"The Sexy Lie"

[MysticSang'ha]

A TEDx talk by Dr. Caroline Heldman revisits the debate over media sexually objectifying women, a litmus test to determine if an ad or movie or game objectifies someone, and the societal and psychological impact sexually objectifying women does.

She also points to an interesting statistic that is provocative: when a woman's issue is presented, and the "what about the menz" arguments begin to be in response, or when people say that it happens to men too....Dr. Heldman suggests in the video that 96% of what passes as sexually objectifying ads are objectifying women specifically.

It also explains why men are not objectified nearly as much because objectification of women in ads are presented in both popular men's magazines AND in women's magazines.

I found her talk compelling. What do you think?

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't see sexual objectification going away.
So I propose better balance by increasing it for men.
Btw, I was struck by how the speaker's top could'a been more flattering.

Now, on to the boring part. I notice more & more that sexual objectification
(of women especially) in movies & TV shows annoys even me. It's so bad that
I'm pleasantly surprised when plain looking gals get high profile roles which
are about non-gender related issues, eg, Clare Danes in Homeland.
(Note: Some might cry "False! She's attractive.". But I don't find her to be "meh".
Moreover, in the role, whatever hotness she has is down played. i like this.)
Other ordinary looking gals whose work I like:
Margot Martindale, Linda Hunt, Camryn Manheim, Sigourney Weaver

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

A TEDx talk by Dr. Caroline Heldman revisits the debate over media sexually objectifying women, a litmus test to determine if an ad or movie or game objectifies someone, and the societal and psychological impact sexually objectifying women does.

She also points to an interesting statistic that is provocative: when a woman's issue is presented, and the "what about the menz" arguments begin to be in response, or when people say that it happens to men too....Dr. Heldman suggests in the video that 96% of what passes as sexually objectifying ads are objectifying women specifically.

It also explains why men are not objectified nearly as much because objectification of women in ads are presented in both popular men's magazines AND in women's magazines.

I found her talk compelling. What do you think?

"Men are sold this idea that they are sexual subjects...it makes them feel powerful to see objectified images of women everywhere"

Basically just summed up why I'm a radical "hostile towards the sex industry" feminist.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Men are sold this idea that they are sexual subjects...it makes them feel powerful to see objectified images of women everywhere"

Powerful? I don't get that from them.
I just get the sense that someone is trying really hard to sell me something I don't want.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I found her talk compelling. What do you think?

I think most average people are better at compartmentalizing entertainment from reality than many people would have us believe. I also think that if someone is unable to compartmentalize entertainment from reality, then they probably have a myriad of problems that are far worse than sexually objectifying other people.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

"Men are sold this idea that they are sexual subjects...it makes them feel powerful to see objectified images of women everywhere"

I find it interesting how many women can still be this clueless about men's sexuality.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Powerful? I don't get that from them.
I just get the sense that someone is trying really hard to sell me something I don't want.

That was what I felt was being brought up by Dr. Heldman. It isn't so much as "sex sells", because what she argues is that media isn't actually selling sex. It's selling objectified women, where men are being sold to be sexually in the drivers seat and women are being sold to be objects being acted upon.

Say it over and over and over again, and people will believe that's the reality or that it's a part of human nature.

 

[Revoltingest]

That was what I felt was being brought up by Dr. Heldman. It isn't so much as "sex sells", because what she argues is that media isn't actually selling sex. It's selling objectified women, where men are being sold to be sexually in the drivers seat and women are being sold to be objects being acted upon.
Say it over and over and over again, and people will believe that's the reality or that it's a part of human nature.

I don't see her interpretation at all.
But I'm too clueless to think I know better.

The one effect (deleterious, btw) I see is creating narrow & unrealistic expectations of what womenfolk should look like.

 

[freethinker44]

Women are sexually objectified more than men because men aren't sexy. Everyone gets objectified and exploited for whatever it is they do for a living or have talent for.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The one effect (deleterious, btw) I see is creating narrow & unrealistic expectations of what womenfolk should look like.

If you walk around any random shopping mall, you can see that the vast majority of people fall far short of any "ideal" presented in advertising or entertainment, yet most people have no problem finding a spouse or people to date. Most people seem to be able to compartmentalize the unrealistic "expectations" of ads/entertainment with the more realistic expectations of actuality.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Women are sexually objectified more than men because men aren't sexy. Everyone gets objectified and exploited for whatever it is they do for a living or have talent for.

Men are objectified, too. There's standards of beauty for men. Of course, it's really bad in the gay community.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you walk around any random shopping mall, you can see that the vast majority of people fall far short of any "ideal" presented in advertising or entertainment, yet most people have no problem finding a spouse or people to date. Most people seem to be able to compartmentalize the unrealistic "expectations" of ads/entertainment with the more realistic expectations of actuality.

No doubt that people find romantic success despite falling short of expected media norms.
But I get the impression that many gals suffer from efforts to meet that ideal, especially teens.

 

[Revoltingest]

Men are objectified, too. There's standards of beauty for men. Of course, it's really bad in the gay community.

Interesting......
Elaboration?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Interesting......
Elaboration?

On which?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

No doubt that people find romantic success despite falling short of expected media norms.
But I get the impression that many gals suffer from efforts to meet that ideal, especially teens.

No doubt. Teens are notoriously insecure, self-conscious, and emotionally immature, and have all sorts of different mixed messages, competing influences, and conflicting desires which make the process of developing a stable, secure, consistent, and genuine self-identity a real challenge. Some people obviously come through it less-scathed than others.

 

[Revoltingest]

On which?

Beauty expectations in the gay community.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Beauty expectations in the gay community.

Ah. Well, that's really a topic all its own. I don't want to derail this one.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Beauty expectations in the gay community.

I'll answer, but I'll keep it brief.

If one does not belong in a niche group (bears, twinks, etc.), then the beauty standard is to look like an Adonis. Chiseled muscles, relatively manly, kind of slutty (not really a standard, but in some ways an expectation), etc. If you don't fit into that category, then generally you are overlooked. However, if you do, then many (if not most) will only view you as a sex object and not as a person.

Now back to the thread at hand.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thanks. Lol.

 

[freethinker44]

The one effect (deleterious, btw) I see is creating narrow & unrealistic expectations of what womenfolk should look like.

The more I think about this, the more I am convinced that this is a situation that women created for women. It sounds harsh, like blaming the victim, I know, but if you think about it, it makes sense. Men don't care what women look like, and from a purely sexual perspective men care even less what women look like. Simply put, most men will have sex with anything. That's even a common stereotype for men.

So which is it? Will men have sex with anything or do women need to look perfect in order to attract men? I mean, if there is no shortage of men willing to pay to have sex with this woman:

Then I think it's safe to say women don't need to worry about how they look around men. That reminds me of another common male stereotype where the woman asks her husband/boyfriend how something makes her look and any answer he gives is wrong... because in reality it isn't his opinion she is looking for, she may think it is but any answer he gives is unacceptable, so who is she really trying to look beautiful for? It's other women.

This also seems to be true of men with bodybuilding. Most women I've talked to about it are not at all attracted to massive muscles like that, and it's not to be healthy because all that protein and lifting massive weights isn't really good for your heart and bodybuilders tend to die young, who are they trying to impress if not women or doctors? Must be other men.