The Strange Thing about Creationism

[Gunfingers]

It's impressive that you could read all of those in three minutes, but I don't think it qualifies as "speed reading" if you come out of it with no comprehension of the material.

 

[outhouse]

How is ozone layer formed by oxygen during lightning



I love the sound of that quote, let me repeat that: ". Ozone formed in the lower atmosphere does not survive the time it takes (on the order of months) to diffuse all the way up to the "ozone layer"

your not worth debating

your talking about present lightning in present time with a present ozone layer


are you that ignorant to realize the atmosphere was different 4B years ago????


I also stated it was a contributing factor

I also provided a link showing how ozone was formed

YOU ARE POE

 

[outhouse]

We are all waisting time

Its a previously banned member, and now its POE

 

[JustWondering2]

That link says that Lightning can produce the Ozone in the Ozone layer? Please produce a quote. I would like to see a single reference that attributes the Ozone layer to lightning.

Post Edit: I'm repeating again that sentence from that link, I should throw it into a Dubstep song.

I can only wonder if you have any idea how much lightning would be needed to create the Ozone, all at once, for it to survive the transition to the "Ozone layer".

OK here ya go Hard Head.

Lightning: FAQ

"Until recently, most studies of ozone and lightning have focused on measuring the production of nitrogen oxides in the immediate vicinity of storms. However, the resulting ozone has a long lifetime in the upper troposphere (a few miles above the ground), so it could be carried over long distances. According to an NCAR analysis, ozone from storms across southern Africa is being transported by the subtropical jet stream eastward to Australia, where it causes significant rises in ozone levels in the upper troposphere."

Study shows lightning adds to ozone level

"Lightning may be Mother Nature's greatest show on Earth, but scientists now know it can produce significant amounts of ozone and other gases that affect air chemistry.

Researcher Renyi Zhang of Texas A&M University helped lead a study on the impact of lightning, and the results are surprising: Lightning can be responsible for as much as 90 percent of the nitrogen oxides in the summer and at the same time increase ozone levels as much as 30 percent in the free troposphere, the area that extends 3-8 miles above the Earth's surface.The amount of ozone and nitrogen oxides that lightning creates is greater than those created by human activities in that level of the atmosphere, the study shows."

Etc, Etc, just do a Google search for "ozone from lightning" and read for yourself.

 

[Shermana]

OK here ya go Hard Head.

Lightning: FAQ

"Until recently, most studies of ozone and lightning have focused on measuring the production of nitrogen oxides in the immediate vicinity of storms. However, the resulting ozone has a long lifetime in the upper troposphere (a few miles above the ground), so it could be carried over long distances. According to an NCAR analysis, ozone from storms across southern Africa is being transported by the subtropical jet stream eastward to Australia, where it causes significant rises in ozone levels in the upper troposphere."

Study shows lightning adds to ozone level

"Lightning may be Mother Nature's greatest show on Earth, but scientists now know it can produce significant amounts of ozone and other gases that affect air chemistry.

Researcher Renyi Zhang of Texas A&M University helped lead a study on the impact of lightning, and the results are surprising: Lightning can be responsible for as much as 90 percent of the nitrogen oxides in the summer and at the same time increase ozone levels as much as 30 percent in the free troposphere, the area that extends 3-8 miles above the Earth's surface.The amount of ozone and nitrogen oxides that lightning creates is greater than those created by human activities in that level of the atmosphere, the study shows."

Etc, Etc, just do a Google search for "ozone from lightning" and read for yourself.

Once again, read what I posted about the "Ozone Layer" as opposed to "Ozone level".

 

[gnostic]

I often see the Evolution vs Creation debate, but one thing I cannot help notice is that Creationism seems to be less about proving a creation, and more about proving the Bible's account of creation as literally true.

True.

What they failed to understand is that their creationism, as given in Genesis, is borrowed myths, by older civilisations or cultures. The ancient Israelites had no better understanding about how the Earth was formed or where life originated, so they invent a deity that supposedly created life.

We have far more understanding now about biology, geology, astronomy, etc, and yet we continue to embrace ancient belief and superstition and miracles that have no real bearing on real life.

But they are also trying to prove evolution to be "false"....unsuccessfully...repeatably.

What they don't understand is that evolution is not about the "origin of life". That's what most creationists continually misunderstand. No. They are wrong, and they will continue to be wrong as long as they don't grasp the most fundamental of evolutionary theory.

Evolution is about "changes" over time.

Changes by biological, environmental and even geographical factors.

And time is not so much in minutes, hours, days or years, but in large number of generations.

So evolution is about finding why 2 or more species are different, and finding where they had common ancestry. Hence, evolution is about origin of species, and not their misunderstanding of "origin of life".

 

[JustWondering2]

Once again, read what I posted about the "Ozone Layer" as opposed to "Ozone level".

Once again face reality and stop taking your old book written by goat herders 2000 years ago as the absolute truth!

Did you know that an atmosphere of water vapor alone (w/o as much ozone as today) will filter a significant amount of UV from the Sun? Plus if Earth was much warmer 4b years ago there would be a lot more water vapor in the atmosphere to filter even more UV?

 

[Shermana]

Once again face reality and stop taking your old book written by goat herders 2000 years ago as the absolute truth!

Did you know that an atmosphere of water vapor alone (w/o as much ozone as today) will filter a significant amount of UV from the Sun? Plus if Earth was much warmer 4b years ago there would be a lot more water vapor in the atmosphere to filter even more UV?

Please show proof how much the atmosphere really would have filtered.

 

[idav]

You must enjoy really proving how Macroevolutionists use murky word definitions to get around the specifics like "Ozone layer" and "Ozone level". Please show proof how much the atmosphere really would have filtered.

Oh the irony!

 

[Shermana]

I thought the sun was supposed to be dimmer back in the day and thus less hot? Please show how it was warmer.

 

[painted wolf]

Can you provide a quote from any of those that prove that they could exist in pre-Ozone environments with the appropriate UV_intensity in consideration?

You didn't bother to read any of them did you... :tsk:

Methane and Sulfur chemoautotrophs live primarily near deep sea vents and other areas of the deep oceans. They use Methane and Sulfur to produce food and as a byproduct Oxygen.

Also, why is it that more UV is bad for critters that use UV to produce food?
All you are doing is pushing the zone of cyanobacterial photosynthesis deeper into the water column.... not out of existence.

Water is actually very good at filtering out UV radiation, which is why the photic zone in the ocean is so very thin... making it bigger doesn't help you at all.

Here is the current penetration of UV (in clear water, turbulent water will reduce it even more)

The Blue, the Bluer, and the Bluest Ocean — GES DISC: Goddard Earth Sciences, Data & Information Services Center

Again.... why are you making it even easier for photosynthetic life again?

wa:do

 

[Shermana]

And could those autotrophs produce the necessary amounts of O2 for the Ozone layer? Is there a site that says that this is how it happened? At least you're not attributing it to lightning. The current theory is that the BGA grew near the surface. As well, according to this, UV penetrates far deeper than currently thought.

https://sites.google.com/site/flyonahook/home/fly-tying/colour-1/uv-in-water Evidence of UV going to at least 40m (which would be twice as long as on your graph). Keep in mind that all these levels are with the Ozone already in place. If the intensity is between 2-10x without it, does that mean it goes 2-10x deeper or even exponentially?

The current theory states that BGA formed near the surface, why is this so, and what is "Near the surface"?

 

[painted wolf]

And could those autotrophs produce the necessary amounts of O2 for the Ozone layer? Is there a site that says that this is how it happened? At least you're not attributing it to lightning. The current theory is that the BGA grew near the surface. As well, according to this, UV penetrates far deeper than currently thought.

Not "far deeper"... the Ocean is miles deep.
Plus your opening question is disingenuous. They don't need to produce the whole thing, and if you thought about the issue logically you would know that.

https://sites.google.com/site/flyonahook/home/fly-tying/colour-1/uv-in-water Evidence of UV going to at least 40m (which would be twice as long as on your graph). Keep in mind that all these levels are with the Ozone already in place. If the intensity is between 2-10x without it, does that mean it goes 2-10x deeper or even exponentially?

You noticed I mentioned that the penetration also varies with water turbidity. Salt content and so on.

The current theory states that BGA formed near the surface, why is this so, and what is "Near the surface"?

Not on the bottom.... again, it's a disingenuous question.

wa:do

 

[Gunfingers]

Don't forget to tip, Shermana, 'cuz you just got served!

 

[Shermana]

How much was their contribution in proportion to the supposed Cyanobacteria which supposedly grew at

So like I said, if the pre-Ozone intensity was 2-10x, would that mean 2-10x greater the penetration. At what depth can Cyanobacteria even exist to successfully Photosynthesize, and to what degree would the Chemoautotrophs have significantly contributed to the permanence of the Ozone layer.

 

[Shermana]

Don't forget to tip, Shermana, 'cuz you just got served!

Not really, the waitress forgot to bring the order of "2-10x the intensity of the UV in pre-ozone level" soup. Possibly exponential.

 

[painted wolf]

Chemoautotrophs live at the bottom of the ocean. Generally between 10,000 and 30,000 ft. deep.

All they have to do is get the ball rolling, they don't have to form the whole thing.

Even if you extend UV penetration to 4,000 ft or more, then all you do is move the photic zone of the ocean down.... you don't eliminate it.

I'm starting to think you either aren't paying to what I'm saying or choosing to ignore it.

wa:do

 

[Shermana]

Chemoautotrophs live at the bottom of the ocean. Generally between 10,000 and 30,000 ft. deep.

All they have to do is get the ball rolling, they don't have to form the whole thing.

Even if you extend UV penetration to 4,000 ft or more, then all you do is move the photic zone of the ocean down.... you don't eliminate it.

I'm starting to think you either aren't paying to what I'm saying or choosing to ignore it.
wa:do

I think you're hiding behind the fact that you're relying on the autotrophs for more of a significant share of the Ozone than in reality. At any depth, no amount of non-extremophile life could exist without the Ozone no matter how far it penetrated, anything in the "Photic" zone even at 1300m if it were at 10x the intensity would still not be able to exist at sufficient quantities to produce the O2.

They've done NASA studies that confirm ocean plant life would die even at 1/2-2/3 of the current ozone gone.

 

[Gunfingers]

Post a link saying chemoautotrophs can't account for any significant contribution to the ozone layer. Make sure to include quotes from the links.

 

[painted wolf]

Please link to this NASA study.... and make sure they talk about chemoautotroph extrmeophiles.

wa:do