The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans

[CMike]

Geographers and earth scientists

Further information: Muslim Agricultural Revolution
•Al-Masudi, the "Herodotus of the Arabs", and pioneer of historical geography[20]
•Al-Kindi, pioneer of environmental science[21]
•Ibn Al-Jazzar
•Al-Tamimi
•Al-Masihi
•Ali ibn Ridwan
•Muhammad al-Idrisi, also a cartographer
•Ahmad ibn Fadlan
•Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, father of geodesy,[9][12] considered the first geologist and "first anthropologist"[9]
•Avicenna
•Abd al-Latif al-Baghdadi
•Averroes
•Ibn al-Nafis
•Ibn Jubayr
•Ibn Battuta
•Ibn Khaldun
•Piri Reis
•Evliya Çelebi

Mathematicians
Further information: Islamic mathematics: Biographies•Al-Hajjāj ibn Yūsuf ibn Matar
•Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid)
•Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī (Algorismi) - father of algebra[22] and algorithms[23]
•'Abd al-Hamīd ibn Turk
•Abū al-Hasan ibn Alī al-Qalasādī (1412–1482), pioneer of symbolic algebra[24]
•Abū Kāmil Shujā ibn Aslam
•Al-Abbās ibn Said al-Jawharī
•Al-Kindi (Alkindus)
•Banū Mūsā (Ben Mousa)◦Ja'far Muhammad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
◦Al-Hasan ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir

•Al-Mahani
•Ahmed ibn Yusuf
•Al-Majriti
•Muhammad ibn Jābir al-Harrānī al-Battānī (Albatenius)
•Al-Farabi (Abunaser)
•Al-Khalili
•Al-Nayrizi
•Abū Ja'far al-Khāzin
•Brethren of Purity
•Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi
•Al-Saghani
•Abū Sahl al-Qūhī
•Abu-Mahmud al-Khujandi
•Abū al-Wafā' al-Būzjānī
•Ibn Sahl
•Al-Sijzi
•Ibn Yunus
•Abu Nasr Mansur
•Kushyar ibn Labban
•Al-Karaji
•Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen/Alhazen)
•Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī
•Ibn Tahir al-Baghdadi
•Al-Nasawi
•Al-Jayyani
•Abū Ishāq Ibrāhīm al-Zarqālī (Arzachel)
•Al-Mu'taman ibn Hud
•Omar Khayyám
•Al-Khazini
•Ibn Bajjah (Avempace)
•Al-Ghazali (Algazel)
•Al-Marrakushi
•Al-Samawal
•Averroes
•Avicenna
•Hunayn ibn Ishaq
•Ibn al-Banna'
•Ibn al-Shatir
•Ja'far ibn Muhammad Abu Ma'shar al-Balkhi (Albumasar)
•Jamshīd al-Kāshī
•Kamāl al-Dīn al-Fārisī
•Muḥyi al-Dīn al-Maghribī
•Maryam Mirzakhani
•Mo'ayyeduddin Urdi
•Muhammad Baqir Yazdi
•Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, 13th century Persian mathematician and philosopher
•Qāḍī Zāda al-Rūmī
•Qutb al-Din al-Shirazi
•Shams al-Dīn al-Samarqandī
•Sharaf al-Dīn al-Tūsī
•Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ma'ruf
•Ulugh Beg
•Lotfi Asker Zadeh, Azerbaijanian computer scientist; founder of Fuzzy Mathematics and fuzzy set theory[25][26]
•Cumrun Vafa

Biologists, neuroscientists, and psychologists

Further information: Islamic psychological thought
•Ibn Sirin (654–728), author of work on dreams and dream interpretation[27]
•Al-Kindi (Alkindus), pioneer of psychotherapy and music therapy[28]
•Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari, pioneer of psychiatry, clinical psychiatry and clinical psychology[29]
•Ahmed ibn Sahl al-Balkhi, pioneer of mental health,[30] medical psychology, cognitive psychology, cognitive therapy, psychophysiology and psychosomatic medicine[31]
•Al-Farabi (Alpharabius), pioneer of social psychology and consciousness studies[32]
•Ali ibn Abbas al-Majusi (Haly Abbas), pioneer of neuroanatomy, neurobiology and neurophysiology[32]
•Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Abulcasis), pioneer of neurosurgery[33]
•Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen), founder of experimental psychology, psychophysics, phenomenology and visual perception[34]
•Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, pioneer of reaction time[35]
•Avicenna (Ibn Sina), pioneer of neuropsychiatry,[36] thought experiment, self-awareness and self-consciousness[37]
•Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar), pioneer of neurology and neuropharmacology[33]
•Averroes, pioneer of Parkinson's disease[33]
•Ibn Tufail, pioneer of tabula rasa and nature versus nurture[38]
•Mir Sajad,Neuroscientist and pioneer in neuroinflammation and neurogenesis.[39][40]

Physicians and surgeons

Main article: Muslim doctors

Further information: Islamic medicine
•Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid)
•Jafar al-Sadiq
•Shapur ibn Sahl (d. 869), pioneer of pharmacy and pharmacopoeia[41]
•Al-Kindi (Alkindus) (801-873), pioneer of pharmacology[42]
•Abbas Ibn Firnas (Armen Firman) (810-887)
•Al-Jahiz, pioneer of natural selection
•Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari, pioneer of medical encyclopedia[29]
•Ahmed ibn Sahl al-Balkhi
•Ishaq bin Ali al-Rahwi (854–931), pioneer of peer review and medical peer review[43]
•Al-Farabi (Alpharabius)
•Ibn Al-Jazzar (circa 898-980)
•Abul Hasan al-Tabari - physician
•Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari - physician
•Ali ibn Abbas al-Majusi (d. 994), pioneer of obstetrics and perinatology[44]
•Abu Gaafar Amed ibn Ibrahim ibn abi Halid al-Gazzar (10th century), pioneer of dental restoration[45]
•Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (Abulcasis) - father of modern surgery, and pioneer of neurosurgery,[33] craniotomy,[44] hematology[46] and dental surgery[47]
•Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen), pioneer of eye surgery, visual system[48] and visual perception[49]
•Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī
•Avicenna (Ibn Sina) (980-1037) - father of modern medicine,[50] founder of Unani medicine,[46] pioneer of experimental medicine, evidence-based medicine, pharmaceutical sciences, clinical pharmacology,[51] aromatherapy,[52]pulsology and sphygmology,[53] and also a philosopher
•Hakim Syed Zillur Rahman, physician of Unani medicine
•Ibn Miskawayh
•Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar) - father of experimental surgery,[54] and pioneer of experimental anatomy, experimental physiology, human dissection, autopsy[55] and tracheotomy[56]
•Ibn Bajjah (Avempace)
•Ibn Tufail (Abubacer)
•Averroes
•Ibn al-Baitar
•Ibn Jazla
•Nasir al-Din Tusi
•Ibn al-Nafis (1213–1288), father of circulatory physiology, pioneer of circulatory anatomy,[57] and founder of Nafisian anatomy, physiology,[58] pulsology and sphygmology[59]
•Ibn al-Quff (1233–1305), pioneer of embryology[44]
•Kamāl al-Dīn al-Fārisī
•Ibn al-Khatib (1313–1374)
•Mansur ibn Ilyas
•Saghir Akhtar - pharmacist
•Syed Ziaur Rahman, pharmacologist
•Toffy Musivand
•Muhammad B. Yunus, the "father of our modern view of fibromyalgia"[60]
•Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, pioneer of biomedical research in space[61][62]
•Hulusi Behçet, known for the discovery of Behçet's disease
•Ibrahim B. Syed - radiologist
•Mehmet Öz, cardiothoracic surgeon
•Abdul Qayyum Rana, Neurologist known for his work on Parkinson's disease

Physicists and engineers

Further information: Islamic physics
•Jafar al-Sadiq, 8th century
•Banū Mūsā (Ben Mousa), 9th century◦Ja'far Muhammad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
◦Ahmad ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir
◦Al-Hasan ibn Mūsā ibn Shākir

•Abbas Ibn Firnas (Armen Firman), 9th century
•Al-Saghani, 10th century
•Abū Sahl al-Qūhī (Kuhi), 10th century
•Ibn Sahl, 10th century
•Ibn Yunus, 10th century
•Al-Karaji, 10th century
•Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen), 11th century Iraqi scientist, father of optics,[63] pioneer of scientific method[64] and experimental physics,[65] considered the "first scientist"[66]
•Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, 11th century, pioneer of experimental mechanics[67]
•Avicenna, 11th century
•Al-Khazini, 12th century
•Ibn Bajjah (Avempace), 12th century
•Hibat Allah Abu'l-Barakat al-Baghdaadi (Nathanel), 12th century
•Averroes, 12th century Andalusian mathematician, philosopher and medical expert
•Al-Jazari, 13th century civil engineer, father of robotics,[6]
•Nasir al-Din Tusi, 13th century
•Qutb al-Din al-Shirazi, 13th century
•Kamāl al-Dīn al-Fārisī, 13th century
•Ibn al-Shatir, 14th century
•Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ma'ruf, 16th century
•Hezarfen Ahmet Celebi, 17th century
•Lagari Hasan Çelebi, 17th century
•Sake Dean Mahomet, 18th century
•Tipu Sultan, 18th century Indian mechanician
•Fazlur Khan, 20th century Bangladeshi mechanician
•Mahmoud Hessaby, 20th century Iranian physicist
•Ali Javan, 20th century Iranian physicist
•Bacharuddin Jusuf Habibie, 20th century Indonesian aerospace engineer and president
•Abdul Kalam, Indian aeronautical engineer and nuclear scientist
•Mehran Kardar, Iranian theoretical physicist
•Cumrun Vafa, Iranian mathematical physicist
•Nima Arkani-Hamed, American-born Iranian physicist
•Abdel Nasser Tawfik, Egyptian-born German particle physicist
•Munir Nayfeh Palestinian-American particle physicist
•Riazuddin, Pakistani theoretical physicist
•Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistani nuclear scientist
•Ali Musharafa, Egyptian nuclear physicist
•Sameera Moussa, Egyptian nuclear physicist
•Munir Ahmad Khan, Father of Pakistan's nuclear program

Political scientists
•Syed Qutb
•Mohammad Baqir al-Sadr
•Abul Ala Maududi
•Hasan al-Turabi
•Hassan al-Banna
•Mohamed Hassanein Heikal
•Necmettin Erbakan
•M. A. Muqtedar Khan

Other scientists and inventors
•Azizul Haque

And they accomplished what?

 

[FearGod]

And they accomplished what?

What a silly question ?

Just show me how many Jewish scientists there were from the 1st century till the 19th century and then you may realize that the end of times is approaching.

 

[yoda89]

Exactly this isn't a political debate. Its become a religious one. The evidence of what people of Islamic or Judaic have accomplished is irrelevant to the argument of whether the US should stop supplying aid to Israel. If a person came up with the cure to cancer would it even matter what religion they were? Why because they haven't penciled in the same belief as you and it hurts your ego. Now, I suggest that you bring it back to a valid reason when discussing economical implications for stopping support.

 

[Assad91]

Exactly this isn't a political debate. Its become a religious one. The evidence of what people of Islamic or Judaic have accomplished is irrelevant to the argument of whether the US should stop supplying aid to Israel. If a person came up with the cure to cancer would it even matter what religion they were? Why because they haven't penciled in the same belief as you and it hurts your ego. Now, I suggest that you bring it back to a valid reason when discussing economical implications for stopping support.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Assad91]

I think America shouldn't be sending money to Israel. Nor should America be sending money to Egypt, Pakistan or any other country.

 

[CMike]

What a silly question ?

Just show me how many Jewish scientists there were from the 1st century till the 19th century and then you may realize that the end of times is approaching.

The point is that jews depite being a small minority have contributed greatly to civilization by leading the way in medicine, chemistry, physics, literature, etc.

 

[CMike]

I think America shouldn't be sending money to Israel. Nor should America be sending money to Egypt, Pakistan or any other country.

Yeah...only Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia should be sending the arab countries arms and money so Israel can be extinguished

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah...only Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia should be sending the arab countries arms and money so Israel can be extinguished

Considering the context of this thread, does this mean that you think Americastan owes Israel it's support & protection?

 

[metis]

As part of the U.N. agreement when partitioning Palestine, we agreed to be Israel's protector.

 

[Revoltingest]

As part of the U.N. agreement when partitioning Palestine, we agreed to be Israel's protector.

Have any nice hot smoky links for this?
Anyway, I reserve the right to opt out of any such agreement that we protect our ward.

 

[yoda89]

Yeah...only Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia should be sending the arab countries arms and money so Israel can be extinguished

Iran and Saudi Arabia are both Arab countries. So I don't see the sense in sending money to themselves.

As time progresses the influence and importance of Israel to the United States becomes less. As the United States gains more allies, comes up with more agreements and treaties its direct intervention will be scaled back in favor a more observer in the region. Which isn't great for Israel. Due to the fact if things go to hell we wont be as directly involved and are more likely to let pieces fall as they may. Especially if we have allies on both sides.

Its important to point out the current environment when discussing this issue. Right now there are sanctions on Iran's Nuclear Sector. They were no where near having a nuclear weapon. Its a very complex process. If they were close Israel would have stepped in and stopped it themselves. We would not have stopped them. This however was a peaceful solution and actually helped the Iranians very much.

Religious views are important to many of those countries, their leaders and its people. However, the United States could care less about them. They care about the harms economically that come from the fighting between them and the safety of the United States. In the past that meant backing up Israel. If it is better for the US to shift strategies then they will.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Iran and Saudi Arabia are both Arab countries.

Iran is a Persian country. How do you manage to be so self-assured while being so ill-informed?

 

[Revoltingest]

Iran and Saudi Arabia are both Arab countries. So I don't see the sense in sending money to themselves.

Tell that to an Iranian you should not.
Aside from not being an Arab country (not on the peninsula & not speaking Arabic), they don't like (in my experience) Saudi Arabia.

Oops! Didn't see you there Jay.

 

[yoda89]

Iran is a Persian country. How do you manage to be so self-assures while being so ill-informed?

I'm glad you actually looked something up. Of course it is and I wanted to see if you would catch that. Now, look at that map and tell me where Saudi Arabia is.

It happens to be there. You replied quickly and without thinking that a country was sending money to itself. Then when I wrote out a detailed response all you replied to was the first line. Not giving any response to my other comments. I don't mean to hurt your feelings to hear that Israel is becoming less important to the US strategy in the middle east. However this is a political debate and not a religious one. The thing is that the United States doesn't care if people in the area worshipped dish washers and coffee cups.

If you believe it is still very pivotal I would love to hear your take on that.

 

[CMike]

The Russians and Iran pour arms and money to their allies in the middle east.

Unless the US wants the region controlled by the Ruskies, Iran, and other american enemies, it needs to assist Israel, the only democratic country in the region.

Otherwise the enemies of the US will control a strategic region for the US.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm glad you actually looked something up. Of course it is and I wanted to see if you would catch that.

That is easily one of the most adolescent and dishonest responses I've read on these forums, and I've been here for awhile.

 

[Shia Islam]

Yeah...only Russia, Iran, and Saudi Arabia should be sending the arab countries arms and money so Israel can be extinguished

When you create an artificial state you need to pay forever for its continuation.

What is sure is that it's not the Americans who will decide whether they should continue to sacrifice for Israel; it's the elders of AIPAC.

 

[Tumah]

...it's the elders of AIPAC.

Oy.
:sad:

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... it's the elders of AIPAC.

Oy.
:sad:

Often referred to as the EOAIPAC - an insidious clique cleverly masquerading as an underwhelming Scrabble rack.

 

[metis]

When you create an artificial state you need to pay forever for its continuation.

All states are "artificial".