Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
What does this have to do with anything?
Already reached the point of throwing out non-sequiturs as distraction?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
What does this have to do with anything?
Already reached the point of throwing out non-sequiturs as distraction?
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
that's because you've forgotten where this line began:
God is not culpable for your bad behaviour anymore than I am for yours, except to you. you wish to spread the responsibility.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Well, in fact I didn't forget where it began. Wrong again.
If God made people, knowing ahead of time that they were going to sin, and he is all powerful, then he is culpable for their sins.
That's what this whole debate has been about. It has nothing to do with God blaming you for anybody else's actions. C'mon, try to stay focused.
AK4
Well-Known Member
Culpable is definitely the wrong word
cul·pa·ble (kŭl'pə-bəl) Pronunciation Key
adj. Deserving of blame or censure as being wrong, evil, improper, or injurious. See Synonyms at blameworthy.
He is responsible and takes responsibilty that is why He will judge the world---to set things right.
Hes not culpable because who can say what God is doing is wrong? Do they know more than God that they could have done everything better?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
If I was all-powerful and all-knowing then, yes, I could do it better.
If I were narcisstic enough to need worshipers, I wouldn't punish them for doing things that I foresaw they would do ahead of time. It doesn't take being a god to understand that foreknowledge of something necessarily precludes anything else happening, ergo, they would have no choice, therefore no responsibility.
I, on the other hand, being omni-everything, would be completely responsible, and culpable.
TheAceOfKnaves
Member
Matthew 25:32 "Then all the nations will be gathered together, and he will separate the people from one another". I don't know if the Scriptures can be more explicit than that about whether or not people will go to Hell.
JustWondering
Jerk
I believe there is a verse in revelations that clearly states non-believers will be tossed into the lake of fire by angels.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Vs. 33 of Matt. 25;" Then he will put the Sheep on his right( Or the humans) and the Goats on his Left( or the demons). Vs.41; " Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels."
Notice " Accursed ones", meaning they were doomed from their creation. Humans are not accursed, they were not doomed from their creation. But christianitys doctrines really teach that God has effectively doomed much of humanity from their creation, by giving them " Free Will", or the " Self power to Pick their future with God", something most humans hold no power to even do on their own.
God PREPARED this great Lake FOR the Devil and his demons, and the devil KNOWS this, so he is teaching believers that the lake is for THEM, not him!
And I want to go into that pathology.
Peace.
TheAceOfKnaves
Member
If the Devil truly were behind this, why would he let humans believe that he too was destined for the eternal fire? Why wouldn't he carry the lie out all the way and eliminate himself as an accursed being? And the idea that somehow a distinction between devils and humans occurs when God places all the nations on either His right or His left is complete and false inference. And if God gave us free will, as you so rightly agreed to, then God is not responsible for our doom, we are.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
Mickiel, this is how debate works: both sides present arguments. If one side can provide conclusive proof and the other cannot, the side with proof is right and the side without proof is wrong. If one side presents proof which is shown to be incorrect, that proof does not count.
In this debate, you have provided numerous proofs, ALL of which have been refuted. Therefore none of your proof counts. Your opposition has provided numerous proofs, NONE of which have been refuted, and very few of which you have even responded to. Therefore, you are wrong.
To refute your most recent:
From Merriam Webster:
accursed 1) being under or as if under a curse <an accursed people>
2) damnable.
ones 1) — see number table
2) the number denoting unity
3) a: the first in a set or series —often used with an attributive noun <day one> b: an article of clothing of a size designated one <wears a one>
4) a single person or thing <has the one but needs the other>
5) a one-dollar bill
This phrase simply does not mean what you say it means. EVERY SINGLE POST you have made on this thread has been refuted, and you have not responded to a single one; you have simply repeated the same incorrect idea in different words over and over again.
NUMEROUS biblical passages have been cited on this thread proving that god sends humans to hell. These include the passage about Lazarus and the rich man, the sheep and the goats, and parts in revelation about throwing those whose name was not written in the book of life into the lake of fire.
Your insistence on this one point with total disregard for anyone else's posts is not only misguided, it has become rude. You are doing a disservice to all involved in this debate, including yourself.
I challenge you: Please cite ONE (or more) passage(s) that state that the bolded statement above is true (the statement in my quote of you). I'm not asking you to provide as much evidence as we have presented or even to prove your entire point, just part of it.
Please respond explicitly to this post, quoting relevant sections with your refutations.
If you cannot refute this simple argument by providing a single biblical verse to back up your point, then please back down and stop posting on this thread.
If you cannot refute this simple argument by providing a single biblical verse to back up your point, then you are wrong, and you need to learn how to admit that.
To ensure that you cannot avoid this by "not seeing it", I am sending this to you as a PM also.
In this debate, you have provided numerous proofs, ALL of which have been refuted. Therefore none of your proof counts. Your opposition has provided numerous proofs, NONE of which have been refuted, and very few of which you have even responded to. Therefore, you are wrong.
To refute your most recent:
From Merriam Webster:
accursed 1) being under or as if under a curse <an accursed people>
2) damnable.
ones 1) — see number table
2) the number denoting unity
3) a: the first in a set or series —often used with an attributive noun <day one> b: an article of clothing of a size designated one <wears a one>
4) a single person or thing <has the one but needs the other>
5) a one-dollar bill
This phrase simply does not mean what you say it means. EVERY SINGLE POST you have made on this thread has been refuted, and you have not responded to a single one; you have simply repeated the same incorrect idea in different words over and over again.
NUMEROUS biblical passages have been cited on this thread proving that god sends humans to hell. These include the passage about Lazarus and the rich man, the sheep and the goats, and parts in revelation about throwing those whose name was not written in the book of life into the lake of fire.
Your insistence on this one point with total disregard for anyone else's posts is not only misguided, it has become rude. You are doing a disservice to all involved in this debate, including yourself.
I challenge you: Please cite ONE (or more) passage(s) that state that the bolded statement above is true (the statement in my quote of you). I'm not asking you to provide as much evidence as we have presented or even to prove your entire point, just part of it.
Please respond explicitly to this post, quoting relevant sections with your refutations.
If you cannot refute this simple argument by providing a single biblical verse to back up your point, then please back down and stop posting on this thread.
If you cannot refute this simple argument by providing a single biblical verse to back up your point, then you are wrong, and you need to learn how to admit that.
To ensure that you cannot avoid this by "not seeing it", I am sending this to you as a PM also.
Last edited:
TheAceOfKnaves
Member
Thank you, Imagist, for so eloquently putting into words what I have been feeling for this entire debate. I appreciate it.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Hi mickiel, yes it is true that there is no such place as Hell in the context of eternal punishment,...this is a misconception of the eastern doctrine of karma and reincarnation.
So long as the spirit of the deceased human is unable to function out of body in a non-material environment, i.e. not yet born of the spirit, it must inevitably reincarnate into the human kingdom and once again suffer the fate of a mortal existence which is a mere reflected image of the perfect spiritual existence.
Karma and reincarnation are eternal principles but there is a limit to the number of reincarnations it takes to attain to graduation, i.e. "being born of the spirit".
So although there are over 6 billion incarnate human entities on the planet at this time, there will only be a minority which will 'graduate' to a higher kingdom at the end this life, the vast majority will reincarnate. However, they will all eventually graduate in future lives,..there is no such place as Hell!
IOW, all activity, both the apparent good and the evil, is predicated towards the ultimate understanding WHAT and WHO we really are!
This succinct little poem capture the essential movement of this eternal flow of life towards it's inevitable source, I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA.
I died as a mineral and became a plant;
I died as a plant and rose to animal;
I died as animal and I was a man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as man to soar...
With angels blest.
But even from an angel I must pass on:
All except God must perish.
When I have sacrificed my angel soul,
I shall become what no mind ever conceived.
JALALUDDIN RUMI
JustWondering
Jerk
The idea of eternal torture is a sick concept. Which means the Biblical God and those who agree with the idea of hell are sick individuals. However, according to the bible thats how it is. If someones idea of God does not involve him being a saddistic, violent, jealous, and petty tyrant they are clearly not following the Christian God or do not have a clear understanding of the Christian God.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Bruce Almighty.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Wow, you're right and everyone else is wrong. why didn't I think of that?
mickiel
Well-Known Member
The concept of eternal hell suffering is demented and insane. Imagine what it would entail. I could take a simple sowing needle, and begin to stick it in someones forehead. Lets just say I did this once a minute, for twenty four hours a day. After 30 or 40 days of this constant little pricking, the human would just about be ready for insanity. Muchless 100 years of it, but people think God will afflict even worse on humans for even longer than 40 days, but 400,000,000 trillion times 678, 999, 543 billion years on into never ending infinity.
What Kind of being do you think God is? That would be PURE insanity, and produce nothing but insanity.
Good Greif, I would have nothing to do with a religion that tells these lies on God.
Don't you believe that about God.
Peace.
What Kind of being do you think God is? That would be PURE insanity, and produce nothing but insanity.
Good Greif, I would have nothing to do with a religion that tells these lies on God.
Don't you believe that about God.
Peace.
JustWondering
Jerk
If there is a God and we were created in his image it is possible that he would create a place of eternal suffering. Humans are not much on forgiveness and understanding.
Know the Truth
Member
You are right that God created them and knew all would sin and only some would be saved. But each one of those people have choices and they choose their destiny. As much as some of us may hate to ad=mit it, the one who creates gets to make the rules. It is a cold hard fact of life.
JustWondering
Jerk
Sadly that is true. There are treatments for depression, I emplore anyone reading this to seek professional help. All is not lost.