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The story of the Bible is a journey, from the garden, back to the garden, with a twist.

teage

teage

Member
Yeshua uses metaphors often and that's ok. However, I do not believe it is ok to ADD a metaphor. I believe to add a metaphor is to altar the text and so when I read the Bible, I read it with that in mind.

I have come to the conclusion that everything that happens in the text is but part of the journey to the ultimate destination, the garden. Mankind starts in the garden, becomes aware, gets cursed and then cast out and ultimately ends back in the garden, cursed removed, but still aware for ever and ever.

Also, I'm brand new here and hope to have civil discussions with civil ppl. I know Religion can be a hot topic, pulling at the very fabric of ones being at times when confronted with a different point of view. With that said, my aim is to be respectful of others beliefs as their input is important to me. Whether I agree or not.
Thanks, can't wait to meet everyone.
 
MJ Bailey

MJ Bailey

Member
Hello. Welcome to RF. I am thankful for another individual who appreciates logical and non-judgemental conversations; (be careful on this social media. There are some who will attack you for asking a question.). Concerning your topic; good conclusion as for the topic of the Bible. Yet the Bible is historically incorrect without all of the "stories" being included without Catholic canonization. The lost books of Eden as well as other "forgotten" books of the Bible may change your impression of mind.
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
teage said:
Also, I'm brand new here and hope to have civil discussions with civil ppl. I know Religion can be a hot topic, pulling at the very fabric of ones being at times when confronted with a different point of view. With that said, my aim is to be respectful of others beliefs as their input is important to me. Whether I agree or not.
Thanks, can't wait to meet everyone.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum!
 
teage

teage

Member
"The lost books of Eden as well as other "forgotten" books of the Bible may change your impression of mind."

Agreed,
MJ Bailey said:
Hello. Welcome to RF. I am thankful for another individual who appreciates logical and non-judgemental conversations; (be careful on this social media. There are some who will attack you for asking a question.). Concerning your topic; good conclusion as for the topic of the Bible. Yet the Bible is historically incorrect without all of the "stories" being included without Catholic canonization. The lost books of Eden as well as other "forgotten" books of the Bible may change your impression of mind.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words. I wonder if any of those scriptures are among the Vatican archives?
 
Eddi

Eddi

Wesleyan Pantheist
Premium Member
teage said:
Yeshua uses metaphors often and that's ok. However, I do not believe it is ok to ADD a metaphor. I believe to add a metaphor is to altar the text and so when I read the Bible, I read it with that in mind.

I have come to the conclusion that everything that happens in the text is but part of the journey to the ultimate destination, the garden. Mankind starts in the garden, becomes aware, gets cursed and then cast out and ultimately ends back in the garden, cursed removed, but still aware for ever and ever.

Also, I'm brand new here and hope to have civil discussions with civil ppl. I know Religion can be a hot topic, pulling at the very fabric of ones being at times when confronted with a different point of view. With that said, my aim is to be respectful of others beliefs as their input is important to me. Whether I agree or not.
Thanks, can't wait to meet everyone.
Click to expand...
Hello and welcome!!!!
 
amatuerscholar

amatuerscholar

Member
teage said:
Yeshua uses metaphors often and that's ok. However, I do not believe it is ok to ADD a metaphor. I believe to add a metaphor is to altar the text and so when I read the Bible, I read it with that in mind.

I have come to the conclusion that everything that happens in the text is but part of the journey to the ultimate destination, the garden. Mankind starts in the garden, becomes aware, gets cursed and then cast out and ultimately ends back in the garden, cursed removed, but still aware for ever and ever.

Also, I'm brand new here and hope to have civil discussions with civil ppl. I know Religion can be a hot topic, pulling at the very fabric of ones being at times when confronted with a different point of view. With that said, my aim is to be respectful of others beliefs as their input is important to me. Whether I agree or not.
Thanks, can't wait to meet everyone.
Click to expand...
I think it's a nice idea, but I don't think the text supports it. The Garden is mythological. It's a story invented in order to try to make sense of the world. It wasn't meant to be taken literally, and it's not something we can ever get back to, even if it existed.

The end of the Bible, for Christians, Revelations, has nothing to do with the end times and getting back to the Garden. It has to do with what was happening at that time. It was describing Rome, and Roman persecution against the new Christain movement. They wrote it in "code" or in metaphors because calling out Rome and demonizing them wasn't a good idea. It would certainly bring more negative attention on them.

So it doesn't bring us to the end, or to the Garden.

Now, one can see a concept of the Kingdom of God in some of the texts, but the Kingdom of God is never described as the Garden. And it really doesn't fit that idea. If one take a general brush, one could say there is some idea of going from one Paradise to possibly another form of Paradise, but that only somewhat works.

Most of the Bible has nothing to do with this concept though. So the idea, while nice, just doesn't work with the text.
 
teage

teage

Member
amatuerscholar said:
I think it's a nice idea, but I don't think the text supports it. The Garden is mythological. It's a story invented in order to try to make sense of the world. It wasn't meant to be taken literally, and it's not something we can ever get back to, even if it existed.

The end of the Bible, for Christians, Revelations, has nothing to do with the end times and getting back to the Garden. It has to do with what was happening at that time. It was describing Rome, and Roman persecution against the new Christain movement. They wrote it in "code" or in metaphors because calling out Rome and demonizing them wasn't a good idea. It would certainly bring more negative attention on them.

So it doesn't bring us to the end, or to the Garden.

Now, one can see a concept of the Kingdom of God in some of the texts, but the Kingdom of God is never described as the Garden. And it really doesn't fit that idea. If one take a general brush, one could say there is some idea of going from one Paradise to possibly another form of Paradise, but that only somewhat works.

Most of the Bible has nothing to do with this concept though. So the idea, while nice, just doesn't work with the text.
Click to expand...
But that is how it ends, in Revelation. It describes a garden. The tree of life that grows fruit etc etc. Im curious, what is your conclusion?
 
teage

teage

Member
teage said:
But that is how it ends, in Revelation. It describes a garden. The tree of life that grows fruit etc etc. Im curious, what is your conclusion?
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong, I get what you are saying about Rome and the way things where then, but the text without added metaphors makes perfect sense. Many of those questions are answered by Yeshua himself.
 
Spice

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
I agree that humankind is on a journey towards the innocence that we began in, but retaining the gained knowledge. I also believe the Bible states it in a very mythological manner as the wise of ancient times could not fully understand the oral histories passed down, nor understand the magnitude of what the species would need to endure to accept and corral the knowledge to come within the boundaries of God's will. I don't think we understand that even now. We have quite a ways to go to grasp this world and our knowledge of it and use it in righteous endeavors only.
 
MJ Bailey

MJ Bailey

Member
Vatican recognized writings non canonized. I am not completely sure of reasons of canonization however granted an absolute knowledge of logic. difficult
 
Feedmysheep

Feedmysheep

Active Member
The first two chapters of the 66 books of the Bible and the last two chapters are like bookends.
They reflect each other.

Teage says the return to the garden with a twist is what is conveyed.
I would agree but say the return + more is seen.

The garden is enlarged to a city.
The river with onyx stone, gold, and bedellium is enlarged to a river of water of life circulating
through a city with bedellioum like gates (pearl), in the middle of a street of clear transparent gold, and the wall of the city
adorned with twelve manner of precious stones.

The vision of the New Jerusalem is a sign as the profound nature of reality is made known by signs (Rev. 1:1)

God from the beginning gave a window into His eternal purpose in Genesis 1,2.
God in the conclusion brings to mind His complete fulfillment of His purpose in Revelation 21,22.

The parallels are astounding. The reflecting of the completion of the Bible with its beginning is stricking.

In fact an excellent way to read the Bible is to first keep one's eye on the final outcome.
And seeing the destination toward which all things are headed remember that EVERYTHING in the Bible
is headed for that destination. Everything is FOR that final outcome.
And all negative and positive things in the Bible are engineered by God to accomplish what we see in Revelation 21,22.
 
teage

teage

Member
Feedmysheep said:
The first two chapters of the 66 books of the Bible and the last two chapters are like bookends.
They reflect each other.

Teage says the return to the garden with a twist is what is conveyed.
I would agree but say the return + more is seen.

The garden is enlarged to a city.
The river with onyx stone, gold, and bedellium is enlarged to a river of water of life circulating
through a city with bedellioum like gates (pearl), in the middle of a street of clear transparent gold, and the wall of the city
adorned with twelve manner of precious stones.

The vision of the New Jerusalem is a sign as the profound nature of reality is made known by signs (Rev. 1:1)

God from the beginning gave a window into His eternal purpose in Genesis 1,2.
God in the conclusion brings to mind His complete fulfillment of His purpose in Revelation 21,22.

The parallels are astounding. The reflecting of the completion of the Bible with its beginning is stricking.

In fact an excellent way to read the Bible is to first keep one's eye on the final outcome.
And seeing the destination toward which all things are headed remember that EVERYTHING in the Bible
is headed for that destination. Everything is FOR that final outcome.
And all negative and positive things in the Bible are engineered by God to accomplish what we see in Revelation 21,22.
Click to expand...
Its worth noting that the same state the "serpent" caused, is in fact the same state of the garden of Revelation, minus the curse.
 
teage

teage

Member
Feedmysheep said:
You'll have to clarify that to me a little.
I'm not sure I follow you.
Click to expand...
Ok, so, in Genesis, "God" planted a garden, the tree of life is in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

He then placed man in the garden to work it and keep it.
And "God" told Adam that he may eat of every tree of the garden, but not of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Then comes the serpent.
Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit.
"God" curses them.
Now they are outside the garden and no access to the tree of life and mankind dies.

So that's roughly the story that Christianity teaches.

Now if we jump to Revelation:

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Revelation of John 22:1-3

So, back in the garden,
Access to the tree of life = immortality,
Curse lifted.
No mention of taking away our awareness? Mentions everything else, we retain awareness. Exactly the state the "serpent" put us in the first place.
 
G

GoodAttention

Well-Known Member
teage said:
Ok, so, in Genesis, "God" planted a garden, the tree of life is in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

He then placed man in the garden to work it and keep it.
And "God" told Adam that he may eat of every tree of the garden, but not of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Then comes the serpent.
Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit.
"God" curses them.
Now they are outside the garden and no access to the tree of life and mankind dies.

So that's roughly the story that Christianity teaches.

Now if we jump to Revelation:

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Revelation of John 22:1-3

So, back in the garden,
Access to the tree of life = immortality,
Curse lifted.
No mention of taking away our awareness? Mentions everything else, we retain awareness. Exactly the state the "serpent" put us in the first place.
Click to expand...

Eve believed she would become one with God, as did Adam who was with her.
Their desire was greater than their fear of death, and the intent to eat was expressed as one flesh.
Once they ate, they realized their mistake, and understood fear, of God, was absolute.
God provides justice, as their heart was good, but their actions were disobedient, which they cannot hide from.
The serpent becomes a snake for its involvement, and its existence a reminder of God's mercy.
 
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