The snake didn´t lie, God cheated

[kjw47]

Genesis 2: 16-17 (NIV):
And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

and another translation:

Genesis 2: 16-17 (KJV):
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So what happened?

Genesis 5:3-5 (NIV):
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.


So who lied? They ate from the tree and it had no health consequences whatsoever. They didn't die when they ate it.

Instead, their god kicked them out of the garden and set up a cherubim guard with a flaming sword to make sure they can't eat from the tree of life. So Adam and Eve went out and lived for many centuries in this story and had all sorts of kids. And now they had knowledge of good and evil rather than ignorance.

One cant possibly know what was said between God and Adam and Eve back then in its entirety, he easily could have fully explained what would take place to them. The bottom line is they did die.

 

[Iti oj]

One cant possibly know what was said between God and Adam and Eve back then in its entirety, he easily could have fully explained what would take place to them. The bottom line is they did die.

So the bible is not gods words and history book?

 

[Me Myself]

One cant possibly know what was said between God and Adam and Eve back then in its entirety, he easily could have fully explained what would take place to them. The bottom line is they did die.

Then garden god´s record keeping abilities suck. That if he was the one who "wrote" the book.

The bottom line is that the very book says that he didn´t let them come back to the garden cause he didn´t want them to live for ever while also having the same knowledge he did.

His envy will be at obvious display again in the story of Babel.

 

[McBell]

One cant possibly know what was said between God and Adam and Eve back then in its entirety, he easily could have fully explained what would take place to them. The bottom line is they did die.

:biglaugh:

 

[Heathen Hammer]

One cant possibly know what was said between God and Adam and Eve back then in its entirety, he easily could have fully explained what would take place to them. The bottom line is they did die.

No point in believing any of it then, is there?

 

[Me Myself]

No point in believing any of it then, is there?

Pretty much. You can completely distort any text by omissions. For example the genesis clearly leaves the garden god as the bad guy and the snake as the one telling the truth and wanting humans to be knowledgeable. If the bible is so misleading because of it´s omissions of information that the info it does not have could put the garden god on positive light, well, there is no point in reading any of it because of how tainted it is.

 

[kjw47]

Then garden god´s record keeping abilities suck. That if he was the one who "wrote" the book.

The bottom line is that the very book says that he didn´t let them come back to the garden cause he didn´t want them to live for ever while also having the same knowledge he did.

His envy will be at obvious display again in the story of Babel.

Mankind didnt get the same knowledge that God has,God can hang trillions of ton planets onto nothing, man cannot even hang a single blade of grass onto nothing, God made human life out of ashe,dust,water, man can make a piece of pottery. alls it accomplished was bringing bad to every human that ever existed and making them sinners. And death.

 

[Me Myself]

Mankind didnt get the same knowledge that God has,God can hang trillions of ton planets onto nothing, man cannot even hang a single blade of grass onto nothing, God made human life out of ashe,dust,water, man can make a piece of pottery. alls it accomplished was bringing bad to every human that ever existed and making them sinners. And death.

Actually, that was what God gave us. It is right there in the text. He says he gave us death cause he didn´t want us to live for ever now that we have knowledge, like him.

 

[Penumbra]

One cant possibly know what was said between God and Adam and Eve back then in its entirety, he easily could have fully explained what would take place to them. The bottom line is they did die.

You're twisting it.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Mankind didnt get the same knowledge that God has,God can hang trillions of ton planets onto nothing, man cannot even hang a single blade of grass onto nothing, God made human life out of ashe,dust,water, man can make a piece of pottery. alls it accomplished was bringing bad to every human that ever existed and making them sinners. And death.

He can do all that but not communicate the most important information in the universe clearly in a book.

Interesting, that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He can do all that but not communicate the most important information in the universe clearly in a book.

If we could stop sinning we would not die.
Because we can not stop sinning we die.
Although death is the wages or price tag that sin pays [ Romans 6 vs 23,7] we still can not resurrect oneself or another so we need someone who can do that for us.
Jesus can and he will.- Revelation 1 v 18.

What is not clear about what is recorded at Matthew [24 v 14] that before the end comes of all badness on earth that the 'good news of God's kingdom' would be proclaimed on an international scale just as it is being done today.

What is not clear about Jeremiah 6 v 14 B and 1st Thess. 5 vs 2,3 that 'they' the [powers that be] will be saying 'Peace' as a final signal, so to speak, before the start of the 'great tribulation' [ Rev. 7 v 14 ] when there will be a great crowd [multitude] that will come out of that tribulation. Come out alive right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth. We are at the threshold of the coming 'time of separation' of Matthew [ 25 vs 31,32] when that 'great crowd of humble sheep-like people' will be alive on earth when Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

If we could stop sinning we would not die.
Because we can not stop sinning we die.
Although death is the wages or price tag that sin pays [ Romans 6 vs 23,7] we still can not resurrect oneself or another so we need someone who can do that for us.
Jesus can and he will.- Revelation 1 v 18.

But, since we lack access to the Garden, and the Tree of Life... we would die anyway.
Jesus died. He was sinless; and, though his death was from the outside, he certainly aged normally, rowing up and taking an adult body at the appropriate time.... surely even he was not immortal in the fleshy way.

No?

What is not clear about what is recorded at Matthew [24 v 14] that before the end comes of all badness on earth that the 'good news of God's kingdom' would be proclaimed on an international scale just as it is being done today.

I think we both are aware that i do not adhere to the idea that this right now is the End Times [I mean, obviously; a wolf has not yet consumed the Sun ].
It's been proclaimed on an international scale for centuries.

What is not clear about Jeremiah 6 v 14 B and 1st Thess. 5 vs 2,3 that 'they' the [powers that be] will be saying 'Peace' as a final signal, so to speak, before the start of the 'great tribulation' [ Rev. 7 v 14 ] when there will be a great crowd [multitude] that will come out of that tribulation. Come out alive right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth. We are at the threshold of the coming 'time of separation' of Matthew [ 25 vs 31,32] when that 'great crowd of humble sheep-like people' will be alive on earth when Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

You are grabbing small sections, which themselves are nebulous; I am speaking of everything. It is not clear, at all. Chapters which are supposed to be anothers' version of the same story [the Gospels] are not even coherent with one another. Paul's writings are wanderings far off Jesus' theme. revelations does not even really fit.

There are 1000 variations of Christianity. How can you think it's clear?

 

[kjw47]

He can do all that but not communicate the most important information in the universe clearly in a book.

Interesting, that.

through history by the will of satan, wicked men removed Gods personal name out of the ot in nearly 6800 places, replacing it with( GOD or LORD) all capitols-- this was a major atrocity against God. Every trinity based translation, by the will of satan was altered to fit catholic council false teachings, designed to mislead mankind into breaking Gods #1 commandment on a daily basis--another major atrocity. But God hid truth from mankind so that satan couldnt twist it all( Daniel 12:4) the JW,s are fullfilling that truth now. truth has become abundant--it is being rejected for ear tickling lies.

 

[McBell]

**inflates rubber raft**

 

[Heathen Hammer]

through history by the will of satan, wicked men removed Gods personal name out of the ot in nearly 6800 places, replacing it with( GOD or LORD) all capitols-- this was a major atrocity against God. Every trinity based translation, by the will of satan was altered to fit catholic council false teachings, designed to mislead mankind into breaking Gods #1 commandment on a daily basis--another major atrocity. But God hid truth from mankind so that satan couldnt twist it all( Daniel 12:4) the JW,s are fullfilling that truth now. truth has become abundant--it is being rejected for ear tickling lies.

So, God's a horrible communicator, but it's Satan's fault?

 

[kjw47]

So, God's a horrible communicator, but it's Satan's fault?

The truth is still present even in the altered versions--mankind refuses truth for ear tickling lies. its simpler for them that way.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

The truth is still present even in the altered versions--mankind refuses truth for ear tickling lies. its simpler for them that way.

That's nonsense. Either it's communicated effectively, or it isn't.

Blame everyone but he whom is actually responsible, hm?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But, since we lack access to the Garden, and the Tree of Life... we would die anyway.
Jesus died. He was sinless; and, though his death was from the outside, he certainly aged normally, rowing up and taking an adult body at the appropriate time.... surely even he was not immortal in the fleshy way.
No?
I think we both are aware that i do not adhere to the idea that this right now is the End Times [I mean, obviously; a wolf has not yet consumed the Sun ].
It's been proclaimed on an international scale for centuries.
You are grabbing small sections, which themselves are nebulous; I am speaking of everything. It is not clear, at all. Chapters which are supposed to be anothers' version of the same story [the Gospels] are not even coherent with one another. Paul's writings are wanderings far off Jesus' theme. revelations does not even really fit.
There are 1000 variations of Christianity. How can you think it's clear?

Jesus said it would be clear by the love shown among his genuine followers
[John 13 vs 34,35 ]
It would be clear by the lack of love shown among fake followers [ Matthew chapter 7 ]

There is one 'Gospel' with four writers. Four writers make up one Gospel [singular]
What one example do you have in mind about not being coherent ?

Please notice Revelation 22 v 2 . Who will have access to the 'tree of life' ?_____
Doesn't it include earth's nations ?
God made a promise to Abraham that through his 'seed' [ meaning Jesus as Messiah ] that all nations of the earth would be blessed. Blessed with healing or curing of earth's nations.- Genesis 22 v 18; 12 v 3

Humanly perfect Adam and Eve were Not to give birth to adults but to babies that would grow to maturity as adults. Growing up, so to speak, would Not be the same as growing old due to the imperfect decaying aging process we see on earth today.
If Adam had not sinned his children [us] would have been born with a sinless nature and we would have retained perfect human health.

Interesting observation that Jesus was Not immortal in a fleshly [or physical] way.
According to Scripture you are right. It was not until God granted immortality to Jesus that Jesus became immortal. [John 5 v 26]

Jesus nor Adam were immortal. Adam was never offered immortality. Adam was offered everlasting life on earth if obedient. In other words, the immortal have life from within, whereas the mortal [ Adam and us ] are dependent on outside forces such as having to breath, eat, sleep, etc. Mortals are Not self contained. The immortal are.
Those of Revelation [5 vs 9,10; 20 v 6 ] will gain immortality in the heavens.
The majority of mankind can gain 'everlasting life' on earth as was originally offered to sinless Adam at his creation. Meaning they can live forever on earth starting with Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.

The good news of God's kingdom [Matthew 24 v 14] did not reach the far corners of earth because many people did not have the Bible in their mother tongue or language before modern technology made it possible to translate the Bible into so many different languages as now being done.

'wolf consumed the sun' ?___ Rather isn't it Jesus ridding the earth of the wicked?
-Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Psalm 92 v 7

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So, it was not eating from the knowledge tree that made human die, it was God not letting him keep eating from the tree of life.

The snake was right. God said so (in that myth at least) because he did not want the man to be like him. He says exactly that and takes away the fruit just because of that.

I mean, it would have simply been more honest to just tell the man "don´t eat that fruit because I will not let you keep living on anymore" He made it out as if it was poisonous.

Why even put the tree there then?

It´s just such a poor management o.0

Furthermore, the more sense would be that there really were more than one gods there. I mean, only one being would need to at least have a couple of personality disorders to be that incongruent.

I love the title of this thread. It reminds me of the sticker on my car that reads: "Eve Was Framed!"

The whole creation myth makes God look bad.
If we first read Isaiah 45:7 wherein God says he is the darkness and the light the evil and the good, it quickly becomes apparent that from the Garden of Eden unto Job and all throughout the Bible wherein humans are caught in the middle between God and Satan, that God is simply playing chess with himself.
And humans are his pawns.When the endgame is orchestrated by an omniscient chess master working a three dimensional board.

At least if Eve had eaten of the tree of life first, which was not forbidden, God would have marked us as sinners but Eve would have insured our immortality would preclude roasting in Hell.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I love the title of this thread. It reminds me of the sticker on my car that reads: "Eve Was Framed!"
The whole creation myth makes God look bad.
If we first read Isaiah 45:7 wherein God says he is the darkness and the light the evil and the good, it quickly becomes apparent that from the Garden of Eden unto Job and all throughout the Bible wherein humans are caught in the middle between God and Satan, that God is simply playing chess with himself.
And humans are his pawns.When the endgame is orchestrated by an omniscient chess master working a three dimensional board.
At least if Eve had eaten of the tree of life first, which was not forbidden, God would have marked us as sinners but Eve would have insured our immortality would preclude roasting in Hell.

Didn't Eve say the serpent [ Satan ] beguiled or deceived her ? [Genesis 3 v 13 ]
- 1st Timothy 2 v 14
Was Jesus roasting while he was in hell ?_____ [Acts 2 vs 27,31,32 ]
Jesus taught the dead sleep, Not roast. [John 11 vs 11-14]
Jesus was well educated in the Hebrew OT Scriptures.
The Psalms teach the dead sleep [Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4]
King Solomon taught the dead know nothing [ Ecclesiastes 9 v 5]
Daniel looked forward to being awakened from death's sleep [ Daniel 12 vs 2,13]

In Scripture 'evil' [Isaiah 45v7] is Not always synonymous with wrong doing.
God used 'evil' in the form of calamity against the forewarned wicked in Noah's day.

The Eden account does not make God look bad, but makes Satan and Adam and Eve look bad. They failed in showing honor and love to their Father and Life Giver. The God who provided earth as a beautiful paradisaic home for mankind to enjoy forever.

Satan challenges all of us. At Job [ 2 vs 4,5 ] by Satan saying 'a' man includes all of us. Satan challenges that none of us would serve God. Touch our bone and flesh [loose health] and we would curse God. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan the liar that he is and so can we.

Time has allowed for all of us to be born and think who we would like as sovereign over us. If Adam and Eve would not have had children we would simply not be here.
As with Job, God knew he could undo all the harm brought upon Job and he did.
God is going to have Jesus, during Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth, undo all the harm Satan and Adam brought upon us.
- Revelation 22 v 2