The Trinity Concept

[Bereanz]

That remark was uncivil and hostile? You've got to be kidding. Seriously, I'm starting to think that you're going to consider anything I say that contradicts what you believe to be uncivil and hostile. I don't think one person in a hundred on this forum would have thought that remark was rude in any way. Well, maybe one.

I see. So not only do you not consider me to be a Christian, you don't consider the world's 1 billion+ members of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy to be Christians either, I guess, since they definitely do not rely solely on the Bible for their doctrines. All you're doing here is trying to define "Christian" according to a standard that includes only people who believe exactly as you do. There is nothing in the Bible itself that says the Bible should be our only source for doctrine, and prior to the Protestant Reformation, well over 99% of the world's Christians relied heavily on Holy Tradition for many of their beliefs. Are you saying there were no Christians around until the doctrine of Sola Scriptura was developed?

Uh... I thought we were talking about the Trinity. And my point is that I am as well-qualified to discuss it as you are.

I don't believe He is God the Father, but I believe He shares the title of "God" with His Father.

I suspect it might take even longer than that at the rate we're going.

By the look of this and all the questions you have posed in this post, in the five years and the close to 20,000 posts you have made, it looks patently obvious you haven't discussed these topics with a Christian yet. Given you're attitude I'm not surprised as to why. As I said a Christian and Mormon involved in a debate about Jesus Christ and the Bible is as appealing to me as watching worms feed. All the hairy chest.

 

[Clear]

Katzpur;
I do not think you are going to be able to have a discussion with someone who is going to tell you what you believe; announce your beliefs incorrectly, and then not believe you when you try to correct them as to what you really believe.


Madhuri:
It should be obvious that there may be as many different theories among “trinitarian” christians as there are among “non-trinitarian” christians, some of whom are absolutely committed to the theory they believe in as Bereanz seems to be to his personal theory of belief. However, the claim that millions of Christians who disagree with one’s personal theory are heretics, does not help one understand the Opening Posts question : “So what does it mean to not believe in the trinity? “

Bereanz, has not described the specific nature of trinity according to his personal theory, but if Bereanz’ IS a modalist, then is it simply yet another model that attempts to describe the type of unity that exists between God the Father and his son and the Holy Ghost. As with just about any theory, others condemn Bereanz’ theory as heresy and will assume he is doomed to punishment for his confusion. This sort of situation is a religious mess.

For example, Theopedia describes modalism and then condemns that theory as well. Modalism is described as :

...“the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons ...According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Rather, He is one person and has merely manifested himself in these three modes at various times. Modalism thus denies the basic distinctiveness and coexistence of the three persons of the Trinity. ”

Theopedia then mentions that

...“Modalism was condemned by Tertullian (c. 213, Tertullian Against Praxeas 1, in Ante Nicene Fathers, vol. 3). Also known as Sabellianism, it was condemned as heresy by Dionysius, bishop of Rome (c. 262). “

It is a case of christians condeming christians (an anti-christianity christianity)

Even the article in Theopedia reveals it is NOT neutral because it condemns two large christian groups because they hold to the modalist theory.


It seems to me that most Christians believe in God the Father of Jesus; they believe in Jesus as the Son of his father and they believe in the Holy Ghost and to this extent, they believe that there is a relationship between these three references. The difficulty and disagreements lie in the many theories describing in what way they may be said to be DIFFERENT and in what way they may be said to be the SAME.


Clear

Madhuri, good luck in trying to find your answer.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur;
I do not think you are going to be able to have a discussion with someone who is going to tell you what you believe; announce your beliefs incorrectly, and then not believe you when you try to correct them as to what you really believe.

Obviously. And so far, he hasn't even attempted to actually answer my questions or address the points I brought up. My guess is he's simply not up to the challenge.

 

[Bereanz]

Katzpur;
I do not think you are going to be able to have a discussion with someone who is going to tell you what you believe; announce your beliefs incorrectly, and then not believe you when you try to correct them as to what you really believe.


Madhuri:
It should be obvious that there may be as many different theories among “trinitarian” christians as there are among “non-trinitarian” christians, some of whom are absolutely committed to the theory they believe in as Bereanz seems to be to his personal theory of belief. However, the claim that millions of Christians who disagree with one’s personal theory are heretics, does not help one understand the Opening Posts question : “So what does it mean to not believe in the trinity? “

Bereanz, has not described the specific nature of trinity according to his personal theory, but if Bereanz’ IS a modalist, then is it simply yet another model that attempts to describe the type of unity that exists between God the Father and his son and the Holy Ghost. As with just about any theory, others condemn Bereanz’ theory as heresy and will assume he is doomed to punishment for his confusion. This sort of situation is a religious mess.

For example, Theopedia describes modalism and then condemns that theory as well. Modalism is described as :

Theopedia then mentions that It is a case of christians condeming christians (an anti-christianity christianity)

Even the article in Theopedia reveals it is NOT neutral because it condemns two large christian groups because they hold to the modalist theory.


It seems to me that most Christians believe in God the Father of Jesus; they believe in Jesus as the Son of his father and they believe in the Holy Ghost and to this extent, they believe that there is a relationship between these three references. The difficulty and disagreements lie in the many theories describing in what way they may be said to be DIFFERENT and in what way they may be said to be the SAME.


Clear

Madhuri, good luck in trying to find your answer.

Yeah good luck Madhuri - And HAppy New year, but in parting from the ever dimming light of 2010 and this thread my advice would be not take advice as to what the trinity is from Mormons and or those about to convert to Mormonism.

 

[Bereanz]

Obviously. And so far, he hasn't even attempted to actually answer my questions or address the points I brought up. My guess is he's simply not up to the challenge.

Your guess would be wrong, but thanks for being honest about the fact that you are being challenging. For the most part, your "points" are pointless and decidedly off topic.

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***

Thread closed for review.
​

 

[Diogenes_the_cynic]

Oh I have alot of concepts about the trinity.

I don't know why they don't focus on the ghost more, given she's the one you can't blaspheme. I mean... I don't remmeber preists reading bible passages much when I went to church about what she said. Kinda bothers me.

That was a half joke by the way.

 

[ninerbuff]

Just think of god, jesus and holy spirit as Sybil.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Oh I have alot of concepts about the trinity.
I don't know why they don't focus on the ghost more, given she's the one you can't blaspheme. I mean... I don't remmeber preists reading bible passages much when I went to church about what she said. Kinda bothers me.
That was a half joke by the way.

In Greek grammar rules the masculine is even used for: 'it'.
That is why the so-called ghost, God's holy spirit, can be translated as: he.

No where in Scripture is God or Jesus referred to as: 'it'.
Yet at Numbers [11vs16,17] The LORD [YHWH] will take of the spirit and will put 'it' upon them.....

Please note Rom. 8vs16,26 because there God's spirit is referred to as 'itself'.

Job [27v3] had God's spirit in his nose.
Seems highly unlikely Job had a person in his nostrils.

Just as highly unlikely the people of Acts [2v4] were all filled with a person.

Using the masculine of Greek grammar rules has nothing to do with doctrine.
So, how can the focus be on a person [ghost] when, how could God's spirit according to Scripture be a person?

 

[Pegg]

Yeah good luck Madhuri - And HAppy New year, but in parting from the ever dimming light of 2010 and this thread my advice would be not take advice as to what the trinity is from Mormons and or those about to convert to Mormonism.

i thought the OP was asking what it means to NOT be a trinitarian... in that case a mormon would be the right person to ask

for myself it simply means that Jesus is one of Gods spirit sons...not God himself.

They are both individuals but the holy spirit is not an individual, it is not a person, it is Gods power and nothing more.

I am able to focus on who the God of the hebrew scriptures, the Creator, is. The Hebrew scriptures are all about a God named YWHY and his promise to send a savior into the world. By not believing in the trinity i understand that it is the Creator who orchestrated Jesus birth, death and resurrection for the purpose of saving mankind from sin and death.

As a non trinitarian christian I do not worship Jesus & do not believe he is my God. I have one God and his name is YWHY, Jehovah, The Almighty, The Creator. I have one King and his name is Jesus Christ, The Messiah and it is through Jesus that I can come to have a relationship with Jehovah and for that I owe Jesus my life.

thats what it means to me. It does not make me a heretic, it does not make me an apostate, it does not make me an antichrist.