we all go to light, there's no hell

I allow light in me teach me how to feed from light in the midst of my situations.

I use word midst instead of numbers such as zero and or infinity due to the word midst helps me comprehend. if zero and or infinity helps others comprehend that's helpful for them to connect

 

[wellwisher]

I disagree I see god as the sum total of a things. Not necessarily baphomet, but baphomet is included.

God is the sum of all things. However, science has a hard time finding God within space-time. This is Atheism's biggest gripe. Space-time is simply a special case of separated time and separated space being connected, with separated space and time far more comprehensive. It includes no connections, all the brief connections, as well as the more permanent connections like space-time. If science wants a God model, separated space and time is the best place to gain data.

Space-time is limited by the known laws of Physics. While separated space and time, does not have these limits. There are no limits. The human imagination can visit separated space and separated time by simply thinking of things beyond the limits of the laws of Physics. I can imagine flying to the sun with wings of wax. This cannot happen in space-time, due to the laws of physics and matter. The wax will melt and there is no air in space to give the wings lift. However, all information can be manipulated, in our minds, and can even exceed the laws of physics, at least within the neural grid of the imagination. I cannot prove flying to the sun with wings of wax, but I can still think of it. Faith is done within the imagination. It allows one to perceive and accept things even without the tangible proof expected of science and the laws of space-time.

The quantum universe is also where space-time breaks down; Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. There smaller than small also connects the largest superstructures of the universe through accumulative forces, like gravity, that appear from the virtual presense of the smallest particles; gluons, that bind matter and anti-matter. A neutron has an electron and positron contained but separate; anti-matter pair. These can be released through beta decay, with the help of a gatekeeper particle. The appearance of the gatekeeper requires the slight kiss of separated space and separated time; fast and transient virtual particle from the other side. It has the key to open the gate.

@ChieftheCef there is no hell because there's no separation - yes we all go to light.

yes we all go to light, there's no hell

I allow light in me teach me how to feed from light in the midst of my situations.

I use word midst instead of numbers such as zero and or infinity due to the word midst helps me comprehend. if zero and or infinity helps others comprehend that's helpful for them to connect

As long as there is law, there is good and evil and heaven and hell, since in law, good and evil exist as a connected pair. Law is simlar to a magnet that has a north and a south pole. We cannot cut a magnet into half, to separate the north and south poles. All we will get is two smaller magnets each with north and south poles. Science has never found a monopole; north or south, all by itself, since they always come in pairs. The same is true of law and knowledge of good and evil. If I say a good, you can say the reflected evil and vice versa, since there are a set.

If we did away with law, since law causes this polarization within the natural human brain; righteous man shall live by faith and not law, then all things becomes neutral, like instinct, and part of a divine plan. But it is hard to totally escape law, since that is the way of the world. Free speech alone has so many laws and rules for proper and improper conduct. If there was no law against free speech, it would be possible. However, to do good by the law, I must learn the bad words, but not say them. Instead, I need to learn to repress the bad, which cause unconscious potential, which leads to sin; inner release of the polar tension. You cannot just hide one pole of a magnet of law with repression. It is still part of the set and it does not go away, never leaving just the good monopole. It is still active but via the unconscious; temptation.

Space-time is space and time, that is also connected like a magnet; one implies the other, with law having a similar type of effect. Separated space and separated time is where each pole can exist separately, and not have to be connected. Faith comes from a place in the imaginaiton, where these can separate. But it does not to be appear possible within space-time, where two is also one. This is why law is never given up, but increased. The repressed evil become more creative and feeds itself with more and new law that is supposed to contain evil, but adds more data to the evill grid.

 

[paarsurrey]

we know that zero and infinity have similar properties. So, the Buddhist call God zero, whereas the Abrahamic call God infinity. The two are essentially two facets of the same thing. I don't think it helps to debate whether zero is more important or infinity.

I personally think that zero should be understood as the infinity having no particular qualities. The Buddha, in my view, did not deny the existence of God. He only said, what God wants is not understandable. Therefore, let us not debate on God said this or God said that, and instead let us focus on our own spiritual salvation. This statement that God is zero is in my assessment not tenable.

I follow panpsychism and hold that there is consciousness in every living and inanimate object in the universe, and the collective of that consciousness is essentially God. So, from this perspective, God is infinity and not zero. Thank you.

"zero and infinity have similar properties"

My understanding is that physically nothing exists except with the mercy of One/G-d who is attributively infinitive, please, right?

Regards

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

God is the sum of all things. However, science has a hard time finding God within space-time. This is Atheism's biggest gripe. Space-time is simply a special case of separated time and separated space being connected, with separated space and time far more comprehensive. It includes no connections, all the brief connections, as well as the more permanent connections like space-time. If science wants a God model, separated space and time is the best place to gain data.

Space-time is limited by the known laws of Physics. While separated space and time, does not have these limits. There are no limits. The human imagination can visit separated space and separated time by simply thinking of things beyond the limits of the laws of Physics. I can imagine flying to the sun with wings of wax. This cannot happen in space-time, due to the laws of physics and matter. The wax will melt and there is no air in space to give the wings lift. However, all information can be manipulated, in our minds, and can even exceed the laws of physics, at least within the neural grid of the imagination. I cannot prove flying to the sun with wings of wax, but I can still think of it. Faith is done within the imagination. It allows one to perceive and accept things even without the tangible proof expected of science and the laws of space-time.

The quantum universe is also where space-time breaks down; Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. There smaller than small also connects the largest superstructures of the universe through accumulative forces, like gravity, that appear from the virtual presense of the smallest particles; gluons, that bind matter and anti-matter. A neutron has an electron and positron contained but separate; anti-matter pair. These can be released through beta decay, with the help of a gatekeeper particle. The appearance of the gatekeeper requires the slight kiss of separated space and separated time; fast and transient virtual particle from the other side. It has the key to open the gate.


As long as there is law, there is good and evil and heaven and hell, since in law, good and evil exist as a connected pair. Law is simlar to a magnet that has a north and a south pole. We cannot cut a magnet into half, to separate the north and south poles. All we will get is two smaller magnets each with north and south poles. Science has never found a monopole; north or south, all by itself, since they always come in pairs. The same is true of law and knowledge of good and evil. If I say a good, you can say the reflected evil and vice versa, since there are a set.

If we did away with law, since law causes this polarization within the natural human brain; righteous man shall live by faith and not law, then all things becomes neutral, like instinct, and part of a divine plan. But it is hard to totally escape law, since that is the way of the world. Free speech alone has so many laws and rules for proper and improper conduct. If there was no law against free speech, it would be possible. However, to do good by the law, I must learn the bad words, but not say them. Instead, I need to learn to repress the bad, which cause unconscious potential, which leads to sin; inner release of the polar tension. You cannot just hide one pole of a magnet of law with repression. It is still part of the set and it does not go away, never leaving just the good monopole. It is still active but via the unconscious; temptation.

Space-time is space and time, that is also connected like a magnet; one implies the other, with law having a similar type of effect. Separated space and separated time is where each pole can exist separately, and not have to be connected. Faith comes from a place in the imaginaiton, where these can separate. But it does not to be appear possible within space-time, where two is also one. This is why law is never given up, but increased. The repressed evil become more creative and feeds itself with more and new law that is supposed to contain evil, but adds more data to the evill grid.

I am not very knowledgeable about physics, although I have a BSc in that subject but it seems to me that the philosophy of panpsychism, where it is said that every matter has psyche, solves the problem of space and as far as time is concerned, the entire space moves in time. So, there is no need for connecting space and time. Time is built into space and they are inseparable cannot exist without the other. Please, guide me if my understanding is correct.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

"zero and infinity have similar properties"

My understanding is that physically nothing exists except with the mercy of One/G-d who is attributively infinitive, please, right?

Regards

Please explain. What do you mean by attributively infinitive?

 

[RabbiO]

I am not very knowledgeable about physics, although I have a BSc in that subject….

I understand that a bachelor’s degree is not as advanced as a master‘s or a doctorate, but to say that you’re not really knowledgeable in a subject you earned a degree in defies logic. How did you mention to do that?

 

[wellwisher]

I am not very knowledgeable about physics, although I have a BSc in that subject but it seems to me that the philosophy of panpsychism, where it is said that every matter has psyche, solves the problem of space and as far as time is concerned, the entire space moves in time. So, there is no need for connecting space and time. Time is built into space and they are inseparable cannot exist without the other. Please, guide me if my understanding is correct.

Space-time has space and time working as one thing. However, the Heisenberg principle, which states that when measuring particles like electrons and photons, the more accurate you know position; space, or momentum; movement in time, the less accurate the other variable. This shows at the quantum level they are not exactly connected, to else one should imply the other, to the same accuracy. They should not be going in the wrong direction; more accurate in one means less accurate in the other.

I like to use the analogy of space-time being like a three legged race, where people two are tied together, left leg to right leg, and teams compete in foot races. This connecting tether slows the teams down, since the teams have to learn how to coordinate with the other person, o one is not fighting the other and slowing the team down. The Heisenberg Uncertainty is where they are not fully coordinated.

If we were to take off the tether, and each variable can then act on its own, both have more capacities. If one could move in space, not connected to time, you could be omnipresent. But if tethered and slowed down by the other, the best we can do is the speed of light; one place at a time.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Space-time has space and time working as one thing. However, the Heisenberg principle, which states that when measuring particles like electrons and photons, the more accurate you know position; space, or momentum; movement in time, the less accurate the other variable. This shows at the quantum level they are not exactly connected, to else one should imply the other, to the same accuracy. They should not be going in the wrong direction; more accurate in one means less accurate in the other.

I like to use the analogy of space-time being like a three legged race, where people two are tied together, left leg to right leg, and teams compete in foot races. This connecting tether slows the teams down, since the teams have to learn how to coordinate with the other person, o one is not fighting the other and slowing the team down. The Heisenberg Uncertainty is where they are not fully coordinated.

If we were to take off the tether, and each variable can then act on its own, both have more capacities. If one could move in space, not connected to time, you could be omnipresent. But if tethered and slowed down by the other, the best we can do is the speed of light; one place at a time.

Thank you for drawing my attention to the Heisenberg Principle. I understand from geometry that one needs three points to fix a circle or a triangle. Something similar seems to happen with the Heisenberg principle. Their space and time are not known unless there is a third variable that can fix both. Perhaps I am wrong. I do not understand this fully. Please educate me.



But I think we are going in a tangent. What we were discussing was whether there is a scientific model of God, having a scientific model and being able to fix it, definitively are two different things. Just as the Heisenberg principle has a model which itself says that their position cannot be fixed. Similarly, if we take panpsychism, we have a model of God without being able to fix the space and time of God. So, I am thanking you for your post and I'm happy to learn more on this. Thank you.