The Strange Thing about Creationism

[outhouse]

Ok but would love to hear how they were involved.
Well the first forms of photosynthesis would not have produced oxygen and would have been able to withstand the sun for obvious reasons.

correct

The atmosphere - origin and structure


Photochemical dissociation - breakup of water molecules by ultraviolet

• Produced O2 levels approx. 1-2% current levels
• At these levels O3 (Ozone) can form to shield Earth surface from UV

 

[Shermana]

Empirical objective evidence that leads to the logical conclusion of Creationism.

So you repeat yourself when I ask you what kind of criteria you would consider to be evidence of Creation.

 

[Shermana]

you really dont have a clue do you????


it didnt, its only your ignorant comment

water had been around for almost a billion years before life was known.

lightning was here longer, thuis ozone was here before life.


once again you fail

Please provide a single link that says Lightning created the Ozone. I hope you realize just how much lightning this would take.

 

[outhouse]

Please provide a single link that says Lightning created the Ozone. I hope you realize just how much lightning this would take.

lightning is a contributing factor.

I posted a link on the atmosphere so you could learn.

quit argueing garbage and start learning

 

[Jose Fly]

Because there's an Ozone layer. But it often happens. The BGA didn't have this luxury.

Can I Tan Underwater?
Quote:
The tanning difference in various types of water is as a result of light absorption. The light from the sun, specifically the UVA rays, is naturally absorbed in every type of water, allowing you to tan underwater. However studies have shown that the absorption is minimal in clear bodies of water. UVA light is strong and may cause a sunburn underwater instead of an underwater tan. Most tanning experts agree that the deeper the water, the more light that is absorbed and thus the less UVA rays that will reach the surface of a swimmer’s skin to cause a tan underwater or a sunburn underwater, but water does not provide full protection from the sun. The UVA and UVB rays from the sun can still cause great harm to the skin.

Um, yeah...I'm sure the early earth's water was perfectly clear, all the way to the bottom.

I love how you guys just throw out anything and everything you can find, no matter how ridiculous it is. "Yeah sure water absorbs UV rays...but not perfectly clear water!!" Oh wow, I guess you sure showed me!

 

[JustWondering2]

Please provide a single link that says Lightning created the Ozone. I hope you realize just how much lightning this would take.

Here's your link Ozone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow that was hard to find!! LOL :thud:

If there was water on the early Earth, there was water vapor in the atmosphere. If there was water vapor in the early Earths atmosphere, there surely could have been lightning. Lightning + water vapor + whatever other gases = Ozone production!

OBTW Lightning can aslo be caused by volcanic eruptions.

With that in minc it seem logical to say that it took a while (millions of years) after the Earth formed for there to be enough Ozone in the upper atmosphere to block out enough UV for life to get started.

 

[Shermana]

Here's your link Ozone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow that was hard to find!! LOL :thud:

If there was water on the early Earth, there was water vapor in the atmosphere. If there was water vapor in the early Earths atmosphere, there surely could have been lightning. Lightning + water vapor + whatever other gases = Ozone production!

OBTW Lightning can aslo be caused by volcanic eruptions.

With that in minc it seem logical to say that it took a while (millions of years) after the Earth formed for there to be enough Ozone in the upper atmosphere to block out enough UV for life to get started.

That link says that Lightning can produce the Ozone in the Ozone layer? Please produce a quote. I would like to see a single reference that attributes the Ozone layer to lightning.

Post Edit: I'm repeating again that sentence from that link, I should throw it into a Dubstep song.

. Ozone formed in the lower atmosphere does not survive the time it takes (on the order of months) to diffuse all the way up to the "ozone layer

I can only wonder if you have any idea how much lightning would be needed to create the Ozone, all at once, for it to survive the transition to the "Ozone layer".

 

[Shermana]

Um, yeah...I'm sure the early earth's water was perfectly clear, all the way to the bottom.

I love how you guys just throw out anything and everything you can find, no matter how ridiculous it is. "Yeah sure water absorbs UV rays...but not perfectly clear water!!" Oh wow, I guess you sure showed me!

I'm sure you're aware that all of the current hypothesis about the Ozone involve BGA near the surface of the water, so if you have some new theory that says they were not at the surface but towards the bottom, feel free to share a link on this, would be interesting to see an account of BG Algae starting not at the surface. Please explain what would be murkying the waters in their primeval state.

 

[Shermana]

lightning is a contributing factor.

I posted a link on the atmosphere so you could learn.

quit argueing garbage and start learning

How is ozone layer formed by oxygen during lightning

The ozone in the "ozone layer" is not formed by lightning. Ozone formed in the lower atmosphere does not survive the time it takes (on the order of months) to diffuse all the way up to the "ozone layer". Ozone in the ozone layer is formed when UV-C (primarily from our Sun) is absorbed by oxygen, breaks apart into oxygen atoms, and eventually some of those oxygen atoms end up forming ozone. Ozone decays naturally with time (and contaminants can increase that decay), so more ozone must be made continually.

I love the sound of that quote, let me repeat that: ". Ozone formed in the lower atmosphere does not survive the time it takes (on the order of months) to diffuse all the way up to the "ozone layer"

 

[idav]

Shermana, you should realize that poking holes in the theories in various fields of science is not putting one dent in the theory of evolution. It has been mentioned already several times by several people. While you are arguing about what happened some 3.5 billion years ago you end up missing the point completely.

 

[tumbleweed41]

So you repeat yourself when I ask you what kind of criteria you would consider to be evidence of Creation.

You asked for the criteria.
Objective

1. of or relating to a material object, actual existence or reality
2. agreed upon by all parties present (or nearly all); based on consensually observed facts  
3. not influenced by irrational emotions or prejudices

Empirical

1. Pertaining to or based on experience.
2. Pertaining to, derived from, or testable by observations made using the physical senses or using instruments which extend the senses.
3. (philosophy of science) Verifiable by means of scientific experimentation.

Evidence

1. Facts or observations presented in support of an assertion.

...that leads to the...

Obvious

1. Easily discovered, seen, or understood; self-explanatory.

Conclusion

1. A decision reached after careful thought.
2. In a syllogism, the proposition that follows as a necessary consequence of the premises.

...of Creationism.

Got it?



(Wiktionary)

 

[Jose Fly]

I'm sure you're aware that all of the current hypothesis about the Ozone involve BGA near the surface of the water, so if you have some new theory that says they were not at the surface but towards the bottom, feel free to share a link on this, would be interesting to see an account of BG Algae starting not at the surface. Please explain what would be murkying the waters in their primeval state.

Biology Department of the University of Oregon

"A long-term project has been an evaluation of the adaptive value of responses by cyanobacteria to high UV-radiation, in the context of natural habitats. In these studies, the Castenholz lab team has identified and characterized scytonemin, a UV-sunscreen pigment in sheaths surrounding many highly exposed cyanobacteria, and they have demonstrated the importance of this compound in increasing fitness. They have also shown a vital, vertical escape response of motile cyanobacteria to UV radiation in microbial mats, both in temperate and polar environments."

Extremophiles are neat creatures.

This is also a good read: http://www.dlr.de/me/Portaldata/25/Resources/dokumente/publikationen/P3_14.pdf

And the funny thing is, I see you've discussed this elsewhere on the internet, with similar results.

 

[Shermana]

Biology Department of the University of Oregon

"A long-term project has been an evaluation of the adaptive value of responses by cyanobacteria to high UV-radiation, in the context of natural habitats. In these studies, the Castenholz lab team has identified and characterized scytonemin, a UV-sunscreen pigment in sheaths surrounding many highly exposed cyanobacteria, and they have demonstrated the importance of this compound in increasing fitness. They have also shown a vital, vertical escape response of motile cyanobacteria to UV radiation in microbial mats, both in temperate and polar environments."

Extremophiles are neat creatures.

This is also a good read: http://www.dlr.de/me/Portaldata/25/Resources/dokumente/publikationen/P3_14.pdf

And the funny thing is, I see you've discussed this elsewhere on the internet, with similar results.

Funny thing, Painted Wolf already mentioned extremophiles.

Please provide evidence that Extremophiles produced oxygen, thanks.

 

[Shermana]

You asked for the criteria.
Objective

1. of or relating to a material object, actual existence or reality
2. agreed upon by all parties present (or nearly all); based on consensually observed facts  
3. not influenced by irrational emotions or prejudices

Empirical

1. Pertaining to or based on experience.
2. Pertaining to, derived from, or testable by observations made using the physical senses or using instruments which extend the senses.
3. (philosophy of science) Verifiable by means of scientific experimentation.

Evidence

1. Facts or observations presented in support of an assertion.

...that leads to the...

Obvious

1. Easily discovered, seen, or understood; self-explanatory.

Conclusion

1. A decision reached after careful thought.
2. In a syllogism, the proposition that follows as a necessary consequence of the premises.

...of Creationism.

Got it?



(Wiktionary)

So let the reader note, that you cannot provide a coherent definition of what you would consider empirical evidence of Creation.

Let me ask once again, for the third time, what would you consider to be the criteria for such empirical evidence of design. Don't just repeat yourself again, actually answer, what you would call something that can be labeled as proof of Creationism, then we can accomodate and I can provide data from Cellular microbiology that conforms to your criteria.

But if you keep trumpeting the same thing, that's just showing you have no idea what you're looking for and trying to act as if you do.

 

[Jose Fly]

Funny thing, Painted Wolf already mentioned extremophiles.

Please provide evidence that Extremophiles produced oxygen, thanks.

?????? Where the heck did that come from?

"No way life could have survived in the early earth. There was too much UV radation and no ozone layer."

"Here are examples of extremophiles that do quite well in high-UV environments, and have also adapted specific behaviors to cope with the extreme conditions."

"Ummm...er....but you can't prove they made oxygen!!"

Gee, I can't imagine why creationists are laughed at worldwide.

 

[Shermana]

You must have missed several posts ,this is about what created the Ozone.

If Extremeophiles didn't create Oxygen, then they are irrelevant to the conversation.

If you are harping on the use of the word "No life before the Ozone", then please prove that these Extremophiles did in fact exist without the Ozone, with quotes. But this is about what kind of Oxygen-creating life produced the Ozone. Telling me that this is why Creationists get laughed at does not count as a substitute answer.

 

[Jose Fly]

You must have missed several posts ,this is about what created the Ozone.

And I suppose you think a god did it?

 

[idav]

How is ozone layer formed by oxygen during lightning



I love the sound of that quote, let me repeat that: ". Ozone formed in the lower atmosphere does not survive the time it takes (on the order of months) to diffuse all the way up to the "ozone layer"

How is ozone produced during lightning

HowStuffWorks "Formation of the Ozone Layer"

Ninety percent of the atmospheric ozone is in the earth's stratosphere -- the altitude starting at six to 11 miles (9.6 to 17.7 kilometers) above the earth and extending to about 30 miles (48.3 kilometers) above the earth

The oxygen comes from the earth where else would it come from? Does it need help by spirits to get up there or what? Derail much?

 

[painted wolf]

Algae and cyanobacteria in extreme ... - Google Books

Bacteria Produce Oxygen, Even Without Light - Science News - redOrbit

Biologist's Find Alters The Bacteria Family Tree

Extremophile Bacteria Transform CO2 and Light Into Fuel Better Than Photosynthesis | Biodiesel | The Green Optimistic

wa:do

 

[Shermana]

Algae and cyanobacteria in extreme ... - Google Books

Bacteria Produce Oxygen, Even Without Light - Science News - redOrbit

Biologist's Find Alters The Bacteria Family Tree

Extremophile Bacteria Transform CO2 and Light Into Fuel Better Than Photosynthesis | Biodiesel | The Green Optimistic

wa:do

Can you provide a quote from any of those that prove that they could exist in pre-Ozone environments with the appropriate UV_intensity in consideration?