The trinity is false - I have proof

[Trailblazer]

Sure but a ray from God is not God anymore than spit from a soldiers mouth onto a peasant is the soldier ... just as a ray from Sun is not the Sun.

I agree, but I never said that I believe the Holy Spirit is God.
I believe the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that comes to us from God, like rays of the Sun come to us from the Sun.

In Scripture Jesus is depicted as a Man .. first and foremost .. in the original story. In the original story even the disciples do not believe Jesus is the Son of God .. never mind the Most High God . To the Disciples in Mark .. Jesus is a Man. The family of Jesus does not believe Jesus to be divine .. they believe him their Son who has gone off on a spiritual journy .. but one who no one takes seriously as a Guru of any kind in his home town.

John the Baptist believes Jesus to be a Man .. .. a man "Annointed by God" - in the way of David .. and King Cyrus .. both who were men "Messiahs" because that is what a Messiah is .. one annointed by God to do great things .. one adopted by God to do great things.

Jesus enters the story as a man of 30 ... who is adopted by God upon his Baptism .. as a man he is sent through ritual testing .. only after which the divine spark will be activated .. similar to the ritual trial the Pharoah would undergo .. a ritual which had some danger.

Yes, Jesus was a man in the original story but Paul made him into Christ our Savior.
Below is a short excerpt from a longer article I posted several years ago which can be read on the link below.

"That the figure of the Nazarene, as delivered to us in Mark’s Gospel, is decisively different from the pre-existent risen Christ proclaimed by Paul, is something long recognized by thinkers like Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Herder and Goethe, to mention only a few .....

Paul, who had never seen Jesus, showed great reserve towards the Palestinian traditions regarding Jesus’ life. (230) The historical Jesus and his earthly life are without significance for Paul. In all his epistles the name ‘Jesus’ occurs only 15 times, the title ‘Christ’ 378 times. In Jesus’s actual teaching he shows extraordinarily little interest. It is disputed whether in all his epistles he makes two, three or four references to sayings by Jesus. (231) It is not Jesus’ teaching, which he cannot himself have heard at all (short of hearing it in a vision), that is central to his own mission, but the person of the Redeemer and His death on the Cross."

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

This is an excerpt from the book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer. This section explains how Paul changed the Christianity of Jesus. It is important to note that the views expressed by this author reflect his individual perspective and...

www.religiousforums.com

The Nature of the divinity of Jesus or if Jesus was divine at all .. was a hotly debated subject but .. no one was arguing this divinity was at the same level of the Most High .. that Jesus was "The Father" -- even those in the 2cnd century that argued that Jesus was an Aeon .. and did not actually have physical substance ..were not claiming Jesus was " El Elyon - God most high" .. God of Abraham. . as you go on to affirm .

I think that the nature of Jesus was hotly debates because people could see that Jesus was a man yet more than a man, and they didn't know what to make of that, so at a certain point they decided in councils that Jesus was God in spite of the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God.

I believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God but certainly not God incarnate, and that he had a twofold nature, one nature human, the other divine. That makes a lot more sense than what Trinitarian Christians believe, that Jesus was fully man and fully God, which is logically impossible.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 64-69

 

[learner Daniel]

Paul was not a disciple .. and he did not know The Word - least not that he told us about.

Jesus was The Word .. but you seem to know naught what that means .. to see Jesus is to see the word of God -- to Hear Jesus .. is to hear the word of God ... "He who hates Me - hates the Father" He who Hates "THe Word" by definition hates the father .. as "The Word" is the Word of the Father.

Then put up an unrelated passage from Matt -- but once again .. "The Logos" is the conduit between man and God. Mistranslated as "The Word" in John 1 . you can not access "The Word of God" .. but through The Logos .. and the only acces you have to God .. is The Logos.

one needs to understand the difference between "The Logos" .. and "The Word" in order to make sense of the John / Matt .. and do keep in mind that God is the author of confusion in this story .. at least that is what the Logos has to say - so do not be upset that you were misunderstanding these passages as how could one having understanding without having the Key .. the Keys to the Kingdom !

"Paul was not a disciple .. and he did not know The Word"

He came to Jesus in the book of acts on a road.

He was a scholar of the OT

2 Timothy 4:13
When I was in Troas, I left my coat there with Carpus. So when you come, bring it to me. Also, bring my books. The books written on parchment are the ones I need.

 

[learner Daniel]

The term Trinity was first used by the church father Tertullian in the third century AD. The doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out in 325 AD at the council of Nicea. Philosophy had played a part in the development of the Trinity.

Beware lest any man spoil (ruin) you through philosophy and vain deceit after the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Colossians 2:8-10

So what about philosophy.

 

[learner Daniel]

Please show me some scriptures where the apostles said it was attributes. Because man has some pretty horrible attributes. Please explain how Moses spoke face to face with God. Exodus 33:11

The middle part of the verse isn't inaccurate. You just think it is, because you don't realize that it was YHWH himself there in that body.

BTW, read what YHWH said they would do in the Old Testament. Isaiah 45:21-23

Now read in the NT where it says: For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Messiah. For it is written (quoting Isaiah 45:23) As I live says YHWH, Every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Romans14:11
That's why every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is YHWH. Philippians 2:11

John the baptist (the voice in the wilderness) was supposed to prepare the way for YHWH and Make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 Now I ask you - Who did John prepare the way for and who showed up?
Say to the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Isaiah 40:9

If you can prove that was an alteration made by man that's one thing. But to discard it because it doesn't fit in with your beliefs is bad. Anyone that adds to, or takes away from God's word is going to be in trouble. You should mold your beliefs to the word, not mold the word to your beliefs.

What is the word harlic? theophany

 

[learner Daniel]

I agree, but I never said that I believe the Holy Spirit is God.
I believe the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that comes to us from God, like rays of the Sun come to us from the Sun.

Yes, Jesus was a man in the original story but Paul made him into Christ our Savior.
Below is a short excerpt from a longer article I posted several years ago which can be read on the link below.

"That the figure of the Nazarene, as delivered to us in Mark’s Gospel, is decisively different from the pre-existent risen Christ proclaimed by Paul, is something long recognized by thinkers like Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Herder and Goethe, to mention only a few .....

Paul, who had never seen Jesus, showed great reserve towards the Palestinian traditions regarding Jesus’ life. (230) The historical Jesus and his earthly life are without significance for Paul. In all his epistles the name ‘Jesus’ occurs only 15 times, the title ‘Christ’ 378 times. In Jesus’s actual teaching he shows extraordinarily little interest. It is disputed whether in all his epistles he makes two, three or four references to sayings by Jesus. (231) It is not Jesus’ teaching, which he cannot himself have heard at all (short of hearing it in a vision), that is central to his own mission, but the person of the Redeemer and His death on the Cross."

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

This is an excerpt from the book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer. This section explains how Paul changed the Christianity of Jesus. It is important to note that the views expressed by this author reflect his individual perspective and...

www.religiousforums.com

I think that the nature of Jesus was hotly debates because people could see that Jesus was a man yet more than a man, and they didn't know what to make of that, so at a certain point they decided in councils that Jesus was God in spite of the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God.

I believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God but certainly not God incarnate, and that he had a twofold nature, one nature human, the other divine. That makes a lot more sense than what Trinitarian Christians believe, that Jesus was fully man and fully God, which is logically impossible.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 64-69

John 1:17
That is, the law was given to us through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


John 4:25
The woman said, “I know that the Messiah is coming.” (He is the one called Christ.) “When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

1. Luke 1:69
   He has given us a powerful Saviorfrom the family of his servant David.
   
   
2. Luke 2:11
   Today your Savior was born in David’s town. He is the Messiah, the Lord.

 

[Sargonski]

"Paul was not a disciple .. and he did not know The Word"

He came to Jesus in the book of acts on a road.

He was a scholar of the OT

2 Timothy 4:13
When I was in Troas, I left my coat there with Carpus. So when you come, bring it to me. Also, bring my books. The books written on parchment are the ones I need.

I missed this post - apologies. Let us not include Pious Fraud in with credible scripture but what matter this passage to Paul not being a disciple nor knowing "The Word"

"The Word" is the word of Jesus .. and Paul never met nor heard Jesus while Jesus was wondering the earth . In 7 books in the NT written by Paul we are told almost nothing of the life of Jesus nor of his teachings "the word". Being a scholar of the OT tells us nothing about the life of Jesus nor his teachings ?

So .. in general .. if we are looking for scripture to find things out about Jesus .. Paul is not the best place to look .. and in case of idiological contradiction or disagreement of any sort beween Pauline scripture and Mark . or Matt .. we should always default to Mark or Matt --where the teachigns of Jesus and ideology are given .... such as in the case of the "Sola Fide" scism - Protestantism on one side of the fence .. the majority - Catholic and Orthodox on the other .. one side going with wolf in sheeps clothing Brother Martin .. the other siding with the teachings of Jesus given in the Sermon on the Mount Matt 5-7.

Sola Fide" - is fancy latin term for the doctrine of "Salvation by Faith Alone" - Said by Jesus and James to be "Foolish"

 

[Sargonski]

I agree, but I never said that I believe the Holy Spirit is God.
I believe the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that comes to us from God, like rays of the Sun come to us from the Sun.

Yes, Jesus was a man in the original story but Paul made him into Christ our Savior.
Below is a short excerpt from a longer article I posted several years ago which can be read on the link below.

"That the figure of the Nazarene, as delivered to us in Mark’s Gospel, is decisively different from the pre-existent risen Christ proclaimed by Paul, is something long recognized by thinkers like Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Herder and Goethe, to mention only a few .....

Paul, who had never seen Jesus, showed great reserve towards the Palestinian traditions regarding Jesus’ life. (230) The historical Jesus and his earthly life are without significance for Paul. In all his epistles the name ‘Jesus’ occurs only 15 times, the title ‘Christ’ 378 times. In Jesus’s actual teaching he shows extraordinarily little interest. It is disputed whether in all his epistles he makes two, three or four references to sayings by Jesus. (231) It is not Jesus’ teaching, which he cannot himself have heard at all (short of hearing it in a vision), that is central to his own mission, but the person of the Redeemer and His death on the Cross."

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

This is an excerpt from the book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer. This section explains how Paul changed the Christianity of Jesus. It is important to note that the views expressed by this author reflect his individual perspective and...

www.religiousforums.com

I think that the nature of Jesus was hotly debates because people could see that Jesus was a man yet more than a man, and they didn't know what to make of that, so at a certain point they decided in councils that Jesus was God in spite of the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God.

I believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God but certainly not God incarnate, and that he had a twofold nature, one nature human, the other divine. That makes a lot more sense than what Trinitarian Christians believe, that Jesus was fully man and fully God, which is logically impossible.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 64-69

K .. so Jesus recieved a divine spark at his baptism .. actualized on completion of the ritual trial by the Tester of Souls -- Chief God on Earth.

Paul .. knows naught much about Jesus nor his teachings See post 246 above .. but is the founder of Christianity

The nature of Christ divinity "Hotly debated

------------------------------
You then speculate on the nature of Christs divinity but give very little support .. quoting a passage that makes little sense to the question .. "Jesus is more than a man" .. Well Great .. but we are kind of assuming that already in the question.. The question is "How much more" than a man .. and in what way ?

From scripture we read that Jesus is adopted by a God .. like Moses .. like Abraham .. like David .. Like Sargon of Agade .. and like so many other hero's throughout mythological history God's adopting humans not an uncommong thing in the beliefs of the people of the day .. This is what these people read on the first page of the first book Man of 30 (the normal age of adoption) adopted by a God .. in this narrative a spirit of the lord comes down from heaven .. (do we presume this is the same ""Spirit of the lord" that comes over Jephthah in the Old Testament ? I would say how could we do otherwise .. lest that was a spirit from a different God)

This Man recieves something from the Spirit ..recieves some kind ofd divine spark .. the key here i think is that this divine spark is something he did not have previously .. which is going to throw a rub into your hypothesis ..

Then .. like in all good Adoption stories .. the adoptee must go through a ritual trial prior that God spark becoming actualized . after which the adoptee goes on to do many wonderful things .. win many battles .. heal many sick .. work many wonders.

Some stories have Jesus exercizing God-like powers .. such as calming the storm that one time - but he is not shown as having powers as great as the Chief God on Earth .. tester of souls. .. and it is absolutely ridiculous that one would believe Jesus is depicted as having the power of the Most High God in the Synoptic Gospels.

The mission of Jesus is to speak Gods word to the lost sheep of Israel .. which I take to include all people. Jesus is a messenger from God .. "The Logos" .. emmissary between man and God .. who spoke Gods word through the Holy spirit. .. and thus is matters little what the Godly powers were .. sans that of telling us "The will of the Father" .. by which we can enter the Kingdom .. So the only thing that matters is "The Word" and figuring out the God from which that Word comes ... the "hallowed name" of the "Hallowed be thy Name"

Which brings up a tough question --- How is it that you do not know the "Hallowed Name" of the God you pray to .. follow .. worship ?

 

[Trailblazer]

This Man recieves something from the Spirit ..recieves some kind ofd divine spark .. the key here i think is that this divine spark is something he did not have previously .. which is going to throw a rub into your hypothesis ..

No, that doesn't throw a rub in my hypothesis. I believe that Jesus always had a twofold nature but I don't believe that Jesus received the divine spark until the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus during his baptism in the Jordan River.

Then .. like in all good Adoption stories .. the adoptee must go through a ritual trial prior that God spark becoming actualized . after which the adoptee goes on to do many wonderful things .. win many battles .. heal many sick .. work many wonders.

Some stories have Jesus exercizing God-like powers .. such as calming the storm that one time - but he is not shown as having powers as great as the Chief God on Earth .. tester of souls. .. and it is absolutely ridiculous that one would believe Jesus is depicted as having the power of the Most High God in the Synoptic Gospels.

I agree that it is absolutely ridiculous that one would believe Jesus had the same power of the Most High God.

The mission of Jesus is to speak Gods word to the lost sheep of Israel .. which I take to include all people. Jesus is a messenger from God .. "The Logos" .. emmissary between man and God .. who spoke Gods word through the Holy spirit. .. and thus is matters little what the Godly powers were .. sans that of telling us "The will of the Father" .. by which we can enter the Kingdom ..

I fully agree with all of the above. Jesus was a messenger from God, an emissary between man and God who spoke Gods word through the Holy spirit.

So the only thing that matters is "The Word" and figuring out the God from which that Word comes ... the "hallowed name" of the "Hallowed be thy Name"
Which brings up a tough question --- How is it that you do not know the "Hallowed Name" of the God you pray to .. follow .. worship ?

Why is important to know a particular name? God is known by many names.

 

[Sargonski]

No, that doesn't throw a rub in my hypothesis. I believe that Jesus always had a twofold nature but I don't believe that Jesus received the divine spark until the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus during his baptism in the Jordan River.

I agree that it is absolutely ridiculous that one would believe Jesus had the same power of the Most High God.

I fully agree with all of the above. Jesus was a messenger from God, an emissary between man and God who spoke Gods word through the Holy spirit.

Why is important to know a particular name? God is known by many names.

Good .. so agreed on Christs divinity .. That is something

The name is super important .. how else do you know which God you are worshiping .. which God's commands to follow ? .. and No .. God is not known by many names .. and epithet is NOT a name "God Most High" .. is not a name "The Father" is not a name "The Creator" is not a name "God Supreme" is not a name "Mountain God " El Shaddai is not a name ..

Lord YHWH is a name .. Lord BAAL is a name .. Lord Jealous is a name .. Lord EL is a name .. Lord Marduk is a name

So when you say God of Abraham ..... Which Lord are you referring to ? .. more importantly .. which Covenant .. Which Gods "WORD" do you follow.

You can't say "I follow Gods word" .. as this is completely meaningless outside the name of that God. .. YHWH's covenant is different than Jealous who is diffrerent from Marduk and so on.

The importance of the name of a God to the Israelites can not be under-stated .. the importance of distinguishing one God from the other in the Bible ..

Which God is the author of confunsion ? in the Bible .. Which God's commands will you follow .. Lord YHWH .. or Lord Jealous .. or Lord EL ? .. which God is the God of Abraham .. which is the God of Jesus .. which is the God of Moses .. which is the God of Cyrus the Messiah "Annointed one of God" .. annointed one of Which God ? which God was responsible for the famous cylyndar seal .. which God for Hamurrapi's Law Code ...

One is religiously lost without knowing who the God one worships is

 

[learner Daniel]

I missed this post - apologies. Let us not include Pious Fraud in with credible scripture but what matter this passage to Paul not being a disciple nor knowing "The Word"

"The Word" is the word of Jesus .. and Paul never met nor heard Jesus while Jesus was wondering the earth . In 7 books in the NT written by Paul we are told almost nothing of the life of Jesus nor of his teachings "the word". Being a scholar of the OT tells us nothing about the life of Jesus nor his teachings ?

So .. in general .. if we are looking for scripture to find things out about Jesus .. Paul is not the best place to look .. and in case of idiological contradiction or disagreement of any sort beween Pauline scripture and Mark . or Matt .. we should always default to Mark or Matt --where the teachigns of Jesus and ideology are given .... such as in the case of the "Sola Fide" scism - Protestantism on one side of the fence .. the majority - Catholic and Orthodox on the other .. one side going with wolf in sheeps clothing Brother Martin .. the other siding with the teachings of Jesus given in the Sermon on the Mount Matt 5-7.

Sola Fide" - is fancy latin term for the doctrine of "Salvation by Faith Alone" - Said by Jesus and James to be "Foolish"

Brother, it is very possible Paul heard Jesus teach in the Temple. Also, other Christians would share with him. He may have read the Gospels too.

 

[learner Daniel]

Paul may had watch it on the 700 club

 

[Trailblazer]

Good .. so agreed on Christs divinity .. That is something

The name is super important .. how else do you know which God you are worshiping .. which God's commands to follow ? .. and No .. God is not known by many names .. and epithet is NOT a name "God Most High" .. is not a name "The Father" is not a name "The Creator" is not a name "God Supreme" is not a name "Mountain God " El Shaddai is not a name ..

Lord YHWH is a name .. Lord BAAL is a name .. Lord Jealous is a name .. Lord EL is a name .. Lord Marduk is a name

Firstly, do you believe that Lord means God?
Secondly, if Christians say Lord Jesus aren't they saying that Jesus is God?
Thirdly, do you think these are all those Lords you referred to above by different names are different Gods that exist?

So when you say God of Abraham ..... Which Lord are you referring to ? .. more importantly .. which Covenant .. Which Gods "WORD" do you follow.

When I say the God of Abraham I am referring to the one true God, the God who I believe has revealed all the true religions through His messengers.
Since I am a Baha'i, I follow the Covenant of Baha'u'llah and I follow the Writings of Baha'u'llah, which I consider God's Word for this age.

You can't say "I follow Gods word" .. as this is completely meaningless outside the name of that God. .. YHWH's covenant is different than Jealous who is diffrerent from Marduk and so on.
The importance of the name of a God to the Israelites can not be under-stated .. the importance of distinguishing one God from the other in the Bible ..

I am not proficient in the Bible so I never even knew about all these different Gods until you mentioned them. Don't Jews believe that there is only one true God? I thought Christians believed that too.

Which God is the author of confunsion ? in the Bible .. Which God's commands will you follow .. Lord YHWH .. or Lord Jealous .. or Lord EL ? .. which God is the God of Abraham .. which is the God of Jesus .. which is the God of Moses .. which is the God of Cyrus the Messiah "Annointed one of God" .. annointed one of Which God ? which God was responsible for the famous cylyndar seal .. which God for Hamurrapi's Law Code ...

One is religiously lost without knowing who the God one worships is

I worship the God of Abraham, which I believe is the same God as the God of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
I don't know about any of those other Gods you mentioned, but since I believe there is only one true God, I believe those other Gods must be false Gods.

 

[Sargonski]

Brother, it is very possible Paul heard Jesus teach in the Temple. Also, other Christians would share with him. He may have read the Gospels too.

Paul died before the first gospel was written -- along with all the other disciples .. and it is highly unlikely he heard Jesus in the Temple as Jesus did not normally teach in the temple . can't remember any occasions but .. regardless .. If Paul did hear Jesus he does not tell us anything about it in his writings . Paul's writings tell us next to nothing about the life of Jesus nor his teachings ..

 

[Truthseeker]

Brother, it is very possible Paul heard Jesus teach in the Temple. Also, other Christians would share with him. He may have read the Gospels too.

Paul wrote his epistles before the Gospels were written all scholars agree. I know he knew the Christians, for instance he met Peter and James for sure.

 

[Truthseeker]

Paul's writings tell us next to nothing about the life of Jesus nor his teachings ..

That's true, but as I told @learner Daniel I know he met Peter and James.

 

[Sargonski]

That's true, but as I told @learner Daniel I know he met Peter and James.

Acts records a few meetings with the leaders of the Church of Jerusalem .. Brother of Jesus James - leader of the Church ..and Peter .. with whome Paul had Harsh words of disagreement. Paul is never a member of the Church of Jerusalem .. nor does he have much association with the group and definitely they have idiolgical differences all this we are told directly in Acts.. and indirectly in James .. calling the "Faith Alone" doctrine Foolish . parroting the prophetic words of Jesus in Matt 7 -revealing to us the identity of the wolves in sheeps clothing who will follow him and blaspheme "The Word" .. that which Jesus speaks through the Holy Spirit .. the unforgivable sin.

What was your point ... why are you informing that Paul met Peter and James ? That does not turn Paul into a disciple ?! not sure what you are trying to say here ?

 

[walt]

I believe the trinity is false. God is not a trinity. Proof?

I agree with you,

• The word Trinity is not a word in the Bible, and neither is the words: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are one God.
• Words Jesus and the Apostles never spoke, are they important?
• Jesus did say John 17:3 and the Apostles did say 2 Cor 1:3, 1 Peter 1:3 and a lot more..
• Do we really need proof, when it is never spoken about in the first place?

 

[walt]

Does Jesus and the Apostles want us to put faith in what they said or something they never said?

Or something we think we figured out?

 

[Truthseeker]

What was your point ... why are you informing that Paul met Peter and James ? That does not turn Paul into a disciple ?! not sure what you are trying to say here ?

I came into the middle of this and did not realize the argument was about whether Paul was a disciple. It's true that he was not of the original 12 disciples, and never knew Christ personally. To me, whether he is defined as a disciple or not means little. It's true he called himself an apostle of God, so are you arguing about whether Paul was inflating his own importance? He did do a good job spreading Christianity, and I think it may be because of that he had a certain pride about that - too much pride.

 

[learner Daniel]

Paul died before the first gospel was written -- along with all the other disciples .. and it is highly unlikely he heard Jesus in the Temple as Jesus did not normally teach in the temple . can't remember any occasions but .. regardless .. If Paul did hear Jesus he does not tell us anything about it in his writings . Paul's writings tell us next to nothing about the life of Jesus nor his teachings ..

Have you heard of the proto-gospel, Q document, and Oral gospel traditions?