The Serpent in Gensis: a man?

[Thana]

No it wouldn't, it would make it behaviour/addiction.

Children lie all the time, Without really understanding the concept.
That makes deceit human nature.


"Why We Lie" by Professor David Livingstone Smith - Natural born liars

 

[EtuMalku]

No, I mean 'serpent' as in 'a deceitful person'.

It all depends on how you understand this fable, I see the Abrahamic god as being the deceitful one and the Serpent as the our savior.

A person lies to himself/herself and deceives himself/herself almost daily. That would make human nature.

How can you lie or deceive yourself? Others, yes . . . but not yourself, that is illogical.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

How can you lie or deceive yourself? Others, yes . . . but not yourself, that is illogical.

When one makes poor choices in life despite themselves? Also, when one chooses to live in a state of denial, knowing full well they are? Haven't you ever lied to yourself to make you feel good about something, even if momentarily? don't you ever have moments of 'wishful thinking' knowing such goals are unattainable and unrealistic? It is very logical.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But there seems to be no clear semantic distinction in the bible as to whether the usage of the word 'serpent' refers to a reptilian creature, or as to whether it refers to a deceitful person.

You mean it seems that way to you.

 

[Awoon]

Quite prevalent in christian mythology that the serpent who allegedly tempted eve is exactly that, a serpent. A reptile. Possibly a snake.

But there seems to be no clear semantic distinction in the bible as to whether the usage of the word 'serpent' refers to a reptilian creature, or as to whether it refers to a deceitful person.

Now, I don't think anyone can realistically believe eve was tempted by an upright talking snake, but I think it would be more realistic if the serpent had been another person to whom god cursed to 'crawl on their belly' thereafter. That would make more sense because the snake is so perfectly adapted for slithering and is, in fact, more energy efficient than walking.

So, what do you think?

The serpent is the whispering thoughts that humans have.

 

[EtuMalku]

When one makes poor choices in life despite themselves? Also, when one chooses to live in a state of denial, knowing full well they are? Haven't you ever lied to yourself to make you feel good about something, even if momentarily? don't you ever have moments of 'wishful thinking' knowing such goals are unattainable and unrealistic? It is very logical.

No matter what you say to yourself, you always know the truth. Psychological conflict certainly can occur, but I don't believe it is possible for a mentally stable person to lie or deceive their self.

 

[Mycroft]

Children lie all the time, Without really understanding the concept.
That makes deceit human nature.


"Why We Lie" by Professor David Livingstone Smith - Natural born liars

No it doesn't. Children lie because their parents induce them to by being poor communicators. Instead of a parent trying to clearly explain why something should not be done, they shout at the child. Since the child doesn't want to be shouted at (or beaten, in some cases) they lie instead to avoid this occurrence.

 

[crossfire]

No matter what you say to yourself, you always know the truth. Psychological conflict certainly can occur, but I don't believe it is possible for a mentally stable person to lie or deceive their self.

“We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.”

~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe​

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Quite prevalent in christian mythology that the serpent who allegedly tempted eve is exactly that, a serpent. A reptile. Possibly a snake.

But there seems to be no clear semantic distinction in the bible as to whether the usage of the word 'serpent' refers to a reptilian creature, or as to whether it refers to a deceitful person.

Now, I don't think anyone can realistically believe eve was tempted by an upright talking snake, but I think it would be more realistic if the serpent had been another person to whom god cursed to 'crawl on their belly' thereafter. That would make more sense because the snake is so perfectly adapted for slithering and is, in fact, more energy efficient than walking.

So, what do you think?

One possible interpretation is 'Serpent' is symbol of Worldly effections and desires. Eve represents symbolically the Body, and Adam the Spirit. The Body is after Worldly desires, deviates from God's guidance (The Tree of Life), and is attached to the Worldly things (Tree of good and evil), and therefore the Adam who is the Spirit dies. The spiritually dead is different from physical dead. a Person can be spiritually dead, but physically alive, as Jesus said: "Let the Dead bury their Dead" it is obvious the man was literall alive, but spiritually dead.

 

[Tumah]

Quite prevalent in christian mythology that the serpent who allegedly tempted eve is exactly that, a serpent. A reptile. Possibly a snake.

But there seems to be no clear semantic distinction in the bible as to whether the usage of the word 'serpent' refers to a reptilian creature, or as to whether it refers to a deceitful person.

Now, I don't think anyone can realistically believe eve was tempted by an upright talking snake, but I think it would be more realistic if the serpent had been another person to whom god cursed to 'crawl on their belly' thereafter. That would make more sense because the snake is so perfectly adapted for slithering and is, in fact, more energy efficient than walking.

So, what do you think?

I would say Gen. 3:1 is fairly straightforward. The verse puts the snake in the category of the beasts of the field without offering any suggestion of metaphor before beginning with "and he said to the woman...". This would make a lot less sense/seem disjointed if it were not speaking about a snake.

Its hard to really understand where you're coming from. If Eve was able to communicate with animals, or if the snake was able to communicate with Man at the time, it would be perfectly reasonable to assume she would be tempted by a talking snake. After all, she has no reference to compare it too- she's the First Lady, literally. How should she know that snakes can't talk? Also, there is no mention of another person at this point in creation.

 

[greentwiga]

One possible interpretation is 'Serpent' is symbol of Worldly effections and desires. Eve represents symbolically the Body, and Adam the Spirit. The Body is after Worldly desires, deviates from God's guidance (The Tree of Life), and is attached to the Worldly things (Tree of good and evil), and therefore the Adam who is the Spirit dies. The spiritually dead is different from physical dead. a Person can be spiritually dead, but physically alive, as Jesus said: "Let the Dead bury their Dead" it is obvious the man was literall alive, but spiritually dead.

It is much better to compare the story to known history. Look at the Oracle at Delphi (Wikipedia even) The Oracle priestess was called the Pythea because she got her oracles by talking to the Python, a god. The Serpent is not an animal like a snake. It is a Serpent. The Bible makes it clear that this is really the Devil, in disguise. All false Gods are equated with demons. Thus, it appears that Eve was dabbling in a false religion, and talking to the Serpent, which was really the devil. It was a being, but not a man or an animal.

 

[sojourner]

The Bible makes it clear that this is really the Devil, in disguise

No. It doesn't. The Devil is never mentioned in the creation myths.

Thus, it appears that Eve was dabbling in a false religion

Since there were only two people, how could there be a religion -- false or otherwise? Adam and Eve dealt directly with a fully-revealed God. They had no need of religion to provide metaphors.

 

[ChristineES]

How can you lie or deceive yourself? Others, yes . . . but not yourself, that is illogical.

Haven't you ever tried to believe something that isn't true? People do that all the time.

 

[outhouse]

No. It doesn't. The Devil is never mentioned in the creation myths.

Since there were only two people, how could there be a religion -- false or otherwise? Adam and Eve dealt directly with a fully-revealed God. They had no need of religion to provide metaphors.

Agreed.


People are often ignorant to the mythology that Israelites actually followed from lets say 1200 BC to 600 BC. And the bible reflects only the smallest portions of this mythology followed for much of the time the OT was evolving.

They do not understand what the serpent actually was, nor mythology surrounding previous cultures that had deified serpents and the redactors were trying to denounce when monotheism became the national deity.

 

[outhouse]

It is much better to compare the story to known history. Look at the Oracle at Delphi (Wikipedia even) The Oracle priestess was called the Pythea because she got her oracles by talking to the Python, a god. The Serpent is not an animal like a snake. It is a Serpent. The Bible makes it clear that this is really the Devil, in disguise. All false Gods are equated with demons. Thus, it appears that Eve was dabbling in a false religion, and talking to the Serpent, which was really the devil. It was a being, but not a man or an animal.

Do yourself a favor.

Don't look at Greek mythology to explain another cultures mythology, you will only confuse yourself.


Look at he source, which in this case is Mesopotamian mythology, which influenced Israelite scripture, but then you have to throw it under the light of editors who redacted previous Israelite mythology to change ALL of it to denounce all other deities to just one deity.

Its complicated but the mythology evolved for hundreds and hundreds of years

 

[greentwiga]

Well, you can compare Gen 2 to Sumerian or Babylonian mythology. Many who think it was written in 500 BC. would then comp[are it to them, but there is nothing very like it. Its only comparison is to truly ancient mythologies of which we have very few records. Since most Christian claim it is the first event, not a story written somewhere around 500 BC, it could only be compared to the really ancient myths, not some myth that evolved for hundreds and hundreds of years. I am convinced this is a true event. After long and careful study, I can only conclude that each and every word is true. I am not saying that anyone else lived before Adam. I am just saying that Our first known method of Satan deceiving people involved serpent or python (depending on the language. Sumerian mythologies were a much later method of his deception.

When I equated the serpent to the Devil, I was just referring to Rev 12:9 and 20:2, where Satan is called the serpent of old. He certainly deceived the World and deceived Eve. Deut 32:17 equates gods and demons. I Cor 10:20 equates Idols and demons. Thus, I equate the Python of Delphi and any other serpent worship with Demons and Satan.

 

[EtuMalku]

Haven't you ever tried to believe something that isn't true? People do that all the time.

Seems illogical to me . . . how would you know it wasn't true? If you know it isn't true, you are not really believing it. You can't lie to yourself . . . it's impossible.

 

[sojourner]

Well, you can compare Gen 2 to Sumerian or Babylonian mythology. Many who think it was written in 500 BC. would then comp[are it to them, but there is nothing very like it. Its only comparison is to truly ancient mythologies of which we have very few records. Since most Christian claim it is the first event, not a story written somewhere around 500 BC, it could only be compared to the really ancient myths, not some myth that evolved for hundreds and hundreds of years. I am convinced this is a true event. After long and careful study, I can only conclude that each and every word is true. I am not saying that anyone else lived before Adam. I am just saying that Our first known method of Satan deceiving people involved serpent or python (depending on the language. Sumerian mythologies were a much later method of his deception.

When I equated the serpent to the Devil, I was just referring to Rev 12:9 and 20:2, where Satan is called the serpent of old. He certainly deceived the World and deceived Eve. Deut 32:17 equates gods and demons. I Cor 10:20 equates Idols and demons. Thus, I equate the Python of Delphi and any other serpent worship with Demons and Satan.

Sumerian preceded Genesis. In fact, the Genesis creation myth could have been lifted from Sumerian mythos.

It's a huge mistake to read Greek ideas from after the year 100 c.e. into much, mush earlier Hebrew mythology. The two simply don't mix.

 

[outhouse]

I am convinced this is a true event. After long and careful study, I can only conclude that each and every word is true. I.

Yet every word is not true, its been proven false time and time again in many places as far as history is concerned..


Your just refusing knowledge and education in favor of mythology.


Exodus is unsubstantiated, Israelites formed from displaced Canaanites.

Why didn't the bible tell the true real story?

 

[greentwiga]

Sumerian preceded Genesis. In fact, the Genesis creation myth could have been lifted from Sumerian mythos.

It's a huge mistake to read Greek ideas from after the year 100 c.e. into much, mush earlier Hebrew mythology. The two simply don't mix.

Actually, besides the rib (a pun in Sumerian), there is not much that Genesis has in common with Sumerian myths. The Oracle is far far older than even the greeks of 800 or earlier BC. It seems to hearken back to the mother Goddess worship of 7,000 BC and earlier. We just get remnants in various myths. One of the best piecing together of remnants is the golden bough. That book discusses the green man. I wonder if Adam and Eve dressing in fig leaves is related to the green man belief.

I must admit, I've read most of the Sumerian Myths, along with Babylonian, but the Golden Bough did get quite tedious.