The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans

[Caladan]

All states are "artificial".

And some states were never created... nor had currency of their own, nor independent rule in their history... nor any memorable cultural personas beyond the previous decades, nor any sense of historical ethos until several decades ago. But still they claim to be an authentic, and 'rightful' owner of a land they never owned.
But we wont name such artificial countries... ahem sorry, cultures.

 

[yoda89]

That is easily one of the most adolescent and dishonest responses I've read on these forums, and I've been here for awhile.

If you want to believe so that's fine. The concept of Israel becoming less important is something you seem unwilling to accept because of your religious views. Tell me if it was an Islamic democratic state surrounded by Jewish states would you be so eager to defend it or would you want to crush it like a bug? Unless you plan to protect the ideology of democracy. In which case if this Islamic state were the only democratic state around you would fully accept and wish to continue aid?

 

[yoda89]

The Russians and Iran pour arms and money to their allies in the middle east.

Unless the US wants the region controlled by the Ruskies, Iran, and other american enemies, it needs to assist Israel, the only democratic country in the region.

Otherwise the enemies of the US will control a strategic region for the US.

I agree this is a good point. Israel is a strategic place of necessity currently especially to offset aid to the other countries. However, what's often overlooked is that Israel economically can actually fend for itself. Their military is also one of the best in the world according to quality and they do have the ability to crush any harmful project around them.

So I ask you. What if those who do support the other states in the middle east stopped doing so? Would this not lead to the United States to backing off? If so then where does that leave Israel?

 

[metis]

Yoda, Israel has not initiated attacks against its neighbors but merely has chosen to defend itself, and it would be unacceptable in Judaism to conduct a war of offense since it was prohibited after the end of the prophetic age to do as such.

 

[metis]

I agree this is a good point. Israel is a strategic place of necessity currently especially to offset aid to the other countries. However, what's often overlooked is that Israel economically can actually fend for itself. Their military is also one of the best in the world according to quality and they do have the ability to crush any harmful project around them.

So I ask you. What if those who do support the other states in the middle east stopped doing so? Would this not lead to the United States to backing off? If so then where does that leave Israel?

Israel is unfortunately surrounded by real or potential in three sides, and it's only a country the size of Delaware, therefore is extremely vulnerable. Secondly, we do aid other countries in the area, including with weapons, such as Egypt and Iraq.

 

[Caladan]

If you want to believe so that's fine. The concept of Israel becoming less important is something you seem unwilling to accept because of your religious views. Tell me if it was an Islamic democratic state surrounded by Jewish states would you be so eager to defend it or would you want to crush it like a bug? Unless you plan to protect the ideology of democracy. In which case if this Islamic state were the only democratic state around you would fully accept and wish to continue aid?


I agree this is a good point. Israel is a strategic place of necessity currently especially to offset aid to the other countries. However, what's often overlooked is that Israel economically can actually fend for itself. Their military is also one of the best in the world according to quality and they do have the ability to crush any harmful project around them.

So I ask you. What if those who do support the other states in the middle east stopped doing so? Would this not lead to the United States to backing off? If so then where does that leave Israel?

I personally believe that it's you who is slightly biased towards making it about religion. What if that so called democratic Muslim nation provided the US a foothold in a region which was of outmost importance? A foothold which countered decades of Soviet hold, and post-Soviet Russian hold, for example?

If the US would decide that the region in its entirety is not in its major interests anymore, then it should reconsider and reconfigure its entire foreign perspective and system. I can pretty much tell you what is likely to happen in such a scenario, the US will shift its foreign attention to East Asia to counter Chinese hold on the region, and instead of Israel, nations such as South Korea and possibly Singapore will function the same way. As democratic and anti communist, anti totalitarian footholds in the region.

 

[yoda89]

Israel is unfortunately surrounded by real or potential in three sides, and it's only a country the size of Delaware, therefore is extremely vulnerable. Secondly, we do aid other countries in the area, including with weapons, such as Egypt and Iraq.

Lets say Iran actually had all the components to make a nuclear warhead and were on their way to do so. They aren't there yet. However they will be and have threated to use it against Israel. Israel knows where it is and can stop them from doing so. Would that be a sign of an attack and therefore would be self defense to go and stop it before it happened? Is it verbal or does someone have to die for it to be considered defense?

The United States makes other strategic alliances in the area. So much so that it starts to cut back on all other funding. As an unwritten response and agreement countries supporting the other middle eastern states also do so. If Israel must always have the support of the United States where does it leave it without it?

 

[metis]

Lets say Iran actually had all the components to make a nuclear warhead and were on their way to do so. They aren't there yet. However they will be and have threated to use it against Israel. Israel knows where it is and can stop them from doing so. Would that be a sign of an attack and therefore would be self defense to go and stop it before it happened? Is it verbal or does someone have to die for it to be considered defense?

Iran has already declared war on Israel-- many times. In what we call the Yom Kippur War, Israel was faced with possible defeat within one day, and yet Golda Meir refused to launch even tactical nukes let alone strategic nukes.

Israel already has the right to respond as a decolaration of war has already been made. However, it is my hope that the process that has been started with Kerry going into that may bring forth a non-nuclear Iran, because some Middle Eastern experts do believe that Iran would quite possibly use them because of the beliefs of the radical imams that are calling the shots (the president is mostly a figurehead with very limited powers).

The United States makes other strategic alliances in the area. So much so that it starts to cut back on all other funding. As an unwritten response and agreement countries supporting the other middle eastern states also do so. If Israel must always have the support of the United States where does it leave it without it?

I cannot see in the near future us stopping the aid and cooperation we have with Israel because so much is relied upon by both sides. We have jointly developed weapons systems; we train Israeli pilots here; we use Israel for R & R for some of our troops; we know they can help us strategically when dealing with surrounding countries; Israel buys many American products (aid always has strings attached to it); etc.

 

[yoda89]

I personally believe that it's you who is slightly biased towards making it about religion. What if that so called democratic Muslim nation provided the US a foothold in a region which was of outmost importance? A foothold which countered decades of Soviet hold, and post-Soviet Russian hold, for example?

I wouldn't care if they were Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Pagan, Satanist. Nor does the United States. You are correct in saying that it was of the outmost importance. The soviet union fell long ago. As the United States continues becoming less dependent on energy from the middle east it becomes less and less important to its objectives. Its becoming less and less worth it. There may come a time when the United States will not continue to support Israel when there is nothing left there for us. It might even come when we can no longer afford to do so. Hopefully there will be peace by that time and everyone will get along.

If the US would decide that the region in its entirety is not in its major interests anymore, then it should reconsider and reconfigure its entire foreign perspective and system. I can pretty much tell you what is likely to happen in such a scenario, the US will shift its foreign attention to East Asia to counter Chinese hold on the region, and instead of Israel, nations such as South Korea and possibly Singapore will function the same way. As democratic and anti communist, anti totalitarian footholds in the region.

The fact that we are discussing whether or not we should move out and cut funding is an indication that we already have shifted focus. The United States has interests all over the world. They have already let Japan off its leash.

Its not really about democracy, anti communist or ant totalitarian. Its what best for America in most leaders eyes. These countries are huge bases. Something that can squash anything that attempts to interfere.

 

[CMike]

I agree this is a good point. Israel is a strategic place of necessity currently especially to offset aid to the other countries. However, what's often overlooked is that Israel economically can actually fend for itself. Their military is also one of the best in the world according to quality and they do have the ability to crush any harmful project around them.

So I ask you. What if those who do support the other states in the middle east stopped doing so? Would this not lead to the United States to backing off? If so then where does that leave Israel?

It's irrelevant at this point. It hasn't happened. I don't want to deal with hypotheticals.

There is a balance of power.

Also, Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear facility. Israel was condemned by almost all countries including the US. However, imagine the US fighting the war against Hussein, when Hussein had nukes.

More recently, Israel took out Syria's nuclear facility.

Israel does the dirty work that the US won't do.

 

[Flankerl]

I dont get how anyone could try to talk to someone who believes that Iranians are arabs.

 

[Caladan]

I dont get how anyone could try to talk to someone who believes that Iranians are arabs.

Considering we've been responding to people who believe that a Devil-worshiping cabal of Jews has been running the show for centuries, or that Jews actually do teach that non Jewish children are an essential ingredient in holiday recipes... could be worse.
I didn't really make it better did I?

 

[Revoltingest]

I dont get how anyone could try to talk to someone who believes that Iranians are arabs.

Well, the first thing I mentioned to'm was that Iranians aren't Arabs.
That's how ya try.

 

[FearGod]

It's irrelevant at this point. It hasn't happened. I don't want to deal with hypotheticals.

There is a balance of power.

Also, Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear facility. Israel was condemned by almost all countries including the US. However, imagine the US fighting the war against Hussein, when Hussein had nukes.

More recently, Israel took out Syria's nuclear facility.

Israel does the dirty work that the US won't do.

Yes Israel protects the US, that make sense.

[youtube]NsZ8xN6TeWg[/youtube]
Netanyahu Draws a Cartoon 'Bomb' at United Nations! - YouTube

 

[Assad91]

And some states were never created... nor had currency of their own, nor independent rule in their history... nor any memorable cultural personas beyond the previous decades, nor any sense of historical ethos until several decades ago. But still they claim to be an authentic, and 'rightful' owner of a land they never owned.
But we wont name such artificial countries... ahem sorry, cultures.

Never thought such honesty about Israel would come from an Israeli.



I applaud your honesty and courage

 

[Caladan]

Never thought such honesty about Israel would come from an Israeli.



I applaud your honesty and courage

No, no... So there is no confusion we are of course talking about the Palestinians, as Israeli Jews do have all the elements I have listed. Palestine on the other hand is an utterly historically vague entity, its so called existence is a modern novelty. Much like the rest of the artificial Arab states that are crumbling around Israel.

 

[Tumah]

Never thought such honesty about Israel would come from an Israeli.



I applaud your honesty and courage

 

[Clarity]

So Enjoy reading and share your views:

Here's mine:

I'm a CPA. I audit financial records for a living, and I'll only tell you this once:

NEVER NEVER NEVER accept any kind of financial information unless it is accompanied by an Auditor's Report.

(You're being lied to. I guarantee it.)

 

[Shia Islam]

Here's mine:

I'm a CPA. I audit financial records for a living, and I'll only tell you this once:

NEVER NEVER NEVER accept any kind of financial information unless it is accompanied by an Auditor's Report.

(You're being lied to. I guarantee it.)

So you are one of the court factor bankers?

 

[Clarity]

So you are one of the court factor bankers?

Never heard of it.

Every time the government passes new regulation, they usually demand that participants qualify through submitting audited records.

I'm the one they call to get them.