The Secret

[roli]

Man's self elevating attempts to position himself in the seat of a god is no new thing .
Much of many religions if not all are based on this very premise,that is ,I am in control and master of my destiny,
Christianity however,true christianity is based on quite the opposite ,that is, without Christ we can do nothing.
Gradifying and somewhat rewarding is the idea we can have and do anything we put our minds to in the here and now,but fleeting when we stand before him on that day
Although men will have success in many area's of their life,to attribute it to self is a dangerous position
That may not be convincing enough for those who find self success and happiness in this life,as many attribute their own abilities and efforts to such success,but the day we step from this life we will certainly find out what success really is based on.
It is God that grants us the ability to breathe ,move and have our being while here is this life
Although positive thinking is a good thing,to assume you can attract and get what you want by self realization and mere will power,is arrogant and egotistical to say the least.

 

[kadzbiz]

.......based on this very premise, that is, I am in control and master of my destiny ........ but the day we step from this life we will certainly find out what success really is based on. It is God that grants us the ability to breathe, move and have our being while here is this life.

Ouch! What about the poor children who are born without the ability to breathe and/or move, or the ones that are sexualy and physically abused for years on end? I'd say that they are neither in control of their destiny or being granted anything, except life itself, by God.

The only thing that one can truly control, not including those who have mental impairment, (but then maybe we all have some of that to some degree) is our thoughts. Whether God exists or not, our thinking is the only thing that allows us to deal with the hurdles in our lives. Thinking, making decisions, this is what ultimately determines our successfullness, which itself is very subjective.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Although positive thinking is a good thing,to assume you can attract and get what you want by self realization and mere will power,is arrogant and egotistical to say the least.

So saying I am going to quit smoking because I want to quit, and my will power is enough to do so, even cold turkey, is arrogant and egotistical?:sarcastic

 

[SenileAnimal]

So saying I am going to quit smoking because I want to quit, and my will power is enough to do so, even cold turkey, is arrogant and egotistical?:sarcastic

Yes, I've tried and it's rough to say the least.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings.

Christianity is hardly alone in this!

I know of none of the great religions that say that man is the ultilmate being.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[UnTheist]

agas;lkja;lksnta;stjast;jastklrjaewrnaerlknawe;lrjw3rifd;asfk;araffsnasrygastb

That is all.

 

[Popeyesays]

So saying I am going to quit smoking because I want to quit, and my will power is enough to do so, even cold turkey, is arrogant and egotistical?:sarcastic

Yes and no. My father quit cold turkey one day, just like that. He was never particularly religious, but one cannot simply say today I will think positively and expect to overcome all challenges simply because of it.

Regards,
Scott

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Roli I agree with your OP. The point Roli is trying to get over is also an Islamic idea. We generally say Allahu la ilaha illahu wa la hawla wa la quwwata wa illah billah which is 'Allah, there is none worthy of worship but He, and there is no strength and might except it comes from Allah'. The concept is that whatever we have of strength is from God's strength, and there is no strength that does not come from Him. There is no knowledge that we possess that is not from God's knowledge. There are no abilites we have that God did not grant.

Roli is also saying, (and he may correct any point I mistate or misunderstand) nothing can do without the permission of God. If you receive any success in your business, know that it was not your hard work that got you there. It was through the will of Allah (roli would say Christ) that He gave you the ability to achieve it. Had He willed for you to have no success, know that all the mankind could have pooled their knowledge and ability collectively to assist you, and they would not be able to assist. Nothing can harm or benefit besides Allah and through His will. Know that when you are ill and take medicine and is cured, it was not that medicine that cured you. You were cured through the will and the might of Allah. Had Allah willed that you would never be cured, know that all the doctors of the world could have pooled their collective knowledge, abilities, and technologies together and you would not be cured. This is but a fraction of the power of Allah. As He says in His book:

67. They made not a just estimate of Allâh such as is due to Him. And on the Day of Resurrection the whole of the earth will be grasped by His Hand and the heavens will be rolled up in His Right Hand. Glorified is He, and High is He above all that they associate as partners with Him!

but the day we step from this life we will certainly find out what success really is based on.

Yes we will. Success of this world (fid-dunya) is temporary and nothing compared with the success of the herefater (fil-akhira).

11. Verily, those who believe and do righteous good deeds, for them will be Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise). That is the great success.

16. So keep your duty to Allâh and fear Him as much as you can; listen and obey; and spend in charity, that is better for yourselves. And whosoever is saved from his own covetousness, then they are the successful ones.

 

[jacquie4000]

Fullyveiled Muslimah, I agree however if you just pray and do not take the step forward to achieve what you are praying for then it will not happen. I believe it is not just pray but you have to move forward yourself in your prayers to achieve sucess.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Man's self elevating attempts to position himself in the seat of a god is no new thing .
Much of many religions if not all are based on this very premise,that is ,I am in control and master of my destiny,
Christianity however,true christianity is based on quite the opposite ,that is, without Christ we can do nothing.
Gradifying and somewhat rewarding is the idea we can have and do anything we put our minds to in the here and now,but fleeting when we stand before him on that day
Although men will have success in many area's of their life,to attribute it to self is a dangerous position
That may not be convincing enough for those who find self success and happiness in this life,as many attribute their own abilities and efforts to such success,but the day we step from this life we will certainly find out what success really is based on.
It is God that grants us the ability to breathe ,move and have our being while here is this life
Although positive thinking is a good thing,to assume you can attract and get what you want by self realization and mere will power,is arrogant and egotistical to say the least.

(Without Christ we can do nothing) Yet another reason people shun christiany....or any other religion that feels this way. I breath on my own I walk I run I ride no one's God/s taught me how to do these things. Sorry but to believe you need God/s of any type to think on your own sounds very foolish.

 

[michel]

Man's self elevating attempts to position himself in the seat of a god is no new thing .
Much of many religions if not all are based on this very premise,that is ,I am in control and master of my destiny,
Christianity however,true christianity is based on quite the opposite ,that is, without Christ we can do nothing.
Gradifying and somewhat rewarding is the idea we can have and do anything we put our minds to in the here and now,but fleeting when we stand before him on that day
Although men will have success in many area's of their life,to attribute it to self is a dangerous position
That may not be convincing enough for those who find self success and happiness in this life,as many attribute their own abilities and efforts to such success,but the day we step from this life we will certainly find out what success really is based on.
It is God that grants us the ability to breathe ,move and have our being while here is this life
Although positive thinking is a good thing,to assume you can attract and get what you want by self realization and mere will power,is arrogant and egotistical to say the least.

Actually, I want to disagree with you on one point; where you say :

Christianity however,true christianity is based on quite the opposite ,that is, without Christ we can do nothing.

I have a problem. After all, we have free will. The choice is ours whether to sin or not to sin - otherwise the whole point of our mortal lives would be meaningless. Does that make sense ?

Another point that often occurrs to me is that (We) Christians believe that the only way to enter heaven is by accepting Jesus Christ as the saviour.

I find it very hard to reconcile the fact that someone (who has led a perfectly blameless life) should be excluded from heaven just because he/she hadn't even heard of Christ.

I would be interested in your reaction to those points ?

 

[roli]

Ouch! What about the poor children who are born without the ability to breathe and/or move, or the ones that are sexualy and physically abused for years on end? I'd say that they are neither in control of their destiny or being granted anything, except life itself, by God.

The only thing that one can truly control, not including those who have mental impairment, (but then maybe we all have some of that to some degree) is our thoughts. Whether God exists or not, our thinking is the only thing that allows us to deal with the hurdles in our lives. Thinking, making decisions, this is what ultimately determines our successfullness, which itself is very subjective.

You can discipline your thoughts,quite possibly manage them ,but you can't control them.
The amount and quality of thoughts that come into your head in one day no man can control.
Thinking is of course a good ,but when it is turned into the means in which to achieve all things ,and man through philosophy is elevated into some sort of an intellectual god ,well,some must sit back and laugh at such arrogance and that is what I am talking about. I am not ruling out thinking as a way of life.
It's interesting how you managed to make it seem as though I were against free thought.

We all know the mind and how finite and ignorant it actually is, when it is elevated as as almost god like in this new found secret,I become amused especially how many will jump on the band wagon.

 

[Kcnorwood]

You can discipline your thoughts,quite possibly manage them ,but you can't control them.
The amount and quality of thoughts that come into your head in one day no man can control.
Thinking is of course a good ,but when it is turned into the means in which to achieve all things ,and man through philosophy is elevated into some sort of an intellectual god ,well,some must sit back and laugh at such arrogance and that is what I am talking about. I am not ruling out thinking as a way of life.
It's interesting how you managed to make it seem as though I were against free thought.

We all know the mind and how finite and ignorant it actually is, when it is elevated as as almost god like in this new found secret,I become amused especially how many will jump on the band wagon.

It is not arrogance to assume that just because you don't kow right from wrong that no one else does either?

 

[roli]

[

quote=michel]Actually, I want to disagree with you on one point; where you say :
I have a problem. After all, we have free will. The choice is ours whether to sin or not to sin - otherwise the whole point of our mortal lives would be meaningless. Does that make sense ?

We all have free will,the power and freedom to choose,but we can only choose what is right, pleasing and acceptable to God through Christ.
Without the spirit of God dwelling in us we are not reconciled to God nor are we his children,straight up.His spirit witnesses to our spirit we are children of God
Anything we choose for our own glorification and or personal gain we go against Christ. Lust,coveting,greed,idols,etc.
The secret is based on new age philosophy and has the potential to cause man to become self sufficient where any glory for success is attributed to the individual and God is excluded.

Another point that often occurrs to me is that (We) Christians believe that the only way to enter heaven is by accepting Jesus Christ as the saviour.

Absolutely, no other way

I find it very hard to reconcile the fact that someone (who has led a perfectly blameless life) should be excluded from heaven just because he/she hadn't even heard of Christ.

What's your standard of blameless,our standard of goodness and God's are 2 very opposing concepts,you must be aware of that.
He actually says our righteousness is as filthy rags,none is good ,no not one ,we are all like sheep who are gone astray.
Many I ask regarding their goodness to enter heaven ,say, they are good enough to make it,but as I open up the law of God within 2 min their goodness is not good at all,again according to God's standard we all fail the good test.
Take yourself through the 10 commands, have you lied,taken God's name in vain,stolen anything,size or time is irrelavant,have you lusted,fornicated,coveted,
There are many scriptures that talk about how God has shown himself to us
You need to read Rom 1,2 where it talks about God manifesting himself and showing himself to all of us and that we all will be without excuse on judgement day, just from what is created men will be without excuse.
Although they knew God they neither glorified him as God "
What kind of a God would not reveal himself somehow in one's life and then punish them for not acceptting him.
We will all have had ample opportunity to choose God
I would be interested in your reaction to those points

 

[roli]

[

quote=michel]Actually, I want to disagree with you on one point; where you say :
I have a problem. After all, we have free will. The choice is ours whether to sin or not to sin - otherwise the whole point of our mortal lives would be meaningless. Does that make sense ?

We all have free will,the power and freedom to choose,but we can only choose what is right, pleasing and acceptable to God through Christ.
Without the spirit of God dwelling in us we are not reconciled to God nor are we his children,straight up.His spirit witnesses to our spirit we are children of God
Anything we choose for our own glorification and or personal gain we go against Christ. Lust,coveting,greed,idols,etc.
The secret is based on new age philosophy and has the potential to cause man to become self sufficient where any glory for success is attributed to the individual and God is excluded.

Another point that often occurrs to me is that (We) Christians believe that the only way to enter heaven is by accepting Jesus Christ as the saviour.

Absolutely, no other way

I find it very hard to reconcile the fact that someone (who has led a perfectly blameless life) should be excluded from heaven just because he/she hadn't even heard of Christ.

What's your standard of blameless,our standard of goodness and God's are 2 very opposing concepts,you must be aware of that.
He actually says our righteousness is as filthy rags,none is good ,no not one ,we are all like sheep who are gone astray.
Many I ask regarding their goodness to enter heaven ,say, they are good enough to make it,but as I open up the law of God within 2 min their goodness is not good at all,again according to God's standard we all fail the good test.
Take yourself through the 10 commands, have you lied,taken God's name in vain,stolen anything,size or time is irrelavant,have you lusted,fornicated,coveted,
There are many scriptures that talk about how God has shown himself to us
You need to read Rom 1,2 where it talks about God manifesting himself and showing himself to all of us and that we all will be without excuse on judgement day, just from what is created men will be without excuse.
Although they knew God they neither glorified him as God "
What kind of a God would not reveal himself somehow in one's life and then punish them for not acceptting him.
We will all have had ample opportunity to choose God

 

[roli]

So saying I am going to quit smoking because I want to quit, and my will power is enough to do so, even cold turkey, is arrogant and egotistical?:sarcastic

Watch the secret documentry and you will understand what I am referring to.
What they are suggesting is more then just willing yourself to stop smoking,come on,that is not what I am talking about.
Thinking you can have millions, big houses and anyone you want by mere thinking causing an attraction to what you want and you will possess it,is a clever marketing stradgedy and nothing more.
I said ,thinking is a good thing,determination and discipline of thoughts on quiting smoking, excelling in school etc.etc. are obviously good and normal.
This post is in regards to the secret and what they tell you to do to get whatever you want.

 

[roli]

Greetings.

Christianity is hardly alone in this!

I know of none of the great religions that say that man is the ultilmate being.

Peace,

Bruce

Please enlighten me as to the one's your referring to and we will discuss CENTRAL THEME in each.

 

[roli]

It is not arrogance to assume that just because you don't kow right from wrong that no one else does either?

Hello Kcnorwood, What are you trying to say here about right and wrong, i missed something I guess

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Fullyveiled Muslimah, I agree however if you just pray and do not take the step forward to achieve what you are praying for then it will not happen. I believe it is not just pray but you have to move forward yourself in your prayers to achieve sucess.

You are exactly right. We are encouraged not only to make dua for what we wish for but to make a practical effort to acheive it also. The point is to know that ultimately it was Allah who granted what I wanted, and not solely due to my own efforts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What they are suggesting is more then just willing yourself to stop smoking,come on,that is not what I am talking about.
Thinking you can have millions, big houses and anyone you want by mere thinking causing an attraction to what you want and you will possess it,is a clever marketing stradgedy and nothing more.

I understand your argument of monetary/material sucess, but wouldn't that also include non monetary/material sucess as well?