The snake didn´t lie, God cheated

[McBell]

What's sad is the obsession you have with me.

So, got anything at all to say about the thread topic?

 

[Super Universe]

So, got anything at all to say about the thread topic?

Do you?

Seems you missed post #2 to this topic.

 

[Me Myself]

But God put the tree there to begin with. And God is all knowing so He knew that humans would eat the fruit but wanted them to assume all responsibility for ending their childish innocence on their own.

In any case, the serpent did not lie, and it was God who forced humans to death by forbidding them the tree of life.

Specifically said he didn't want them to live on because now they knew good from wrong just like he did. That is exactly what the serpent said. In the story, God is clearly restricting human growth, and doing so out of fear. Like in Babel.

 

[Super Universe]

In any case, the serpent did not lie, and it was God who forced humans to death by forbidding them the tree of life.

Specifically said he didn't want them to live on because now they knew good from wrong just like he did. That is exactly what the serpent said. In the story, God is clearly restricting human growth, and doing so out of fear. Like in Babel.

Oh, so the serpent is the one telling the truth and God is the liar?

Then the serpent is your god.

Good luck with all of that.

 

[McBell]

Do you?

Seems you missed post #2 to this topic.

Yes I did.
Thank you for pointing it out.

 

[tempter]

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So, it was not eating from the knowledge tree that made human die, it was God not letting him keep eating from the tree of life.

The snake was right. God said so (in that myth at least) because he did not want the man to be like him. He says exactly that and takes away the fruit just because of that.

I mean, it would have simply been more honest to just tell the man "don´t eat that fruit because I will not let you keep living on anymore" He made it out as if it was poisonous.

Why even put the tree there then?

It´s just such a poor management o.0

Furthermore, the more sense would be that there really were more than one gods there. I mean, only one being would need to at least have a couple of personality disorders to be that incongruent.

The biblical god (especially in the OT) is a jealous and selfish deity; one that shouldn't be worshiped based on these principles alone.

 

[Me Myself]

Oh, so the serpent is the one telling the truth and God is the liar?

Then the serpent is your god.

Good luck with all of that.

A lot of people tell the truth and I don´t deify them particularly because of it

Shiva is my God.

In any case, according to that tale, he snake was honest about the "god" of the garden

 

[Super Universe]

A lot of people tell the truth and I don´t deify them particularly because of it

Shiva is my God.

In any case, according to that tale, he snake was honest about the "god" of the garden

Shiva is your God? How many names for water? Which one is the most accurate?

The snake was honest? And so was God.

 

[Me Myself]

The snake was honest? And so was God.

God was honest in this sense:

Brian:"If you go to x place, you will have your car crashed"

You: "oh drats!"

Snake: "Brian only said so because he is envious of you and doesn´t want you to know x place. It is not true that you will crash"

Brian: "I noticed you went to x place. You´ll notice that I took your car out of your garage and crashed it. Told you"

Garden god made it sound as if eating the fruit would be what would kill them, not something HE decided to do BECAUSE they ate the fruit and he DIDNT WANT THEM to be both knowledgeable and without death.

So the snake was right, god was being pitiful.

 

[Penumbra]

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So, it was not eating from the knowledge tree that made human die, it was God not letting him keep eating from the tree of life.

The snake was right. God said so (in that myth at least) because he did not want the man to be like him. He says exactly that and takes away the fruit just because of that.

I mean, it would have simply been more honest to just tell the man "don´t eat that fruit because I will not let you keep living on anymore" He made it out as if it was poisonous.

Why even put the tree there then?

It´s just such a poor management o.0

Furthermore, the more sense would be that there really were more than one gods there. I mean, only one being would need to at least have a couple of personality disorders to be that incongruent.

Ever since I was a kid the serpent always struck me as the more rational voice in the myth of the apple. The deity in the story prohibits the collection of knowledge, while the serpent urges them to seek it. Any negative outcomes for the human characters were from the god, not from the knowledge itself.

Besides it generally wasn't taken too literally for a while. You don't see original sin and that sort of thing throughout the Hebrew Bible. That topic comes up centuries later in Christian texts.

I had a Jewish religion professor once that believed that the story of humans eating the apple was a positive one.

 

[kjw47]

Ever since I was a kid the serpent always struck me as the more rational voice in the myth of the apple. The deity in the story prohibits the collection of knowledge, while the serpent urges them to seek it. Any negative outcomes for the human characters were from the god, not from the knowledge itself.

Besides it generally wasn't taken too literally for a while. You don't see original sin and that sort of thing throughout the Hebrew Bible. That topic comes up centuries later in Christian texts.

I had a Jewish religion professor once that believed that the story of humans eating the apple was a positive one.

The serpent told Eve that she positively would not die--that was the lie.

 

[Penumbra]

The serpent told Eve that she positively would not die--that was the lie.

She only died because God stopped letting her eat from the tree of life. She didn't die as a consequence of the eating from the tree of knowledge.

The phrasing in the NIV is:
“You will not certainly die,”

And KJV:
"Ye shall not surely die:"

He's not saying that you're certainly not going to die. He's saying that it's untrue that they will certainly die. There is no certainty in one action (eating) leading to the other (death). The tree itself imposes no direct harm; any harm comes from god in this case not allowing them to eat from the other tree anymore. That's god's choice in this story.

 

[Orias]

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So, it was not eating from the knowledge tree that made human die, it was God not letting him keep eating from the tree of life.

The snake was right. God said so (in that myth at least) because he did not want the man to be like him. He says exactly that and takes away the fruit just because of that.

I mean, it would have simply been more honest to just tell the man "don´t eat that fruit because I will not let you keep living on anymore" He made it out as if it was poisonous.

Why even put the tree there then?

It´s just such a poor management o.0

Furthermore, the more sense would be that there really were more than one gods there. I mean, only one being would need to at least have a couple of personality disorders to be that incongruent.

He is an old man, fearful of his spawn that is very much like him and turning to prime age!

:bat:

 

[kjw47]

She only died because God stopped letting her eat from the tree of life. She didn't die as a consequence of the eating from the tree of knowledge.

The phrasing in the NIV is:
“You will not certainly die,”

And KJV:
"Ye shall not surely die:"

He's not saying that you're certainly not going to die. He's saying that it's untrue that they will certainly die. There is no certainty in one action (eating) leading to the other (death). The tree itself imposes no direct harm; any harm comes from god in this case not allowing them to eat from the other tree anymore. That's god's choice in this story.

The fact is they died and satan told her they would not die. no need to add things not said.God warned them in advance just as he warned the earth of the events to come to this earth shortly.

 

[Penumbra]

The fact is they died and satan told her they would not die. no need to add things not said

He said they would not certainly die.

There was no certainty in their death; the cause had no relation to the effects. The god made the choice to cut off their life source.

 

[kjw47]

He said they would not certainly die.

There was no certainty in their death; the cause had no relation to the effects. The god made the choice to cut off their life source.

He warned them in advance of the consequences of eating of that tree of knowledge--and satan did lie to Eve about not dying--you are just twisting it.

 

[Iti oj]

dear god. the apple does not fall far from the tree. the tree that you planted i might add

 

[Reptillian]

The Serpent is a kind of Christian Prometheus. The gods of Olympus feared the fates, they feared man, and they feared their kin...they were weak; poor reflections of man's own primitive failings, flaws, and fears.

 

[Penumbra]

He warned them in advance of the consequences of eating of that tree of knowledge--and satan did lie to Eve about not dying--you are just twisting it.

Genesis 2: 16-17 (NIV):
And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

and another translation:

Genesis 2: 16-17 (KJV):
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So what happened?

Genesis 5:3-5 (NIV):
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.


So who lied? They ate from the tree and it had no health consequences whatsoever. They didn't die when they ate it.

Instead, their god kicked them out of the garden and set up a cherubim guard with a flaming sword to make sure they can't eat from the tree of life. So Adam and Eve went out and lived for many centuries in this story and had all sorts of kids. And now they had knowledge of good and evil rather than ignorance.

 

[Me Myself]

He warned them in advance of the consequences of eating of that tree of knowledge--and satan did lie to Eve about not dying--you are just twisting it.

If he did, then why did God forbid them to eat from the tree of life again?

If I tell you eating an apple will hurt you, snake tells you it won´t, you eat the apple and you feel fine, but when I notice you did I punch you (so that you are hurt) , who was the cheater: me or the snake?