The "something can't come from nothing" argument

[idav]

If substance begets spirit....all of life is a mystery and terminal....the grave awaits.
If Spirit First...then all of Man is possible life after death....judgment awaits.

You give the other possibility but choose to see mystery. Spirit isnt nothing it counts as substance. It exists doesnt it?

 

[metis]

Here Dr Kuku, is quoting Woody Allen on enternity.

"Eternity is really long, especially near the end."
Woody Allen

LOL, and thanks for that reminder.

 

[Thief]

I have one of Kaku's books and have caught him on a fair number of science programs, and I quite positive that you don't understand what he actually says. BTW, you can't add infinity onto infinity because just one "infinity" never ends.

Singularity doesn't in any way discount M-Theory or String-Theory, or the possibility of both there being a multiverse and/or possibly parallel universes, all of which Kaku states are hypothetically possible.

Also, this doesn't make sense, so maybe you can try and clarify: "As soon as a secondary is allowed....infinity is simultaneous." What are you trying to say here?

BTW, Kaku is not a theist (he's agnostic), so I think you'rte barking up the wrong tree.


Edited: on the 2nd line of my response, I accidentally wrote the word "can" whereas it should have been "can't".

Don't know what Dr. Kaku believes in terms of God.

But the demo He was making was unmistakable.
The equation on display presented a sum...infinity plus infinity plus infinity...etc.

He then did say infinity is a problem.

 

[Thief]

You give the other possibility but choose to see mystery. Spirit isnt nothing it counts as substance. It exists doesnt it?

Man as a creation is not mysterious.
I have a good idea about the 'why we are here' part.

But take away the Creator and the mystery of life is immediate.
Without the Creator the existence of Man has no Cause...or purpose.

 

[metis]

Don't know what Dr. Kaku believes in terms of God.

But the demo He was making was unmistakable.
The equation on display presented a sum...infinity plus infinity plus infinity...etc.

He then did say infinity is a problem.

It's only a problem in that there's no real evidence for it, but it certainly is not a hypothetical problem, especially since most cosmologists drift in that direction according to research cosmologist Leonard Susskind.

Secondly, you cannot logical add one infinity on top of another as really quite illogical.

 

[Bunyip]

Man as a creation is not mysterious.
I have a good idea about the 'why we are here' part.

But take away the Creator and the mystery of life is immediate.
Without the Creator the existence of Man has no Cause...or purpose.

So according to you, god must be purposeless because he has no cause right?

 

[Ouroboros]

So according to you, god must be purposeless because he has no cause right?

And God doesn't know why he exists either.

 

[Skwim]

But take away the Creator and the mystery of life is immediate.
Without the Creator the existence of Man has no Cause...or purpose.

So, because this satisfies one's need for explanation should this be any reason to believe it true? This comes down to: "I have a pressing reason to believe X, so if you can justify my belief then it must be true because it satisfies this need." Fulfilling a need is a poor basis for establishing truth.

 

[Thief]

So, because this satisfies one's need for explanation should this be any reason to believe it true? This comes down to: "I have a pressing reason to believe X, so if you can justify my belief then it must be true because it satisfies this need." Fulfilling a need is a poor basis for establishing truth.

No...
I press my view point as I do...because of the reality science presents.

There was a beginning....the singularity.
For every effect there is a cause.

I often capitalize the word...Cause.

 

[Thief]

It's only a problem in that there's no real evidence for it, but it certainly is not a hypothetical problem, especially since most cosmologists drift in that direction according to research cosmologist Leonard Susskind.

Secondly, you cannot logical add one infinity on top of another as really quite illogical.

Such is the problem as explained by Dr. Kaku.
Infinity is a problem.

 

[Skwim]

No...
I press my view point as I do...because of the reality science presents.

Okay, but it makes me wonder why you brought up the issue of "Without the Creator the existence of Man has no Cause...or purpose."

 

[McBell]

No...
I press my view point as I do...because of the reality science presents.

There was a beginning....the singularity.
For every effect there is a cause.

I often capitalize the word...Cause.

Yet throw the whole thing out the window the second you make your god an exception to your cause/effect "reasoning"...

 

[Thief]

Yet throw the whole thing out the window the second you make your god an exception to your cause/effect "reasoning"...

How about a rock in your window?
hehehehehehe

 

[Thief]

Okay, but it makes me wonder why you brought up the issue of "Without the Creator the existence of Man has no Cause...or purpose."

Because...without a Creator we have no purpose.
Life would be just one huge complex reaction.....and terminal.

 

[Skwim]

Because...without a Creator we have no purpose.
Life would be just one huge complex reaction.....and terminal.

Not to be flip, but so what if we have no purpose? Moreover, considering all the wasted life---infant deaths, distress ravaged lives, etc.---god has certainly an odd, maybe even malicious, sense of purpose for such people. Does god really require such waste and suffering to give life purpose?

 

[Bunyip]

Because...without a Creator we have no purpose.
Life would be just one huge complex reaction.....and terminal.

Sure - life is a chemical reaction, why would that make it purposeless?

 

[Thief]

Sure - life is a chemical reaction, why would that make it purposeless?

The chemistry we call Man has a purpose....as long as God is waiting to see what stands up from the dust.

If there's no one waiting...no One interested....
That would really be too bad.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The chemistry we call Man has a purpose....as long as God is waiting to see what stands up from the dust.

If there's no one waiting...no One interested....
That would really be too bad.

You still havent said why.

And as always what happens to animals? Are they also to stand up from the dust? Or are they unimportant to God?

 

[Thief]

You still havent said why.

And as always what happens to animals? Are they also to stand up from the dust? Or are they unimportant to God?

We ARE animals.

Man happens to be the one that prays.

The rest of the life on this planet?.....does seem to support the higher forms.
That would be us.

All of this for Man?....yeah.
For this would be the item that produces spirit unique.

Animal forms in the next life?....sure why not.

Some of us will take wing.
Some of us will do no more than crawl away.

We are likely to be, what we truly are.

 

[metis]

Such is the problem as explained by Dr. Kaku.
Infinity is a problem.

That depends on how one may define it because space-time becomes distorted in a black hole. The important thing that relates to this discussion is that Kaku and most other cosmologists I have read do believe there was something before the Big Bang, and if you check the interview below with Kaku, notice especially the part I underlined. Also realize that Kaku's theories are certainly not the only ones out there.

Michio Kaku: Bruce, some people say, if we find the Theory of Everything, the crowning achievement of modern science. Ever since humans first began to ask, what is the world made of. Are we going to have wonders, technological wonders? Am I gonna get better color television? Am I gonna get better cable reception? Am I gonna get a better internet? Well, the short-term answer is, no. It’s not going to affect your life or the life of anyone directly, but look at it this way, this Theory of Everything, is also a theory of space and time and the universe itself. It will answer some of the deepest, philosophical, theological questions of all time. What happened before Genesis 1:1? What happens if time could be bent into a pretzel? What happens if space has holes in it? What happens if you could somehow manipulate space and time itself?

These questions are far beyond the theories of Einstein. Einstein’s theory breaks down at the instant of the Big Bang where it’s useless. Einstein’s theory breaks down at the center of a black hole. What lies on the other side of a black hole? What lies on the other side of a Big Bang? Einstein’s theories are useless because they simply blow up at that point. This is where a Theory of Everything comes in. String Theory being a Theory of Everything actually allows us to go before the Big Bang where there might have been a multiverse of universes. Without a universe being a bubble, we live on the skin of the bubble, the bubble is expanding and there are other bubbles out there floating in 11-dimensional hyperspace. And these bubbles in tern are connected perhaps by gateways, by tubes. These are called wormholes and we physicists take them very seriously. These wormholes may or may not be stable, we’re not sure, but they are definitely part of the equations of the Theory of Everything... -- The Theory of Everything | Michio Kaku | Big Think