Just think, some people are looking at you and imagining you being tormented forever in hell fire. That should be a sad thing, but some get a thrill considering the concept.
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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
The whole concept was concocted by man as some sort of perverted, sadistic revenge fantasy and as a threat of postmortem spankings that no one would actually have to carry out and yet still keep people in line.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Thats because they are sick, just as sick as the concept. Are you one of the people that gets a kick out of Hell?
Peace.
Former Minister
New Member
Just do as most Christians do and disregard the parts of the Bible that you don't like. I just love it when I'm told that I don't understand the Bible. Does anyone understand it? I have read and preached it most of my life and I will agree that I don't understand it. The more I read, the less I understand.
RamaRaksha
*banned*
I have always been uncomfortable with God running Hell; a torture chamber is unbecoming of God. Recently there was this video of this young woman in the swat area of Pakistan controlled by the Taliban, being held down and mercilessly whipped, as she cried out in pain. Do we really think God would be so merciless and cruel? God uses such crude and blunt methods to teach us a lesson?
Lets take an example: A mother abandons her new-born baby in a trash-bin. The child grows up in the streets, abused, beaten, mocked, hungry and lonely, never knowing love and affection. As a grown-up he commits several crimes. Once he dies, some religions tell us that he will go to hell, where he is abused, beaten & mocked! Does this seem right?
We can all agree that no one is born evil babies come into this world full of innocence, seeking love with blind trust. Give them a loving nurturing environment and they turn into Gandhis and Mother Teresas. Bring them up in a brutal, unloving, hateful environment and they most likely will turn into murderers and killers. It is a known fact that most abusers themselves were abused in their childhood. This is not to excuse their actions, but do we really want a God who uses the same brutal, abusive and hateful environment to impart a lesson? If a brutal, hateful environment gave rise to an evil person, why do we expect a similar environment to produce better results?
Karma & Rebirth is the Non-Violent way. One is not simply forgiven or given a beating, but is asked to take responsibility for the acts of a prior life, and is being a second chance to make things right. Come back in a second life and try to lessen the suffering of those whom you might have wronged. Remember Karma means that you are being given another chance to put things right, not being punished.
Besides the laws of Karma & Rebirth seem to clash with the concept of Hell. If we are punished in hell, then how can we suffer the consequences of karma from a previous birth? Doesnt that mean we suffer twice for the same offense? If hell is the violent way of imparting a lesson then Karma is the non-violent way.
Lets take another example: A kid continues to misbehave in a store in spite of the admonishments of his father. While running around the store the kid breaks a product. What is the father to do? Simply forgiving the kid will achieve nothing but then is beating him the right answer? It did used to happen a lot in the olden days parents used to use a leather belt or a cane to discipline their children. Such cruel & abusive methods must have left serious emotional scars on the child. Either way the child does not learn to take responsibility for his actions.
Thankfully nowadays use of such physical violence against innocent children has declined. Todays parents are encouraged to talk to their kids and use softer methods to teach the right values to their children. The right way is to either withhold the kids allowance towards the cost of the product or make him do chores around the house to pay for the cost of the product. The child learns to take responsibility for his actions, learns the cost of his misbehavior and the right lessons are imparted.
Another example: You are driving a car at night in a dense fog and you can barely see anything. Suddenly you hear a bump as if you had hit something. Do you continue to go forward, ignoring that you might have hit someone, and leave the forgiveness or punishment to God? Or do you stop the car, attend to the person whom you might have injured, take him to a hospital & pay the cost of his hospital care? The latter is about taking responsibility for our actions and doing the right thing. This is what Karma & Rebirth allows one to do.
There are countries presently using brutal methods of justice like cutting of hands and public whip-lashing, while others follow a more civilized justice system giving the accused an opportunity to defend himself and using a more humane, nay Hindu, method of justice if convicted. Which method do we think God should be using? Are some religions stuck with primitive ideas, forcing upon God their own primitive ideas? Truly mind-boggling is that the much older Hinduism is asking us to treat even evil-doers humanely.
Is it better to do something because it is the right thing to do or because you are afraid of the punishment that would be meted out? Some countries use the honor system for train travel passengers are not checked for tickets before boarding, instead they ask the traveler to police themselves do the right thing and we all benefit. In some villages people do not even bother to lock their doors when they go out, again trusting their fellow man to do the right thing. It is no coincidence that such countries are a pleasure to live in these countries are following the path of Karma introspection and self-policing, not depending on some brutal heavy-handed justice by X power.
Karma teaches us that we cannot run away from our mistakes, whether knowingly or unknowingly committed, asks us to take responsibility, and makes us realize that justice is in our hands. Follow the path of Karma and one realizes that we create the world that we live in.
Besides with Rebirth, one is given the greatest Gift of all the Gift of Life, over and over again! Why be limited to just one life when one can receive the greatest Gift over and over again? As I get older I reflect on my past and wish that in some cases I could get a do-over - The lost love, the missed opportunities, the thoughtless words and actions But with Rebirth I get a second chance! What a great Gift!
So, once and for all, lets put away the concept of Hell, a brutal, violent, abusive place unworthy of God. What is mind-boggling to me is that a faith thousands of years old is teaching todays values, I mean it was not that long ago when giving the belt to a misbehaving child was not uncommon.
I sometimes feel sad for christians and muslims, according to their scripture they are limited to but one life.
Lets take an example: A mother abandons her new-born baby in a trash-bin. The child grows up in the streets, abused, beaten, mocked, hungry and lonely, never knowing love and affection. As a grown-up he commits several crimes. Once he dies, some religions tell us that he will go to hell, where he is abused, beaten & mocked! Does this seem right?
We can all agree that no one is born evil babies come into this world full of innocence, seeking love with blind trust. Give them a loving nurturing environment and they turn into Gandhis and Mother Teresas. Bring them up in a brutal, unloving, hateful environment and they most likely will turn into murderers and killers. It is a known fact that most abusers themselves were abused in their childhood. This is not to excuse their actions, but do we really want a God who uses the same brutal, abusive and hateful environment to impart a lesson? If a brutal, hateful environment gave rise to an evil person, why do we expect a similar environment to produce better results?
Karma & Rebirth is the Non-Violent way. One is not simply forgiven or given a beating, but is asked to take responsibility for the acts of a prior life, and is being a second chance to make things right. Come back in a second life and try to lessen the suffering of those whom you might have wronged. Remember Karma means that you are being given another chance to put things right, not being punished.
Besides the laws of Karma & Rebirth seem to clash with the concept of Hell. If we are punished in hell, then how can we suffer the consequences of karma from a previous birth? Doesnt that mean we suffer twice for the same offense? If hell is the violent way of imparting a lesson then Karma is the non-violent way.
Lets take another example: A kid continues to misbehave in a store in spite of the admonishments of his father. While running around the store the kid breaks a product. What is the father to do? Simply forgiving the kid will achieve nothing but then is beating him the right answer? It did used to happen a lot in the olden days parents used to use a leather belt or a cane to discipline their children. Such cruel & abusive methods must have left serious emotional scars on the child. Either way the child does not learn to take responsibility for his actions.
Thankfully nowadays use of such physical violence against innocent children has declined. Todays parents are encouraged to talk to their kids and use softer methods to teach the right values to their children. The right way is to either withhold the kids allowance towards the cost of the product or make him do chores around the house to pay for the cost of the product. The child learns to take responsibility for his actions, learns the cost of his misbehavior and the right lessons are imparted.
Another example: You are driving a car at night in a dense fog and you can barely see anything. Suddenly you hear a bump as if you had hit something. Do you continue to go forward, ignoring that you might have hit someone, and leave the forgiveness or punishment to God? Or do you stop the car, attend to the person whom you might have injured, take him to a hospital & pay the cost of his hospital care? The latter is about taking responsibility for our actions and doing the right thing. This is what Karma & Rebirth allows one to do.
There are countries presently using brutal methods of justice like cutting of hands and public whip-lashing, while others follow a more civilized justice system giving the accused an opportunity to defend himself and using a more humane, nay Hindu, method of justice if convicted. Which method do we think God should be using? Are some religions stuck with primitive ideas, forcing upon God their own primitive ideas? Truly mind-boggling is that the much older Hinduism is asking us to treat even evil-doers humanely.
Is it better to do something because it is the right thing to do or because you are afraid of the punishment that would be meted out? Some countries use the honor system for train travel passengers are not checked for tickets before boarding, instead they ask the traveler to police themselves do the right thing and we all benefit. In some villages people do not even bother to lock their doors when they go out, again trusting their fellow man to do the right thing. It is no coincidence that such countries are a pleasure to live in these countries are following the path of Karma introspection and self-policing, not depending on some brutal heavy-handed justice by X power.
Karma teaches us that we cannot run away from our mistakes, whether knowingly or unknowingly committed, asks us to take responsibility, and makes us realize that justice is in our hands. Follow the path of Karma and one realizes that we create the world that we live in.
Besides with Rebirth, one is given the greatest Gift of all the Gift of Life, over and over again! Why be limited to just one life when one can receive the greatest Gift over and over again? As I get older I reflect on my past and wish that in some cases I could get a do-over - The lost love, the missed opportunities, the thoughtless words and actions But with Rebirth I get a second chance! What a great Gift!
So, once and for all, lets put away the concept of Hell, a brutal, violent, abusive place unworthy of God. What is mind-boggling to me is that a faith thousands of years old is teaching todays values, I mean it was not that long ago when giving the belt to a misbehaving child was not uncommon.
I sometimes feel sad for christians and muslims, according to their scripture they are limited to but one life.
slave2six
Substitious
As one who was pounded on regularly as a child, I can tell you that this statement is completely false. I learned personal responsibility quite well. And there are no horrible emotional scars or anything of the sort.
Thanks for playing though!
RamaRaksha
*banned*
LOL you are unique. Quick question - would you use the same methods on your own children?
Diederick
Active Member
Indeed, it strikes me as sickening to think anyone would still physically abuse children - especially their own. Physical punishment stinks, in every way it is imagined.
No, I am not. If you ever spent any time with me, you would know that is the furthest from the truth of the matter.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well I am curious about one thing, the title " Reverend", which certain people use. Reverend means " Worthy of Reverence", or the honor of Veneration. To look at someone with awe. I don't see anyone worthy of that other than Christ and God themselves, so why do men call themselves Reverend?
Peace.
All men are sinners, including myself. I am imperfect. I am also a work in progress and like to believe I am walking in the right direction, although I still have a long journey.
I don't believe I should be looked on with awe.
I don't call myself Reverend, unless you count when I sign a marriage license.
I am a servant of God, not someone that is worthy of Reverence.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Well I just go by your name here online, it says reverend Rick. In Psalms 111:9 it says that " Holy and Reverend is Gods name." The bible just comes right out and says " Reverend is Gods name", so I have always wondered why men have taken on what is rightfully Gods.
Peace.
You're preaching a God that criminals who run from the law all their lives and only yell mercy when they're caught and it's time to pay the penalty for breaking laws hope for.
Sorry, but God isn't the fool you hope He is. He cannot stand sin and he will not be mocked. Sorry.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
You're preaching a God that criminals who run from the law all their lives and only yell mercy when they're caught and it's time to pay the penalty for breaking laws hope for.
Well yes, your exactly right, thats what the real God will do, and no hell minded, punishment pupil from christianity can change that. The theif on the cross was exactly such a man who sinned and broke the law all of his life, they just happened to hang Jesus next to him, and the Lamb of God forgave him of every lifetime sin he committed.
And by the way, it was like minded people who think like you that hung Jesus and killed him. Serious lawkeepers who hated sin.
Peace.
I can beleive how this has gone so far, because Satan is behind it.
Just as he slandered Jehovah in the Garden fo Eden and how he has slandered us while speaking to Jehovah about Job.
and people will belive it because thats all they have known.
What about God do you want to know?
Former Minister
New Member
Just do as the other Christians do and pick and chose the parts you like and make excuses for the rest of the Bible. Christians claim to accept the Bible as written. If it's not all true, how can you believe any of it. I stopped reading fiction when I turned my robe in. I will never worship anyone or any God as long as I live. To bow to the Pope is an act of ignorance. The Pope should bow to the people that give the church money to support him. It will take many years but someday this and past generations will be looked back upon as being llike the cave men when it comes to thinking with our brains. actually they were smarter than Christians. This earth is over 10 billion years old. That is a proven fact and not fiction. When did God make Heaven and earth?? Open up your minds and stop being fearful of going to hell. Stop teaching this fable to your children and putting fear in them. They deserve better.
who said I believe in the Pope? jeez that man is just a man.
10 billion years old yes I could agree with that, because the beginning scripture tells us that the heaven and earth were created and that the earth was formless and waste, i dont doubt it was over 10 billion years old.
also i dont doubt the big bang theory either, just what though, created the enrgy for the big bang to start in hte first place?
I dont believe in Hell fire either, why would a God known as being love not just having love but at 1 John 4:8 says "God is Love" allow people to suffer for all eternity?
He would rather they didnt exist than them suffer, but it all comes down to those who choose to serve God and those who dont
10 billion years old yes I could agree with that, because the beginning scripture tells us that the heaven and earth were created and that the earth was formless and waste, i dont doubt it was over 10 billion years old.
also i dont doubt the big bang theory either, just what though, created the enrgy for the big bang to start in hte first place?
I dont believe in Hell fire either, why would a God known as being love not just having love but at 1 John 4:8 says "God is Love" allow people to suffer for all eternity?
He would rather they didnt exist than them suffer, but it all comes down to those who choose to serve God and those who dont
Muffled
Jesus in me
That does not make sense. Everyone goes into the grave but not everyone has been cremated. Of course Christians have a different view of what happens after death..
You assume a lot about God. The question isn't whether the punishment is cruel but whether it is deserved.
On the contrary God does not think like me and I know well that He doesn't. I probably would do that sort of thing but God isn't taking advice from me for sure. I don't think God needs it but I do think people need it. If irmly believe in giving people a dose of their own medicine and I believe that God does also.
No! and the verse doesn't say that either. Too bad you don't know how to read between the lines.
Nothing but your s is surely skewed.
No! because the verse does not say that.
Yes. We are on very good terms. (He keeps telling me how pleased He is with me; it gets embarrassing.)
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Oh so now you expect me to believe that Jesus keeps telling you how pleased he is with you. You got so much religious pride, it has its own odor. Makes me wonder what really is telling you things, I hope it never speaks to me.
Peace
Muffled
Jesus in me
Several times but it is always good to refresh my memory to relate it to this topic.
You are in error, hell is not mentioned in this chapter.
Neither God nor Jesus says that people get into Heaven based on how they act.
I believe in having compassion on monsters. I was going to pray for Saddam Hussein but God told me not to.