The snake didn´t lie, God cheated

[URAVIP2ME]

Then that would mean God is not perfect having manifest a flawed creation that would then result in the fall of humanity because God is omniscient. So Omniscient God manifesting an imperfect creation is not then a divine perfect creator.
And yet the Bible says God is sovereign and all things happen according to his will. All things. Even that which is evil. (Isaiah 45:7)

Chooses not to know. Because we are created as free moral agents, God choose not to know how we will use our free-will choices. Adam was not forced to eat/ disobey God.
Free will is not a flaw but a freedom to choose to keep God's law or not.
Breaking God's law resulted in Adam's death. Keeping the law would have resulted in Adam living forever on a beautiful paradisaic earth. Both Satan and Adam failed in love and respect for their Creator and Life Giver.

In Scripture 'evil' is Not always synonymous with wrong doing.
God used evil in the form of calamity against the wicked in Noah's day to protect the righteous. Jesus will use the words from his mouth as a calamity against the wicked before the start of his 1000-year reign on earth.- Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Psalm 92 v 7

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Where does the Bible teach suffer for eternity?_______
...

Matthew 10:28

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.


Matthew 25:41-46


“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Jude 1:7


Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
2 Thessalonians 1:9

They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Chooses not to know...

Choose not to know?

Does a baby choose not to know not to put her fingers in a light socket?

 

[PolyHedral]

Because we are created as free moral agents, God choose not to know how we will use our free-will choices.

How can one choose to not know something, when one must surely know what one is choosing not to know? Otherwise, how can one choose?

(And thus exemplifies the doublethink required to support free will in the face of an superhumanly intelligent entity.)

 

[look3467]

Free moral agents? as in....as gods?And if as gods, did the creator not know the consequences of it?
Does the following verse not confirm it: Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Interpretation
"become as one of us" =free moral agent
"to know good and evil" ability to make judgments between good and evil
"and now" As expected, the agent is now free to choose as we
"lest he put forth his hand" meaning, no life experience; tree of life deferred.
"live forever" meaning, God Himself would redeem and not the agent himself.

God is sovereign over all, and mankind of itself (created) has no power to redeem itself other than to choose good from evil.

The ultimate power of redemption lies with God. Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

blessings, AJ

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

It was only after eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge/Gnosis that God then said; behold the man has become as one of us.

Free moral agents? as in....as gods?And if as gods, did the creator not know the consequences of it?
Does the following verse not confirm it: Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Interpretation
"become as one of us" =free moral agent
"to know good and evil" ability to make judgments between good and evil
"and now" As expected, the agent is now free to choose as we
"lest he put forth his hand" meaning, no life experience; tree of life deferred.
"live forever" meaning, God Himself would redeem and not the agent himself.

God is sovereign over all, and mankind of itself (created) has no power to redeem itself other than to choose good from evil.

The ultimate power of redemption lies with God. Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

It was only after eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge/Gnosis that God then said; behold the man has become as one of us.>>>somethingNiftyhere

A child can understand that story. But as an adult we should see the real picture of which only through God's opening up our spiritual eyes can we see clearly.

Blessings, AJ

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

God created humans so that they would be devoid of cerebral intellect and spiritual gnosis. And once they acquired a comprehension like unto God's they were condemned for their disobedience, having acquired knowledge/gnosis and thus becoming like unto God.

So if God condemned humans for achieving knowledge, God certainly wasn't going to open spiritual eyes so that awareness could be had through any other avenue. Because that would then make humans like unto God as well. And we know where that got us to begin with.

 

[Me Myself]

You don't seem to understand the process. No where could God create a creature as like unto Himself without giving the creature the ability to chose without consequence.

What consequence? There can only be one God! Any other gods cannot co-exist independently from Him, therefore, are condemned to die.

Unless, He makes provisions for their redemption......which He did.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Blessings, AJ

God not omnipotent then.

 

[look3467]

God created humans so that they would be devoid of cerebral intellect and spiritual gnosis. And once they acquired a comprehension like unto God's they were condemned for their disobedience, having acquired knowledge/gnosis and thus becoming like unto God.>>>somethingNiftyhere

Still not being able to comprehend the process.
A consequence for creating a living soul in the likeness and image of God was death.
Two supreme entities cannot co-exist without the one suffering loss.

That is simply the way it is.

God, full well knowing the consequences choose to go ahead and create, and with the same power, also redeem His creation from the death penalty.

Could a child understand that in that form? No.

Yet, a child could relate to a tree and a command to not touch the fruit of that tree, because there would be consequences.

Mankind was not void of any spiritual potential, or consciousnesses why? The answer?

Eve is representative of mother earth, fleshly and subject to the lust of the eyes.

While Adam is the spiritual breath of God married to mother earth in the creation of a living soul.

In the story of Adam and Eve you read Eve, being fleshly lusts after the fruit of the tree, while Adam is not.

No reflection on the female gender, for they are both called Adam.

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

It is neither mankind's fault nor God's fault, but a consequence, a resultant of the creative process.
Have you noticed how mankind seems to blame God for all things not pleasant?

A great blessing is to be alive in the flesh, because were it not for the flesh, one might never be!

Blessings, AJ

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Still not being able to comprehend the process...

I understand that and respect your honesty.I don't know how else to get my point across to you in a way that you will be able to comprehend. So we'll just have to leave it where it is.

 

[Me Myself]

Still not being able to comprehend the process.
A consequence for creating a living soul in the likeness and image of God was death.
Two supreme entities cannot co-exist without the one suffering loss.

That is simply the way it is.

God cannot change this?

So God is not omnipotent?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

When Jesus says the Father ( Jehovah) is the only true God( John 17:1-6)--and then 33,000 trinity religions pop up--its their fault not Gods word.

Then he did not communicate effectively; his audience did not understand.

My statement remains. It's still God's fault.

 

[kjw47]

Then he did not communicate effectively; his audience did not understand.

My statement remains. It's still God's fault.

It was satans will through catholicism that Gods written word was altered-- but as Daniel 12:4 clearly shows--truths would be hidden until the last days and then become abundant--they have--the world is rejecting truth for the lies that have been handed down from generation to generation for the last 1750 years or so. Dont be mistaken, the world knows it chooses the wrong path, sin is pleasure.--it is their own fault not Gods. They failed to put reality on a set of scales--- 70-90 years of living for now--- or trillions x trillions x trillions x trillions,etc of never ending years of eternal life for living to do Gods will now. Jesus said one must disown themselves( in this lifetime) to be a follower of his( Matt 16:24).

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It was satans will

Satan's will can't overcome God's

through catholicism that Gods written word was altered

Wow

-- but as Daniel 12:4 clearly shows--truths would be hidden until the last days and then become abundant--

Maybe Satan altered Daniel too

But all this doesn't matter: it's God's bad communication skill, as I have shown

 

[Me Myself]

It was satans will through catholicism that Gods written word was altered--

I assume God was helpless about Satan´s will then.

 

[kjw47]

I assume God was helpless about Satan´s will then.

No God is not helpless--the truth still remains in Jesus's teachings--The trinity religions do not listen to Jesus. But truths were hidden until the last days for this reason--- 1) satan couldnt totally twist it all into obscurity--2) up until the last days--all who have died have paid the wages of sin in full and have the ressurection hope into Gods kingdom on earth after Harmageddon--they will be given the opportunity to learn and apply truths about God and his will without satan influence for 1000 years, but then he will be loosed for a little while and some follow him. Into the lake of fire( second death) but for the ones who live to see the arrival of Harmageddon--the majority are rejecting the truth now. And it does not look to good for them.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Essentially the pathology is, give God credit for everything good and try and find some convoluted way to not blame anything bad on him; look for a scapegoat further down the chain, who somehow overcame God's plan.

Similar thinking blames the victim for their own rape, or spousal abuse.

 

[HeartFire]

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Satan is the voice of opposition/temptation. Deception is the only power he truly has. Why would God cast this tempter to a newly created earth, the home of Adam and Eve, unless Adam and Eve who are referenced as elohiym [angels/gods] in the book of "Psalms" were likewise cast from heaven with him? It makes little sense that God would send Satan and his angels to screw up his newly created paradise. It makes more sense that Adam and Eve were the fallen angels and that the serpent was Satan, all of whom were cast from heaven to the earth.

My guess is that God being merciful, gave them a chance to redeem their rebellion. God wiped the slate clean and gave them a world of their own as material creatures. They could maintain this paradise and live forever by obeying God [tree of life] or they could usher evil into the world by disobeying God [tree of the knowledge of good and evil] and create hell on earth. They were given a choice. They could choose life or they could choose death [destruction]. They chose unwisely.

I think the tree of life was preserved, guarded, and kept for them ... not necessarily from them. Even so, the wages of sin are death, so no matter what they did thereafter, they were going to die physically. Their spiritual selves would live on I think. Both God and the serpent were honest, just not completely. A & E came to know the difference between good and evil via life experience. They became like God in that they experienced the effects of evil. They likewise died, just not immediately.

 

[look3467]

Could we say, for the sake of discussion, that "to deceive the whole world" can be looked at in two distinct ways?
Let's take the most popular view first.
The view that Satan deceived the whole world place this view as negative.
Can any of you place the world deceived in the positive?
Because if you can, you will see a whole different side Gods works.
Blessings, AJ