Are you suggesting someone go to a university then pray for a miracle? I can't imagine how this might work. I am over 40 years old and I claim one certain miracle (which has no evidence outside a radical change in behavior), and 3 possible which were unpredictable. You pay for Penn and Teller minus the tiger to follow me around and we will see what happens.
I have actually met them once and I think they would probably be interested.
By the way, Siegfried and Roy are the tiger guys. Penn and Teller are illusionists. I get the feeling the kind of fancy themselves as modern day Harry Houdinis, debunking magical and supernatural claims and such.
I lost the context here and am short on time.
You were asking me if I didn’t believe the chronology of the Pam Reynolds case. I do and used it to show that the vast majority of the things she witnessed in the operating room occurred before her brain was emptied of blood.
That is even lower than the percentage I gave. It is also very easily diagnosed. It also does not explain the specific events I described. It also does not even apply to some of the events I mentioned. I think only one was a surgery and awareness is not even on the table if you have no blood in your brain.
We’re talking about the Pam Reynolds case still, right? Somewhere between 20,000-40,000 people in the US have experienced anesthesia awareness. That’s quite a few people. It easily applies to the Pam Reynolds case - I don’t see why it doesn’t, as her brain was not drained of blood until after the events she recollected had occurred in the operating room, as I pointed out earlier. One of the doctors researching the incident (Dr. Woerle, I believe) has suggested it as an obvious explanation.
I have asked several times if you want to get into this one deeper but I can only do one at a time. I consider my claims valid until we investigate further.
I believe I’ve said several times that you should investigate it further. As I said, I looked over the claims and the chronology of the incident and noticed that her recollection of events occurred before her brain was drained. As noted, the surgery was several hours long with her brain being drained only a small portion of that time (brains are usually not drained longer than 1 hour because that’s the point at which brain tissue starts to degrade).
So far I am going on memory. I know of another one that was similar I may be mixing up but I am reluctant to think that is the case. I will get into depth on any one you choose.
I think you may be mixing it up with another case because I haven’t come across anything indicating events happening in other rooms of the hospital (of course, I may have just missed it or something).
I don't think I did. I think this discussion was about the mind being more than the brain.
That is what the discussion is about. You did seem to disregard the obvious explanation of anesthesia awareness, or so I thought.
I know nuclear fusion exists but it is not a good explanation for why water is wet. If you want to concentrate on Pam's story we can but only have time for what I remember if all of the examples I gave are still on the table.
I’m sorry, what?
This seems to be the best contention you have and we can see if we can confirm or deny it if you want. I am really pressed for time these days. I have to make sure what I spend time digging into will be meaningful. I think I have mentioned my job is making scientific instruments function and that leaves little time for surfing. I think 12 of 13 instruments sent us failed miserably. One was so bad we had to risk a law suite a fire the subcontractor.
Sounds like a tedious job you have there.
I forgot the context here. I think since anesthesia awareness was less than 1% I thought you had at best 1% chance of being right. Thinking on that now it appears to be flawed logic on my part.
I’m not sure what you were saying anyway.
No, you have a very rare event you are assuming applies here. I am not here assuming a specific anything except grounds for considering the mind greater than the brain. I do not think there was a theological goal here though theological factors juts happen to be included in their recounting of events.
We have a documented event (anesthesia awareness) that we know occurs in 20,000-40,000 people undergoing surgery.
You used this case as a possible example of minds being able to exist absent brains. You’re coming from a perspective that allows supernatural explanations for various events, aren’t you?
I can't confidently comment on specific details from memory. As I said we can concentrate on the details of this one example exclusively if you want and get some clarity. I don't think you are intentionally doing this here but this reminds me of a tactic I often see. I give 6, 12, or 50 claims and draw a general conclusions. My counterpart comes up with a possible explanation for one then dismisses them all by association.
Then when you get a chance, maybe look it up. I did a fair amount of research on this case, after you had presented it as an example of minds possibly existing apart from brains. Let’s just focus on one case at a time here, so that we can delve into the details. Then we can move onto the next example you provided, if you’d like. I think discussing them all at once might end up being too confusing.
That sounds like what I certainly should do. I have not paid attention to NDE type claims in years and my memory sucks. I suggest we suspend all my other examples and dig into the Reynolds issue exclusively. Maybe you are already doing so but I want to confirm it before I invest time trying to get to the facts if it will not make any difference to you. If you agree I will begin to investigate.
Sounds good to me. I’m a huge nerd so I actually made some notes. 
