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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

Benoni

Well-Known Member
Did He ever mention ....consequence....of any kind?
Thief have you ever heard of the Tabernacle of Daid? Do you understand what is is?

Acts 15:16-18

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Thief said:
Did He ever mention ....consequence....of any kind?
Thief have you ever heard of the Tabernacle of Daid? Do you understand what is is?

Acts 15:16-18

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residueof men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.


Instead of these ridiculous cryptic answers - why don't you try telling us what you think Acts 15:16-18 means - in relation to his "consequence" question - since you replied to it?


*
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
Instead of these ridiculous cryptic answers - why don't you try telling us what you think Acts 15:16-18 means - in relation to his "consequence" question - since you replied to it?


*
Because this is very much a cryptic answer like all spiritual deep truths of the Bible. This verse totally is ignored by most believes because they think nothing is hidden in scripture. Plus it totally goes against the teachings of the vast majority of christian religions. And boy do bias religious people hate that.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Because this is very much a cryptic answer like all spiritual deep truths of the Bible. This verse totally is ignored by most believes because they think nothing is hidden in scripture. Plus it totally goes against the teachings of the vast majority of christian religions. And boy do bias religious people hate that.

Stick around for this thread.....I don't have a religion.
I have no dogmatic faith.

Consequence?....yes of course.
I suspect it is dealt as you deal with others.

I also suspect the angels don't give a damn.

Seen the story of Lazarus and the rich man?
Or maybe I could redo my take on the one third of heaven that fell?.....
 

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Stick around for this thread.....I don't have a religion.
I have no dogmatic faith.

Consequence?....yes of course.
I suspect it is dealt as you deal with others.

I also suspect the angels don't give a damn.

Seen the story of Lazarus and the rich man?
Or maybe I could redo my take on the one third of heaven that fell?.....

Yes you do

You simply choose not to label it :)

But your fruits are evident to everyone
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
Stick around for this thread.....I don't have a religion.
I have no dogmatic faith.

Consequence?....yes of course.
I suspect it is dealt as you deal with others.

I also suspect the angels don't give a damn.

Seen the story of Lazarus and the rich man?
Or maybe I could redo my take on the one third of heaven that fell?.....

Not real sure where you are coming from but I really see how religion has destroyed many believer faith but I also know we need our faith to be destroyed so we can hear as a spiritual man instead of a religious man. Ray Prinzing wrote the following on Lazarus

THE RICH MAND AND LAZARUS: Luke chapter 16

Mark 4:34 says, "But without a parable Jesus spoke not unto them but when they were alone He expounded all things to His disciples." This scripture proves that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is only a parable. Contrary to traditional teaching, the rich man does not represent the wicked; neither does Lazarus the beggar represent the righteous. Psalm 37:25 says, "I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread." This parable is not a type of the righteous begging bread from the wicked.

The rich man in this parable represents Judah who had "five brethren." Judah retained the throne of Israel, which is typified by the purple the rich man was clothed in. Judah retained the priesthood which is typified by the fine linen that he was clothed in. And Judah retained Jerusalem, the prosperous headquarters of Israel, which "fared sumptuously."

Lazarus represents the rest of Israel who lived outside the gates of Jerusalem. They had lost the kingship. They had lost the priesthood, and they depended on Judah for both natural and spiritual government. Because of their rebellion against the Lord they had become spiritually starved and sick. The dogs represented the Gentiles, who shared the crumbs from the Master's table and were more of a comfort to the ten other tribes of Israel than Judah was.
The beggar died first, which represents the ten norther tribes going into captivity. "He was carried by the angels" represents God's control over their journey into captivity. And, he was comforted in Abraham's bosom, represents the spiritual revival that took place while they were in captivity.

Later on the rich man died. This represents Judah being taken into captivity about 100 years later. It says that Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom, but it says that the rich man was "buried." It does not say that Lazarus was buried. Judah, as a nation, was buried, never to be a nation in its own right again. The people of Judah will find restoration only when God reunites them once again with their brethren in the other tribes. It is true that some of Judah returned to their land after captivity, but they have lived out a miserable existence and have never been recognized as a nation in their own right again. Not even the present day state of Israel is the restoration that God is going to bring about.

The scripture says that Jesus came to his own, but His own received Him not. And Jewerey has been in a veritable lake of fire ever since they rejected Christ. There was a great gulf fixed between Lazarus and the rich man. This represents the division that was predicted in Zechariah 11:14. "I cut asunder my other staff that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel." And verse ten says they lost the covenant blessing. This great gulf is fixed so that even though Christ rose from the dead, they will not, indeed they cannot believe.

But thank God, this gulf is not eternal. A time is coming when God is going to purify and untie Israel once again and establish them as rulers in His millennial kingdom. Hosea 1:10 & 11 predicts, "In the place where it was said unto them Ye are not My people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together and appoint themselves on head (even Jesus Christ the Messiah whom they had before rejected).

Christ has bridge the great gulf and will restore the covenant blessing to a united Israel when the time is right to do so. Then will all Israel, including Judah, benefit from Ephesians 2:12-16, "That ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise. But now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us, that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Not real sure where you are coming from but I really see how religion has destroyed many believer faith but I also know we need our faith to be destroyed so we can hear as a spiritual man instead of a religious man. Ray Prinzing wrote the following on Lazarus

THE RICH MAND AND LAZARUS: Luke chapter 16

Mark 4:34 says, "But without a parable Jesus spoke not unto them but when they were alone He expounded all things to His disciples." This scripture proves that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is only a parable. Contrary to traditional teaching, the rich man does not represent the wicked; neither does Lazarus the beggar represent the righteous. Psalm 37:25 says, "I have not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread." This parable is not a type of the righteous begging bread from the wicked.

The rich man in this parable represents Judah who had "five brethren." Judah retained the throne of Israel, which is typified by the purple the rich man was clothed in. Judah retained the priesthood which is typified by the fine linen that he was clothed in. And Judah retained Jerusalem, the prosperous headquarters of Israel, which "fared sumptuously."

Lazarus represents the rest of Israel who lived outside the gates of Jerusalem. They had lost the kingship. They had lost the priesthood, and they depended on Judah for both natural and spiritual government. Because of their rebellion against the Lord they had become spiritually starved and sick. The dogs represented the Gentiles, who shared the crumbs from the Master's table and were more of a comfort to the ten other tribes of Israel than Judah was.
The beggar died first, which represents the ten norther tribes going into captivity. "He was carried by the angels" represents God's control over their journey into captivity. And, he was comforted in Abraham's bosom, represents the spiritual revival that took place while they were in captivity.

Later on the rich man died. This represents Judah being taken into captivity about 100 years later. It says that Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom, but it says that the rich man was "buried." It does not say that Lazarus was buried. Judah, as a nation, was buried, never to be a nation in its own right again. The people of Judah will find restoration only when God reunites them once again with their brethren in the other tribes. It is true that some of Judah returned to their land after captivity, but they have lived out a miserable existence and have never been recognized as a nation in their own right again. Not even the present day state of Israel is the restoration that God is going to bring about.

The scripture says that Jesus came to his own, but His own received Him not. And Jewerey has been in a veritable lake of fire ever since they rejected Christ. There was a great gulf fixed between Lazarus and the rich man. This represents the division that was predicted in Zechariah 11:14. "I cut asunder my other staff that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel." And verse ten says they lost the covenant blessing. This great gulf is fixed so that even though Christ rose from the dead, they will not, indeed they cannot believe.

But thank God, this gulf is not eternal. A time is coming when God is going to purify and untie Israel once again and establish them as rulers in His millennial kingdom. Hosea 1:10 & 11 predicts, "In the place where it was said unto them Ye are not My people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together and appoint themselves on head (even Jesus Christ the Messiah whom they had before rejected).

Christ has bridge the great gulf and will restore the covenant blessing to a united Israel when the time is right to do so. Then will all Israel, including Judah, benefit from Ephesians 2:12-16, "That ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise. But now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us, that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."

Very nice.
But my book and my view use the word...divide.

It was the angel speaking, and the divide was between the angel and the rich man....
though they stand close enough to speak face to face.

I see the parable, as an up close and personal confrontation.
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
Very nice.
But my book and my view use the word...divide.

It was the angel speaking, and the divide was between the angel and the rich man....
though they stand close enough to speak face to face.

I see the parable, as an up close and personal confrontation.
Of course there will always be the noitaint people. The narrow way is not for everyone. Most believers are so blinded by their limited faith they will never see outside their religous box. The Holy Spirit must distroy that man made religious box so we can see

Matt 7:13-15 13 is not speaking to sinners, God’s Word is written to believers because the world could careless what God’s Word says, for they are dead in trespasses and sin. You quote the scripture Matt 7:13-15 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. KJV

A narrow way is your approach to God’s Word with no, I mean no preconceived bias. There is no room for your religious baggage, it is far too narrow. Men follow their false prophets in other words: religion, creeds, dogmas, Popes, pastors and orthodoxy; and reject the Christ with in us all.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I might agree.

But I see it as up close and personal.
Hence the lack of need for dogmatic practice.

I have no creed but one....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I see it as a code of behavior and fair warning.

The angels await to do as you have done....as many times as I have brothers.
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
I might agree.

But I see it as up close and personal.
Hence the lack of need for dogmatic practice.

I have no creed but one....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I see it as a code of behavior and fair warning.

The angels await to do as you have done....as many times as I have brothers.
Well I see I am waisting my time.
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
Not at all...I just like it simple.

If heaven would call be brother and fellow servant....I'm in heaven.
If not...hell will call me slave and pet.
There is nothing simple about God's deepness.

Romans 11:33 Hear what the inspired apostle said:

Romans 11:33 (Amp) Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unfathomable (inscrutable, unsearchable) are His judgments (His decisions)! And how untraceable (mysterious, undiscoverable) are His ways (His methods, His paths)!

Romans 11:33 (NLT) Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!

Romans 11:33 (NLT) Who can measure the wealth and wisdom and knowledge of God? Who can understand his decisions or explain what he does?

Romans 11:33 (MSG) Have you ever come on anything quite like this extravagant generosity of God, this deep, deep wisdom? It's way over our heads. We'll never figure it out.

Is there anyone around who can explain God?
Anyone smart enough to tell him what to do?
Anyone who has done him such a huge favor
that God has to ask his advice?

Everything comes from him;
Everything happens through him;
Everything ends up in him.
Always glory! Always praise!
Yes. Yes. Yes.


Romans 11:33 (NLT) 33 Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!

 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
There is nothing simple about God's deepness.

Romans 11:33 Hear what the inspired apostle said:

Romans 11:33 (Amp) Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unfathomable (inscrutable, unsearchable) are His judgments (His decisions)! And how untraceable (mysterious, undiscoverable) are His ways (His methods, His paths)!

Romans 11:33 (NLT) Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!

Romans 11:33 (NLT) Who can measure the wealth and wisdom and knowledge of God? Who can understand his decisions or explain what he does?

Romans 11:33 (MSG) Have you ever come on anything quite like this extravagant generosity of God, this deep, deep wisdom? It's way over our heads. We'll never figure it out.

Is there anyone around who can explain God?
Anyone smart enough to tell him what to do?
Anyone who has done him such a huge favor
that God has to ask his advice?

Everything comes from him;
Everything happens through him;
Everything ends up in him.
Always glory! Always praise!
Yes. Yes. Yes.


Romans 11:33 (NLT) 33 Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!

You can't follow if you don't understand.

Praise is more than wordplay.

Why choose out of ignorance when able servants are present?
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
You can't follow if you don't understand.

Praise is more than wordplay.

Why choose out of ignorance when able servants are present?
It is understandable.

A little at a time.
Well let’s look at the symbolism of scripture. Clothing speaks of what we believe; example a Levitical Priest could not wear wool. You see wool speaks of sweat and toil of man’s works.

Another example of clothing:

Gen 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours (Heb0 Pieces).
KJV

Hebrew OT:6446

Pieces: pac (pas); from OT:6461; properly, the palm (of the hand) or sole (of the foot) [compare OT:6447]; by implication (plural) a long and sleeved tunic (perhaps simply a wide one; from the original sense of the root, i.e. of many breadths):

I like the thought of pieces more; you see it is line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little there a little that is how you find truth.

Today we have all kinds of religious clothing; Baptist clothing, Catholic clothing etc. pieces.

Back to Adam and Eve in the Garden; where if you look a little deep you will see the first religious act; or the fig leaf. Here is example of first time man tried to cover his nakedness with something other then God’ glory.

Also:

Isa. 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
And John wore camel hair in a dry arid land.
Ate from the nests of wild bees.

Signs and symbols are fine....for those that understand.
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
And John wore camel hair in a dry arid land.
Ate from the nests of wild bees.

Signs and symbols are fine....for those that understand.


Here is another awesome symbolism

Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:


Please some one turn the light on.

A sheep is a mature believe, a sheep is a very loyal to His master and eats only the best of the grasses. As a boy I notice the farmer would give the sheep the second and third cuttings of grass; full of leaves and substance. A cow would eat the first cutting the lesser of the hay crop, made up of stems and little leaf compared to the earlier cuttings. Of course a goat will eat any garbage as long as it is in front of his nose.


Now I want to go to Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity. Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature.

Sheep Separated from Goats

Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:


Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056


1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

On the other hand a goat is also a clean animal, now if you the verse referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal’ so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?

Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.


But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.

Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

So many of God’s people are goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture.

Is not a goat a clean animal; how can a goat be the unsaved; the unsaved are defiled; Jesus was a Jew and knew all the clean and unclean animal. So you are saying we should throw away all the OT types and dismiss them and replace them with bias Christian assumptions?

 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I've heard that sheep have to be led.
Once domesticated they will stand as is and will not search for grass or water.

Goats were used as sacrifice, the sin imparted unto them...
then led to die in the wilderness with the burden of sin upon them.

I would rather the angels call me brother and fellow servant.
 
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Benoni

Well-Known Member
I've heard that sheep have to be led.
Once domesticated they will stand as is and will not search for grass or water.

Goats were used as sacrifice, the sin imparted unto them...
then led to die in the wilderness with the burden of sin upon them.

I would rather the angels call me brother and fellow servant.
This is true. Sheep were also used as sacrifice
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
Instead of these ridiculous cryptic answers - why don't you try telling us what you think Acts 15:16-18 means - in relation to his "consequence" question - since you replied to it?
Because this is very much a cryptic answer like all spiritual deep truths of the Bible. This verse totally is ignored by most believes because they think nothing is hidden in scripture. Plus it totally goes against the teachings of the vast majority of christian religions. And boy do bias religious people hate that.


And again - you don't actually answer the question.


Is posting cryptic messages - along with Christian Verses - and not actually answering questions/debating - what got you banned last time?



*
 

Benoni

Well-Known Member
And again - you don't actually answer the question.


Is posting cryptic messages - along with Christian Verses - and not actually answering questions/debating - what got you banned last time?



*
I do. With people who I have a reason to debate
All you have is personal attacks
 
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