The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

If you don't believe the bible, thats your problem. christians do not interpit the bible for me. God is nothing like Hitler, only disillusioned people see a hell in the bible.

But God didn't actually write the Bible, did he? It was written by humans.

God is not limited as to what he can do, and who he does it through, your belief in that is just limited. Inspiring a human to write is nothing for God to do. And it means nothing that many humans do not understand that.

Peace.

 

[Amill]

Hell is a sick concept whether you look at it as man made or god made.

Man made
- Used to scare people to believe
- Used to scare people to follow

God made
- Used to scare people to believe
- Used to scare people to follow
- God wants people to get tortured for eternity

Disgusting either way.

 

[Kurt31416]

There is no hell or satan-god, all evil comes from within the hearts of men, is what Einstein and the historical Jesus said.

 

[mickiel]

Hell is a sick concept whether you look at it as man made or god made.

Man made
- Used to scare people to believe
- Used to scare people to follow

God made
- Used to scare people to believe
- Used to scare people to follow
- God wants people to get tortured for eternity

Disgusting either way.

If I might add, why would an all wise God even need a hell to torture humanity who does not believe? If I held the power of life and death in my mind, why should I construct an eternal reminder of evil, and allow it to exist forever in my reality, thus errecting it as a monument for all time, when I could just will evil out of existance period. See people don't know how God really is, so they construct their belief in the only way they know how, and that is the human way of dealing with sin and evil.

God is Love, Peace, Joy and Gentleness, all definte reasons as to why eternal hell willnot exist. But we humans do not understand those qualitys on the level that God has then in him.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

If I might add, why would an all wise God even need a hell to torture humanity who does not believe? If I held the power of life and death in my mind, why should I construct an eternal reminder of evil, and allow it to exist forever in my reality, thus errecting it as a monument for all time, when I could just will evil out of existance period. See people don't know how God really is, so they construct their belief in the only way they know how, and that is the human way of dealing with sin and evil.

God is Love, Peace, Joy and Gentleness, all definte reasons as to why eternal hell willnot exist. But we humans do not understand those qualitys on the level that God has then in him.

Peace.

There are 9 good reasons why there will be no eternal hell suffering.

Read themin Gal. 5:22-23.

Peace.

 

[Muffled]

Well I disagree with you, plenty of people are without God in their life. Ephesians 2:12," Remember that you were at that time seperate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the covenant of promise, having no hope and " Without God in the World." Your statement " No one is ever without God", is simply inncorrect, and 1Corinth. 5:13 relates the same thing.

You are also severely inncorrect by prejudging me and saying that I avoid God, I do no such thing. I am insulted by your accusation that I avoid God, thats a horrible thing to say to one that you don't even know.

But thats how christians do things. Say things which are unbiblical and insulting. Gal. 4:8 shows that one has to come to know God, and listening to christians is not the way to come to know God.

Peace.

The question becomes what you mean by "without God." Technically because I don't have a physical Jesus walking by my side, I am without God. The verse you quoted in essence means that the Gentiles did not have a knowledge of God and were without him as a guide to their lives. However no-one takes a breath without God allowing it to happen. You could say that the Paraoh that Moses spoke the Word of God to was without God in the sense that he didn't recognize God's authority but he found the presence of God through the plagues on Egypt.

This passage actually means to be without the salavation of God.

I do not prejudge, so it must have been something you said that misled me.

I accept your testimony since I have no reason to doubt it.

I apologize for being rash. Sometimes I do it just to tweak people but somehow you gave me that false impression. Since I can't undo the insult I will simply praise you for setting the record straight.

This is an unjustified generalization. I may have this tendency but that doesn't mean that every Christian does.

This conclusion is not supported by the scripture you listed. I did not come to God by someone saying something true about him but something false. However there was also a testimony by a Christian that was quite helpful in my coming to God.

My advice is to listen to Christians carefully. Not everything you hear is necessarily so. Make sure they back up their statemnents with scripture or experience. If they don't check the subject out for yourself in the Bible. However I suggest you test your understanding of the Bible against others because you do not appear to have the gift of understanding.

 

[elisheba]

if anyone was allowed in heaven - some would ruin the peaceful atmosphere there just like they do here

 

[mickiel]

My advice is to listen to Christians carefully. Not everything you hear is necessarily so. Make sure they back up their statemnents with scripture or experience. If they don't check the subject out for yourself in the Bible. However I suggest you test your understanding of the Bible against others because you do not appear to have the gift of understanding.

Well I can honor much of what you said, it sounds like an apology. And I agree with listening carefully to people. I listen, and you give yet another judgemental observation: I do not appear to have the gift of understanding. It matters not to me what christians judge me to have or not to have, because christians are not my judge. They don't have anything to do with my understanding, or my salvation, yet many of them speak as if they do.

And you are no different. Once a man of God was asked if he would rather be judged by people, or by God. He of course stated that he would take his chances with God, because he knew how deadly and unjust the judgement of men really is.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

if anyone was allowed in heaven - some would ruin the peaceful atmosphere there just like they do here

So very true.

If the Kingdom of God is like the christians on earth, its already contaminated. Few christians realize how dead they are, until they come out of the graveyard in which they learn and worship.

Peace.

 

[Danarch]

The concepts of heaven and hell are all too dated. The vatican needs to hold another meeting to change the bible again. Without this, christianity will end up in the graveyard of religions.

 

[Madhuri]

I agree that hell is a disgusting concept used to trap people with fear. No all-powerful 'good' and loving God would, in my opinion, allow such a thing to exist. Especially an -eternal- place of suffering. Only a complete sadist would allow such a thing.

 

[Bick]

Yes, the popular Christian doctrine of "wicked, unbelieving souls suffering eternally in fire and brimstone (hell) somewhere in the earth" is a sad commentary on the God of love and mercy, that I believe the literal (true) meaning of the Scriptures teaches.

The 'translators' of the early English Bibles (and later 'translators' too) had already been endoctrinated with the belief (basically from Greek philosophy) that man has an eternal soul which, upon death of the person, either enjoys the blessings of heaven, or, conscious eternal punishment in 'hell.'

THAT IS NOT IN THE LITERAL VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE.

Man is created a living soul, a sentient being. Scripturally speaking, the human "soul" is simply the human experience. It is the perception of the senses.

The connection of the "soul" with the senses is evidenced by such passages as these:

"My 'soul' is disgusted with my life; I shall give free rein to myself and my concern; let me speak of the bitterness of my 'soul' (Job 10:1).

"..with all the yearning of your 'soul' you may sacrifice and eat flesh (Deut. 12:15; cp vs. 20,21).

"..you may eat grapes to your 'souls' needs..."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why do you keep quoting the Bible as a defense when its the Bible that gives us the concept of Hell in the first place? That's like quoting the more rational portions of Mein Kampf.

What exactly is hell? Jesus was buried in hell. (Acts 2:27,31)

Hell is translated from the Hebrew word: sheol.
Hell is translated from the Greek word: hades.

However, the word for hellfire is another word.
The word is: Gehenna.
Gehenna in Jesus day was a garbage dump where things were destroyed.
Gehenna became a fitting symbol for destruction not eternal burning.

Psalm (92:7) is interesting because it mentions that it is the wicked that will be destroyed forever. Even Satan will be destroyed according to Hebrews (2:14 B). All the wicked will be destroyed Psalm (145:20) adds.
Punishment, according to 2nd Thess (1:9), is everlasting destruction.

Since Jesus was not in Gehenna but in hell he was resurrected by God.
Jesus was from the spirit realm and returned there.
Jesus opened up the way to heaven. However, those that died before Jesus died (such as David -Acts 2:34) will be part of those resurrected on earth in fulfillment of the promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed, and and all nations of the earth will be blessed (Genesis 3:12; 22:18). This will occur during Jesus thousand-year rule over earth (Rev 22:2).

Please notice all buried in hell (the common grave of mankind) will be resurrected because Rev. (20:13) says hell 'delivers up' the dead. In other words, hell is emptied out. Then emptied-out hell and death symbolically die a second death or a death of no return.

Only those who have committed the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6) will Not have a resurrection (Acts 24:15) to either heaven or earth.

The Bible promises a bright future is ahead of us because Jesus is the crowned acting King of God's kingdom.


(Daniel 7:13,14; 2:44)

 

[Bick]

No matter what a hell humping christian says to you about the future of unbelievers, Titus 2:11 simply sums it all up;" For the Grace of God has appeared, bringing Salvation to ALL humans!"

Notice Salvation was " Brought to Earth by God", not summoned to earth by human belief. Also notice it was delivered to earth for ALL humans, and unbelievers cannot be excluded from that by pious over zealous believers.

We ALL will make it in the end.

Peace.

Good points, Mickiel. I am convinced, not from human logic, but from the literal meaning of the Scriptures, that "God is the Saviour of all men, and especially of those who believe." 1 Tim. 4:10, NIV.

It is also written in 1 Tim. 2:3 "..God our Saviour, who will have all men to be saved and to come into the knowledge of the truth."

Yes, the power and love of God go beyond anything our puny minds can comprehend.

It is also stated that all must give account for their deeds:

"...men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken." Matt. 12:36, NIV.

ALL JUDGMENT ENTRUSTED TO THE SON (JESUS):
"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son..."
John 5:22

"As surely as I live, says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God,'
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God." Rom. 14:11-12, NIV.

But, today is the day of Salvation. Today you can know peace and joy abounding, by receiving Christ into your heart. Because of the cross, God is not reckoning our trespasses against us, but has reconciled us to himself. He desires you to be reconciled to Him, thus making peace.

Bick

 

[jtartar]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

michiel,
I must say that you are perspicacious, for many have read the same scriptures and do not understand the simple facts as you expressed them.
Most claimed christians are not really trying to be mean, when they speak of eternal punishment, they just lack understanding of God's way and His word.
To corroberate your thinking, please consider a few scriptures.
1John 4:8, says that God IS LOVE. Notice that this scripture does not say that God has an attribute of love, like it is said in the scriptures when giving descriptive names for God, called Proper Adjectives. This scripture says that GOD IS LOVE!!! This alone assures us that God would never punish people FOREVER, for wrongs they committed over a few decades, at the most. The fact is God has had His writers record that exact fact, at Rom 6:7, which says that when a person dies he is ACQUITTED from his sin. When someone is acquitted, it means he does not pay, in any way, for the things he did anymore. At Rom 6:23 the Bible tells us that the wages of sin is DEATH, so when we die we have paid the ultimate price for his sins. Nothing more is owed, either by the sinner or by God. The person sinned, he received his wages, DEATH.
The real reason for this malentendu is interpreters of the Greek word Hades. The word Hell is a corruption of the Greek word. The original word had no meaning of punishment to the Greek speaking people. This Greek word Hades has the exact meaning of the Hebrew word Sheol. This is estabolished by comparing Ps 16:10 with Acts 2:27,31. Notice that these scriptures are telling us that Jesus went into Hades, or Hell for parts of three days. Since Jesus was perfect all his life and never sinned, he definitely would not have spent one second in a place of torment.
Another point on this is what Job said at Job 14:13-15, where Job was asking to go sheol to get out of the torment he was in. Think, if he was going into a hell as explained by most religious teachers, would he ask to got there and wait until God would get over His anger and call him back from death, because God would have a yearning to see Job again.
A couple of other scriptures about Jehovah God's righteousness. Consider Deut 32:4, which says that God is just and righteous in every dealing, Ps 86:5,15, Job 34:10,12.
The truth is; God will not torture anyone, man or angel!!!
So, exactly what does the Bible indicate as the punishment for unrepentant sinners??
Remember that the wages for sin is death!!! Rom 6:23. This is made very clear at 2Thess 1:6-9, with the emphysis on verse 9, which tells us that the judicial punishment is EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION, not everlasting life in punishment. Consider also what we are told at Rev 20:14,15, where we are told that everyone whose name is not in the Book of Life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, THE SECOND DEATH!!! The picture of the smoke coming from the Lake of Fire is a symbol that tells us that nothing thrown there will ever come out, because the fare is always burning.
God's purpose is to make this earth a paradise. This cannot happen unless the earth is rid of people who just will not listen, Isa 11:1-9, Isa 26:10, Isa 65:17,25, Rom 3:5,5, 2Pet 3:7, Rev 21:1-4, Luke 23:43.

 

[mickiel]

God's purpose is to make this earth a paradise. This cannot happen unless the earth is rid of people who just will not listen, Isa 11:1-9, Isa 26:10, Isa 65:17,25, Rom 3:5,5, 2Pet 3:7, Rev 21:1-4, Luke 23:43.

I agree with much of what you said, but I disagree that God will " Get Rid" of anyone.

People who willnot listen, need salvation MORE than those who do listen.

Peace.

 

[shadze]

Sigh another monstrosity myth given to the church by insecure poewer hungry buffoon.
how can anyone in thier right mind consider God is a torturer. With one word saying he loves all mankind with another is prepared to see thee majority of his creation suffer. Be tormented. At least Hitler had compassion and allowed people death. This Gods compassion Not only torments them in death but makes them suffer further after life. Imagine being a unbeliever in Auchwitz. This belief goes agains all bibical teaching and caters to the sself rightiuos. Get off your high horse and preach the living word as is written. not the so called doctrinal version. Christ came to save ALL MANKIND. not a few who passed for good behaviour. His cost was everybody and everything.Fitting reward for the Son of God. This was the good news shouted by the angels. peace to all.
OOO i hear the whispers of the bitter. The second son of the prodigal son parable.
Why do they get salvation while we were the good children. Grow up saints . You will inherit all earth. you would be blood children of God.Is this not reward enuff. I do not begrudge anyone who gains salvation . It is Christ who has these keys. it is Christ who can save EVEN AFTER DEATH. Blessed be the son of God for he is great.
oooo I hear further whispers of burning lakes and fire. Sure those who are really bad for a time will be purified in the lake of fire. They will have thier sin burned and be new vessels.this is part of Gods rehabilitation plan for all. AS A NOTE thier is no such thing as forever in the greek language it was put in for doctrinal reasons and is incorrect.

Well those who have argued God isnt a torturer bless you and keep up the good work

 

[Reverend Rick]

Why do all these folks who do not believe in God, worry about where he is going to send them?

 

[Madhuri]

Why do all these folks who do not believe in God, worry about where he is going to send them?

You may notice that they are not worried about hell, but disgusted that anyone could believe that their God would actually 'send' anybody to such a place. It is a worry that somebody could happily believe this.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't lose sleep worring about what other folks believe.