The snake didn´t lie, God cheated

[Me Myself]

Didn't Eve say the serpent [ Satan ] beguiled or deceived her ? [Genesis 3 v 13 ]

The only deceiver in that story is garden god.

God is going to have Jesus, during Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth, undo all the harm Satan and Adam brought upon us.
- Revelation 22 v 2

For a supreme being he takes a heckuvalotof time to clean up his mess :sarcastic

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Didn't Eve say the serpent [ Satan ] beguiled or deceived her ? [Genesis 3 v 13 ]
- 1st Timothy 2 v 14
Was Jesus roasting while he was in hell ?_____ [Acts 2 vs 27,31,32 ]
Jesus taught the dead sleep, Not roast. [John 11 vs 11-14]
Jesus was well educated in the Hebrew OT Scriptures.
The Psalms teach the dead sleep [Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4]
King Solomon taught the dead know nothing [ Ecclesiastes 9 v 5]
Daniel looked forward to being awakened from death's sleep [ Daniel 12 vs 2,13]

In Scripture 'evil' [Isaiah 45v7] is Not always synonymous with wrong doing.
God used 'evil' in the form of calamity against the forewarned wicked in Noah's day.

The Eden account does not make God look bad, but makes Satan and Adam and Eve look bad. They failed in showing honor and love to their Father and Life Giver. The God who provided earth as a beautiful paradisaic home for mankind to enjoy forever.

Satan challenges all of us. At Job [ 2 vs 4,5 ] by Satan saying 'a' man includes all of us. Satan challenges that none of us would serve God. Touch our bone and flesh [loose health] and we would curse God. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan the liar that he is and so can we.

Time has allowed for all of us to be born and think who we would like as sovereign over us. If Adam and Eve would not have had children we would simply not be here.
As with Job, God knew he could undo all the harm brought upon Job and he did.
God is going to have Jesus, during Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth, undo all the harm Satan and Adam brought upon us.
- Revelation 22 v 2

"God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that." Joseph Campbell

If God so loved the world...he wouldn't have made his love and grace conditional.

Isaiah 45:7(KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

God would have better proved his grace for humanity if he would have forgiven the first couple their first innocent mistake in the Garden wherein he planted the tree bearing the fruit of their damnation. Being omniscient and the creator of light, darkness, peace and evil and the doer of those things, it was his will, his plan, and part of what the Bible relates it all amounts to; predestination.

God's will, plan that predestined all of creation to unfold by his doing let Satan enter paradise and tempt the woman who had no knowledge of good or evil and thus was absent the ability to choose obedience or disobedience having the knowledge of the penalties or rewards.

And to curse the generations born after to carry the stain of sinner upon them for the sin of Adam and Eve, when the scriptures say elsewhere that the sins of the fathers will not pass unto the sons, is inconsistent with grace, omnibenevolence, and righteousness.

However, prior to all this with Adam and Eve, God banished Satan his adversary, the antithesis of his goodness, to earth where he reigns as Lord. So that humans, born sinners and thus his property at birth being in deficit of grace for being human, have to navigate their way through Satan's domain in order to find Jesus. And then be redeemed from their sinful state.

And all this only happens if someone is exposed to the "good news" that informs them of their fallen damned condition. Otherwise, having never heard the story they're saved due to their ignorance.

Now what sense is that? We're suppose to believe humans are born damned as sinners who need to be redeemed so as to find grace and salvation and be pleasing to God. But yet, if someone doesn't know about that, they're saved for their being ignorant of it.

So really the good news would then be that proselytizing does not exist. Nor do churches. Nor do missionaries. That no one in all the world is made aware of the story of the fall. So that they do not realize their damned condition. And this time those who are ignorant like unto Adam and Eve, will be saved from God because God only puts people on the razors edge between heaven and hell, if they' know the razor exists.
Indeed then ignorance would be bliss.

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?" Annie Dillard

 

[kjw47]

That's nonsense. Either it's communicated effectively, or it isn't.

Blame everyone but he whom is actually responsible, hm?

When Jesus says the Father ( Jehovah) is the only true God( John 17:1-6)--and then 33,000 trinity religions pop up--its their fault not Gods word.

 

[PolyHedral]

When Jesus says the Father ( Jehovah) is the only true God( John 17:1-6)--and then 33,000 trinity religions pop up--its their fault not Gods word.

Yet they have justification for thinking that.

 

[kjw47]

Yet they have justification for thinking that.

Gods word must always be in harmony with itself--There is tons of evidence that catholicism created a trinity god at their councils, then mistranslated Gods word after over 1000 years after the councils when they decided it was ok for regular members of the flock to read Gods written word for themselves--1000 years, generation after generation the false teachings were handed down as truth and no one had a clue otherwise.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yet they have justification for thinking that.

Gospel writer John who also wrote Revelation wrote that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God [ Rev. 3 v 14 ]

How can Jesus be the Creator and be the creation by the Creator ?
God had No beginning according to Psalm 90 v 2.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Jesus was first born in the heavens before any other creation. - Col 1 v 15
God sent his first heavenly creation to earth. Jesus did not send himself.
Just as Jesus did not resurrect himself out of hell according to Acts 2 vs 31,32; 13 v 30

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If God so loved the world...he wouldn't have made his love and grace conditional.
God would have better proved his grace for humanity if he would have forgiven the first couple their first innocent mistake in the Garden wherein he planted the tree bearing the fruit of their damnation. Being omniscient and the creator of light, darkness, peace and evil and the doer of those things, it was his will, his plan, and part of what the Bible relates it all amounts to; predestination.
God's will, plan that predestined all of creation to unfold by his doing let Satan enter paradise and tempt the woman who had no knowledge of good or evil and thus was absent the ability to choose obedience or disobedience having the knowledge of the penalties or rewards.
And to curse the generations born after to carry the stain of sinner upon them for the sin of Adam and Eve, when the scriptures say elsewhere that the sins of the fathers will not pass unto the sons, is inconsistent with grace, omnibenevolence, and righteousness.
However, prior to all this with Adam and Eve, God banished Satan his adversary, the antithesis of his goodness, to earth where he reigns as Lord. So that humans, born sinners and thus his property at birth being in deficit of grace for being human, have to navigate their way through Satan's domain in order to find Jesus. And then be redeemed from their sinful state.
And all this only happens if someone is exposed to the "good news" that informs them of their fallen damned condition. Otherwise, having never heard the story they're saved due to their ignorance.
Now what sense is that? We're suppose to believe humans are born damned as sinners who need to be redeemed so as to find grace and salvation and be pleasing to God. But yet, if someone doesn't know about that, they're saved for their being ignorant of it.
So really the good news would then be that proselytizing does not exist. Nor do churches. Nor do missionaries. That no one in all the world is made aware of the story of the fall. So that they do not realize their damned condition. And this time those who are ignorant like unto Adam and Eve, will be saved from God because God only puts people on the razors edge between heaven and hell, if they' know the razor exists.
Indeed then ignorance would be bliss.

If you were going to set up law, would you make it unconditional ?
Would you say it is right to have someone murder you or your loved ones?
If unconditional is so wonderful, why do even imperfect nations have laws?

According to Genesis [3 vs 2,3] Eve KNEW, meaning Eve had knowledge. Eve was educated that eating would bring death.

Choice is Not predestined. Adam was told 'you eat you die'. Adam had a choice. Adam was not forced to eat. How many trees on earth?____ Out of all of earth's trees there was only one tree on earth to avoid. If you had a generous neighbor and he said you could come over anytime you wanted and help yourself to all of his many fruit trees except for one tree, would you consider your neighbor as being in the wrong ?

God purposed that earth be populated with descendants of Adam and Eve [us]
-Gen 1 v 28. God did not change his purpose but time has allowed for all of us to be born and think who we would like as sovereign over us.
Father Adam, as our family head, passed down his imperfect nature down to us.
Through no fault of our own we can not stop sinning.
If we could stop sinning we would not die.
We can not resurrect oneself or another so we need someone who can do that for us.
Jesus can and he will. Some to heaven [ Rev. 20 v 6], and the majority of mankind resurrected back to life on earth during Jesus 1000-yr reign over earth. [John 3 v 13]

'Death' [No post-mortem penalties] is the wage or price tag that sin pays.
-Romans 6 vs 23,7
So, since the majority of mankind did not have the opportunity to learn about Jesus, they will have that opportunity when resurrected on earth during Jesus millennial reign over earth, or earthly subjects of God's kingdom in the rulership of Christ Jesus.
-Psalm 72 vs 8, 12-14

The 'times of ignorance' is now past. - Acts 17 vs 30,31
God desires all to repent.- 2nd Peter 3 v 9 B.
That is why the 'good news of God's kingdom' is now being proclaimed on an international scale today. - Matthew 24 v 14; Acts 1 v 8
Please notice verse 14 says as a witness 'to the nations' . Not every individual.
New people are being born every day. That was true in Noah's day. God knew the point when the people became beyond reform or beyond repentance.
Modern technology had even made possible rapid Bible translation into many foreign languages possible so that earth's people world wide have Scripture in their mother tongue or native language.

'Razor's edge between heaven and hell' is a religious-myth hell teaching often taught as Scripture. Just as God resurrected Jesus out of hell [ see Acts 2 vs 31,32], some others like Jesus are resurrected to heaven [ Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10] out of hell.
That is because the temporary biblical hell [sheol] is just the common grave of mankind. The common grave where the dead sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrected either to heaven for some, or resurrected back to life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth.

The English words 'hell and hellfire' are from the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek word hades [haides] and Gehenna. Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were 'destroyed' Not kept burning forever, so Gehenna is a fitting symbol or way of saying: destruction Not eternal burning.
The wicked are to be destroyed forever. -Psalm 92 v 7; 2nd Thess 1 v 9

Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like state [John 11 vs 11-14]
That teaching is in harmony with the Hebrew OT Scriptures.
[Ecclesiastes 9 vs 5,10; Psalms: 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Daniel 12 vs 2,13]

So, during Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth Satan will be abyssed.
According to Rev. [20 vs 13,14] everyone in the temporary Bible's hell [grave] will be 'delivered up' meaning resurrected out of hell which is just the temporary common grave where the dead sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrected out of hell. Then please notice that it is 'emptied-out hell' that is cast vacant into a symbolic 'second death'.
'Second death' is the condition that Satan will end up in according to Rev. 21 v 8.
Jesus destroys Satan [ Hebrews 2 v 14 B ], so 'second death' if a fitting symbol for destruction or being destroyed forever.-Psalm 92 v 7

 

[look3467]

All cylinders firing except for the one which, is to say, points are made all around the tree of knowledge.......of good and evil.

The key word there is "knowledge". How on earth, literally, could supposedly Adam and Eve exercise any judgment between the two, unless, first they should acquire knowledge of them?

If they had knowledge of, good and evil, would that not make them as like "one of us"?

There was no trick, no evil intended, or mistake by God!

Without our being as like one of them "gods", we would always be as babies, innocent and without responsibility for ourselves.

Be not deceived by our own wisdom the wisdom of God.

We are here because of Him and not the other way around.

A Proverb: Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Suppose He is telling us something?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Me Myself]

The garden god said he was "punishing" us or didn`t he? so I don`t buy the "oh I did it on purpose, so good it happened!"

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Of all those in the Garden, God, Satan, Adam and Eve, who was wise among them? God and Satan.

The tree that was in the midst of the garden. That's an interesting phrase in the Genesis passage.

Genesis 3:1-6
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


Only after eating of the fruit would the eyes be open and Eve and Adam become wise. I.E. knowing good and evil. Not before. And yet it was all according to God's plan. He who knew. And that is why after Adam and Eve ate of the fruit he said that the first couple had become like unto God. With the knowledge God has of both good and evil. (Isaiah 45:7)

[SIZE=+1]John 1:1([SIZE=+1]YL[SIZE=+1]T)[/SIZE][/SIZE] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. [/SIZE]

Cursing humans as sinners for that which was predestined by God is like condemning a baby for grabbing hold of something forbidden them, expecting they comprehend the word, "No!" And in punishing that newborn then saying, it's their responsibility because prior to touching that which was forbidden, and would not have been there to be touched had the father not put it in their play area, they were told not to touch it. So it's their fault. Their choice to now be condemned for touching what they were told not to.

 

[Me Myself]

Dont forget that the baby should be punished for all her life and also all the generations that come from her must be punished too.

 

[look3467]

Cursing humans as sinners for that which was predestined by God is like condemning a baby for grabbing hold of something forbidden them, expecting they comprehend the word, "No!" And in punishing that newborn then saying, it's their responsibility because prior to touching that which was forbidden, and would not have been there to be touched had the father not put it in their play area, they were told not to touch it. So it's their fault. Their choice to now be condemned for touching what they were told not to.>>>somethingNiftyhere

Need God offer a sacrifice were it their fault? If it were our fault for gaining knowledge, than it would also mean we'd have the power to save ourselves as well.

Ask the question: why did Jesus have to be tortured, hung on a stake and to booth, be also rejected by the Father if it was all our fault?

The flaw in creation was a flaw resultant of creation itself and not a fault of God .

God knowing this made arrangements to redeem His creation.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The story of the garden is a picture of creations resultant and the only story< I believe, giving the beginnings of mankind of which none other religious belief can.

Blessings, AJ

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Dont forget that the baby should be punished for all her life and also all the generations that come from her must be punished too.

Oh, I didn't forget.
And remember too that unless she believes savage torture and murder on a cross is proof of love, and asks to be redeemed from what god appointed the first couple to suffer and their offspring too and for eternity, baby will remain cursed and once they die they'll burn forever in a lake of fire. Because Baby chose to go to Hell.

 

[look3467]

Dont forget that the baby should be punished for all her life and also all the generations that come from her must be punished too.

Anybody born in the flesh is condemned to die, save God's redemptive gift.

Redemption is for all mankind. Some know it, some don't. Those who do have a better grasp of this life's blessings, while those who don't, suffer loss of blessings.

That is not to say that there is no suffering for those who do know, but their sufferings turn to joy.

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Blessings, AJ

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

(Sic)"The flaw in creation was a flaw resultant of creation itself..."

Then that would mean God is not perfect having manifest a flawed creation that would then result in the fall of humanity because God is omniscient. So Omniscient God manifesting an imperfect creation is not then a divine perfect creator.

And yet the Bible says God is sovereign and all things happen according to his will. All things. Even that which is evil. (Isaiah 45:7)

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[look3467]

Then that would mean God is not perfect having manifest a flawed creation that would then result in the fall of humanity because God is omniscient. So Omniscient God manifesting an imperfect creation is not then a divine perfect creator.

And yet the Bible says God is sovereign and all things happen according to his will. All things. Even that which is evil. (Isaiah 45:7)

You don't seem to understand the process. No where could God create a creature as like unto Himself without giving the creature the ability to chose without consequence.

What consequence? There can only be one God! Any other gods cannot co-exist independently from Him, therefore, are condemned to die.

Unless, He makes provisions for their redemption......which He did.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Blessings, AJ

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

You appear to be the one who doesn't seem to understand the scriptures.
God forbid eating of the tree of Gnosis/knowledge, which he planted within the garden, because eating of it's fruit would then make the Adam and Eve like unto God. i.e. Having the knowledge of good and evil. Gnosis. Awareness. Their eyes would be opened and they would see the world. They would die to their innocence and comprehend duality. Good and Evil.

God planted the tree. He forbid the tree to be touched or it's fruit eaten. And then the Devil that was made lord of this earth after God threw him out of Heaven, entered into Paradise in the midst of an omnipresent creator. Which precluded the garden being paradise because the lord of the earth, the prince of lies, assumed the guise of a serpent (kundalini imagery) and entered in. And spoke to Eve as that adversary, that antithesis of God and God's word. But that which is also God, per Isaiah 45:7.
And none of this would have transpired had the creator of all things eternally not planted that forbidden tree within his own garden. When it would make Adam and Eve like unto him. Had he wanted them to know better than to eat of it he should have imbued them with intellect. Knowledge in the first place, so that they could make an informed choice to obey or not. But he didn't. That trait was acquired after they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

God being omniscient, with a plan and sovereign, created the fall to happen.
Why didn't he kill Satan after he led the rebellion in the paradise of Heaven? Being omniscient as the creator of Lucifer he made it all come to pass being sovereign. He let Satan live after leading a war in heaven but he cursed humanity for eternity for the one ignorant mistake the first newborn couple made in his created paradise garden.
And then humanity had to struggle to overcome evil in the world wherein Satan is by God's appointment lord of Earth.
As he was when God put Adam and Eve here in the first place.

But sin is all our fault?

You don't seem to understand the process. No where could God create a creature as like unto Himself without giving the creature the ability to chose without consequence.

What consequence? There can only be one God! Any other gods cannot co-exist independently from Him, therefore, are condemned to die.

Unless, He makes provisions for their redemption......which He did.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

You suppose angry mankind took out their anger for their flawed condition on God's Christ?

Is it not what happened in the story of the vineyard?

The vineyard is a picture of the earth, the husbandman is the picture of the nation of Israel and the others are the Gentiles.
The first and second servants are a picture of the prophets, and finally, the son, a picture of Jesus of whom they put to death.

The picture story goes that God's flawed creation,(mankind) was given responsibility to the nation of Israel to execute His strict and burdensome laws, knowing full well that they were a stubborn people who would decisively care out His laws to the letter.

They killed the prophets (servants in the story) and finally, the Son is also killed.
When the story says, God destroyed them all, merely means God took them off first place, meaning in direct relation to Him, and were given notice that they could only come through Him by Jesus.In other words, destruction by cutting them off spiritually and requiring them to come through Jesus for redemption.

Thus, the "others" in the story are the Gentiles gaining redemption also via Jesus as well, to the point where there is now Jew nor Greek, bond or free, for all are one in Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

You appear to be the one who doesn't seem to understand the scriptures.
God forbid eating of the tree of Gnosis/knowledge, which he planted within the garden, because eating of it's fruit would then make the Adam and Eve like unto God. i.e. Having the knowledge of good and evil. Gnosis. Awareness. Their eyes would be opened and they would see the world. They would die to their innocence and comprehend duality. Good and Evil.>>>somethingNiftyhere

You mean for real, eating of real fruit off a real tree? Or is it not symbolic of an action which denotes gaining knowledge via creation itself?

A baby is born, innocent as Adam and Eve before the fall. But when that baby grows to be a child, knowledge of good and evil at some point determines the fall, as if eating of the fruit of the tree. (Some call it the age of accountability)

There is no child ever, exceptions: severely mentally flawed and Jesus, the Son of God
who were not subject to the death penalty.

And then the Devil that was made lord of this earth after God threw him out of Heaven, entered into Paradise in the midst of an omnipresent creator.

The devil? You mentioned "lord of this earth? Well, the flesh is of this earth, and vanity is what we were subjected to. So, in vanity is our victory over the flesh in Jesus.
The devil is all that the flesh would like as creatures of the earth.

If it were not so, why then are we constantly making decisions against the spirit in favor of the flesh?

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

So like Ross Pero said "the devil is in the details". Do we know who it is that would abuse our bodies, our minds, and if it were possible, our souls? The world perhaps, and all of its vanity?

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Oh, I didn't forget.
And remember too that unless she believes savage torture and murder on a cross is proof of love, and asks to be redeemed from what god appointed the first couple to suffer and their offspring too and for eternity, baby will remain cursed and once they die they'll burn forever in a lake of fire. Because Baby chose to go to Hell.

Where does the Bible teach suffer for eternity?_______
According to Revelation [20 vs 13,14] the definition of the lake of fire is: 'second death'.
Satan ends up in 'second death' according to Rev. 21 v 8.
Jesus 'destroys' Satan according to Hebrews 2 v 14 B.
So, 'second death' is a fitting term for destruction and Not burn forever.
Only the wicked end up in the destruction of second death.-Psalm 92 v 7

Please notice there are No post-mortem penalties mentioned at Romans 6 vs 23,7.
'Death' is the price tag that sin pays. Just as a Judge can pardon a person so the crime [sin] charges do not stick, death frees or acquits us from our imperfect sinnings.
We can not resurrect oneself or another from death's sleep so we need someone who can do that for us. According to Scripture Jesus can and he will.
[John 11 vs 11-14; Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Dan. 12 vs 2 ,13; Ecc. 9v5]

The Bible's hell is temporary. It it the 'non-biblical religious-myth hell' that is taught as permanent and pain filled. Permanent hell is taught as Scripture by false clergy as if it is Scripture. Jesus has the keys to unlock hell according to Rev. 1 v 18.
According to Scripture God resurrected Jesus out of hell [sheol] which is just mankind's temporary common grave where the unconscious dead sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrected. Resurrected either to heaven for some [Rev 20 v 6] or resurrected back to life on earth during Jesus' 1000-year reign over earth when enemy death will be no more.- Rev. 21 vs 4,5; 1st Cor. 15 v 26