The Teachings of God/Allah

[stvdv]

We're all entitled to our opinions

Makes always a good start when posting on RF

The leader of Christianity's largest and oldest denomination, Catholicism, certainly agrees that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians.

I would have been surprised IF He had said anything differently, as the Bible makes it clear that there is only 1 God, hence I am always surprised IF Christians claim that there are more Gods (implied by them when telling others that their God is different from the Christian God)

 

[SalixIncendium]

Probably as many as their are believers, IMO, but at the very least, there are a number of categories of Gods:

- Trinitarian (Western flavour)
- Trinitarian (Eastern flavour)
- Unitarian
- Mormon-style "Godhead"
- Adoptionist
- Macedonianist
- Marcionite
- Docetist
- etc., etc.



Well, 1 <> 3, for starters.

... but if we're talking about things I know and don't know, one thing I don't know is whether there really was the Abraham of the "God of Abraham."

How do we know for sure that these aren't the same God and appear as different gods based on individual perspective?

 

[SalixIncendium]

When I ask 10 people to describe god and I get 11 incompatible answers, I know they are not speaking of the same entity.

Ever play the telephone game?

Personal interpretations are not evidence for multiple gods.

If I ask 10 people to go to watch someone give a speech, and then I ask those 10 people to describe the speaker and what the message was, do you think I'll get 10 identical responses?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Does Arabic have a distinction between "god" and "God"?
("god" being a generic term and "God" being used as a proper name.)

Good question.

@firedragon? @Conscious thoughts?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm not certain on what the term for a generic god would be, but I know the term Allah is used because it cannot be made plural.

I would imagine there would be an Arabic term to reference gods of other religions such as Hinduism, Paganism, etc.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Good question.

@firedragon? @Conscious thoughts?

The word in arabic is Allah. Monotheistic "the one God Allah"
No smaller gods only one Allah

If someone does not believe in or follow Allah they are of course free to believe in or follow who they see as their God.
Muslims or followers of Allah are not to worship or follow other Gods (deities)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How do we know for sure that these aren't the same God and appear as different gods based on individual perspective?

I don't see why that would matter.

Even if the reason that two god-concepts are different is "individual perspective," they're, well, different.

It seems that you're giving a hypothetical reason why there are many different versions of "God," not contradicting the fact that there are.

 

[Heyo]

Ever play the telephone game?

Personal interpretations are not evidence for multiple gods.

If I ask 10 people to go to watch someone give a speech, and then I ask those 10 people to describe the speaker and what the message was, do you think I'll get 10 identical responses?

No, eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable.
What I would expect is that those people would eventually agree on a single version after discussing it for 2000 years - at least if that speech really happened.

 

[firedragon]

Good question.

@firedragon? @Conscious thoughts?

@Heyo

Yes brother. I think the words Allah and ilah is what you are looking for.

God would be Ho Theos or The God (The Divinity).
ilah is god or the generic word for divinity or deity. As the Qur'an says not to take your property/wealth as your ilah. It also tells you not to take your own ego/wishful thinking or Havah as your ilah.

Allah means The God or The divinity giving it a connotation of "The" like "The Mother". Only one.

Cheers.

 

[Brian2]

Of course, this ("the truth" and "knowing what God did or did not do") is all in "your humble opinion", right?

It is all in my faith that God is not a liar.
It is all in the denial of the eternal covenant that Jesus was sent to bring, by those religions that tell us that the same God denies this eternal covenant, the everlasting gospel that the Bible proclaims.

 

[stvdv]

It is all in my faith that God is not a liar.

I fully agree. Here you could have said "It is a fact that God is not a liar", no need to add it is an opinion/belief

It is all in the denial of the eternal covenant that Jesus was sent to bring, by those religions that tell us that the same God denies this eternal covenant, the everlasting gospel that the Bible proclaims.

Thank you for this, that clarifies everything. Now I understand why you replied like that.

IF those people do say what you say THEN they make a huge mistake

Telling such a claim to you is very bad karma they create

Never take such people serious
Who belittle your Faith
@stvdvRF

 

[stvdv]

It is all in my faith that God is not a liar.
It is all in the denial of the eternal covenant that Jesus was sent to bring, by those religions that tell us that the same God denies this eternal covenant, the everlasting gospel that the Bible proclaims.

Those people just behave arrogantly, who told you that they know what God denies or Grants to you (or others)

Confront them with this fact (that they behave arrogantly), should make them think twice doing it again

 

[Brian2]

Never take such people serious
Who belittle your FaithRF

It is whole religions that claim to believe the Bible and actually say it is not true. It can be infuriating when this is pointed out to them and they can't even see that is what they are doing.
It is amazing how people can be blind like that. Not us of course
I cannot afford to take it seriously however, esp on a forum like this.
It certainly can however get me thinking seriously about whether my faith is true or not.

 

[Brian2]

Those people just behave arrogantly, who told you that they know what God denies or Grants to you (or others)

Confront them with this fact (that they behave arrogantly), should make them think twice doing it again

I do in my own way tell them that, but I know that to them I am the arrogant one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it is probably true.

 

[stvdv]

I do in my own way tell them that, but I know that to them I am the arrogant one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it is probably true.

IMO:
The trick is to write in a respectful, non belittling nor arrogant way, that what they do is just plain arrogance
Another trick is to not defend yourself or Jesus (He is perfectly able to defend himself), as you end up in useless yes/no
I mean, if someone makes such a dumb arrogant blunder, then better use it to correct their implied errors all at the same strike

The arrogant are know for not listening nor being reasonable anyway, so why explain things?

We have a saying in Holland "Arrogance blinds a man"
First things first. First correct their tone, because only then they become reasonable

 

[stvdv]

I do in my own way tell them that, but I know that to them I am the arrogant one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it is probably true.

Arrogance is one of the most difficult to give up, actually I think it is impossible, as "arrogance" is defined as "knowing it better" to start with

Hence the Wise have declared that "arrogance" is the biggest obstacle on the spiritual path; hence Jesus "become like little children"

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes He is.

Jesus was a flesh body, Jesus as Christ, the Son of God says the flesh amounts to nothing. Science will confirm that fact. It is Spirit that gives and is true life.

The flesh of Jesus who walked this earth 2000 years ago, will not be seen again.

The way we see that Jesus is the Christ is to know that He is Annointed by the Holy Spirit which comes down from Heaven and in Like manner Accends up to heaven.

That is how Christ is the First and the Last and how Christ has spoken in Messages past and Messages to come.

Nothing there which denies that Jesus is YHWH, along with His Father and the Holy Spirit.

That is Because Jesus the Christ is One with all Mesengers and One with God.

They are all we can know of God in Attributes but they are not God in Essence. The Holy Spirit Itself is created, by God the Most Great Spirit. Jesus, born of the Holy Spirit was born like a perfect polished mirror, when we look at Jesus we see naught but the reflection of the attributes of God, but we can not see the Essence.

Yes I know.

It is for good reason and in this age of advanced knowledge, knowing Jesus in the flesh is not God, in no way takes away from Jesus as the Christ.

In fact it enables us to embrace the return as promised. It allows us to truly Love Jesus, the Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

Thanks, very interesting.
So it seems that Allah is not the same as YHVH but may be identical to Eloah. Just how does Allah then relate to God, who is an amalgamation of Eloah and YHVH?

I mean that the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) uses a lot of terms for the same thing, in different contexts. Sometimes it uses to word El, some times Elohim, sometimes Eloah and most famously the "personal name" YHWH.

What I mean to signify here is that Allah is related to a similarly singular term (Eloah) in the Tanakh. The difference here is that in Islam, there is no personal name for God. Allah is just the sigular term in arabic (the language that the God was revealed in and of it's initial audience). The notion of "God" having a personal name is an absurdity in the Islamic view.

What "YHWH" represents in the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) however, is the same thing as "Allah". Obviously the difference being that the Hebrew Bible is written from the POV of scribes/priests, whereas the Qur'an is written from the POV of "God" itself.

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

Nothing there which denies that Jesus is YHWH, along with His Father and the Holy Spirit.

You Christians with your 'shifting the goalposts" fallacy.

In your minds, you just try to shift the most uncompromising monotheism to being "actually when it says YHWH is One, there is no other and YHWH won't give his glory to another........when it speaks of YHWH it actually means the Trinity, yeah that's right!"

If I want that kind of logic, I'll go to the Mormons because they're honest about it.

 

[stvdv]

There is a reason why you're mocked and ridiculed by Jews and Muslims for believing in a mangod-superhero deity in three parts.

Can't be a good reason when Jews and Muslims mock others just for their belief; at least it tells me they are not Wise