The trinity is false - I have proof

[YoursTrue]

We worked from Torah directly, chapter by chapter, and then used multiple commentaries to help with understanding differing interpretations.

To go over this again, the synagogue I was associated with was a 'reform' synagogue. I had a good friend who was an Orthodox Jew and their customs are quite different from those of the reform branch of Judaism.

It would take too long to explain but let me just say that it was sort of a "calling" based on "premonitions" [I know that sounds crazy] I had for almost 2 years. It was VERY far from easy and very traumatic for me.

I can't speak about premonitions, however I gave up searching at a certain point because the world of religion is (or at least was) very confusing for me. So many bright people writing books about other ways of life, etc. I understand about the trauma, as I considered my entrance as what I consider a true Christian to have been traumatic. Nevertheless, I did so because of my belief that there is a God who cares and He cares what His people do.

No, it was more based on my studies that showed that Jesus could not be the Messiah if one took the Tanakh at the literalistic level. The irony is that I wasn't an still ain't a literalist, so I sort duped myself. However, I certainly have no problem going and davening there.

Now? ??

"Babylon the Great" was a reference to the Roman Empire, and the feminine form of "Babylon" in 1Peter:5 is a refence to the city of Rome.

That is another subject perhaps to be discussed another time. I'd have to do more research on it to say exactly how I view it. I will say this, however -- the Bible says that Jesus told his disciples to get out of Jerusalem when they saw the armies. Now I do believe the temple was ransacked and virtually destroyed in 70 CE by the Roman armies. There's more but I'd have to go over the time period and the evangelizing of the Christians at that time. And their problems (that's putting it mildly) with Rome.

 

[Sargonski]

It was emotional plea, not disobedience.

It was not stated that it was disobedience - in fact quite the reverse was told to you . That Jesus is subordinate to the will of the father .. that Jesus ends up doing the will of the father. You need to take a moment here recognize your strawman fallacy and explain (not to me but to self) the fact that you are on a completely different page .. having absolutely no understanding of what is happening in the story.

Of course Jesus obeys the Will of his Father .. Just as any son might obey his Father's command .. how was it that you somehow reversed this into Jesus is not obedient .. in an act of self deception ? or - just deception ? Either way the hand of the snake is in play .. listen to what the Prophet Say .. and not to the snake charmers with whome you like to play Brother Daniel .

So what is the point that for many posts you have avoided --- ?? The point is not that Jesus was disobedient .. as this is made up fantasy ... that is not what the story shows us. Jesus obeys the command of the Father .. the point is that he does not do so willingly .. Jesus is not happy about his being made a human sacrifice .. he agrees to do what ever commanded .. as any good Soldier or Son .. but he is not happy about it .. the will of Jesus is not the Will of the Father in this instance .. and later he calls out his Father for going through with the wretched plan .. and not saving him - the final words of Jesus berrating his Father for not saving him from the Sacrificial Alter like he did Issac .. first fruits of Abraham

In this version of the Story of Jesus the original version of the story - Jesus is adopted by a God at his Baptism by John the Baptist as a man of 30. There is no Virgen Birth - no lineage back to David - and no physical resurrection .. no stories of Jesus wandering around in the flesh after death.

The early 1rst century reader is falmiliar with stories of Gods Adopting humans .. be it Sargon of Akkad in 2300 BC .. in to the river in a basket .. later adopted by a God .. to Abe - also adopted by a God .. to Moses -- into the river in a basket .. goes on to found a great nation- .. the worlds first empire in the case of Sargon .. can we call the Israelites an Empire ?? maybe a small one .

The original story tells us that Jesus is a man of 30 .. nothing spectacular about him other than the prophecy of John that another anointed one of God will arrive .. and take us into an apocalypse of some kind .. the end times are near .. John was an "end times" preacher .. and obviously the 1rst century reader knows this. Unlike yourself .. and every other 21st century reader .. sans the enlightened

Jesus recieves the "God Spark" .. the "All-Spark" .. what ever we wish to call it when a God adopts a human and gives that human various gifts that go along with being semi-divine. Jesus recieves these gifts not at birth .. but at his baptism.

But - first, prior to actualizing his divinity .. the divine spark delivered to Jesu by the Holy Spirit at Baptism .. he must survive a ritual Trial .. where this man who has just been adopted by a God will be tested by another God .. the Tester of Souls .. Chief God over the earth.

and - no need to interject with anything at this piont .. because this is not about what you believe .. this is what our early first century Jewish reader believes .. as this is the only story he has to go on .. beloved Gospel of John will not hit the presses for another 50 years .. half a century later .. the reader of Mark knows none of that alternative version of the story .. he has only the original story ...

and in that story .. Jesus is a man adopted by a God .. and every early Christian is going to be an adoptionist in perspective .. This Man of 30 survives the testing .. and then goes on to proclaim the Good news .. is called Rabbi by the people and Prophet .. but not "God" never mind the "Most High God" .. that notion would be beyond absurd to our reader.. NOT what the story says..

What the story tells us is that not only do the disciples not know what to think of this fellow .. Yes he is great and wonderful teacher but beyond that .. anyone's guess - but, his own family does not think much of his teachings .. and he is not believed in his home town .. not believed that he is the Messiah .. annointed one of God .. King of the Jews. the claim for which Jesus is killed .. NOT .. claiming to be God .. Sorry.

Right to the end .. despite witnessing a number of wonder works .. the disciples doubt that Jesus is "the Messiah" ..the annointed son of God.
Thomas betrays Jesus .. Peter denies him 3 times. This is not a story trying to tell us that this Jesus fellow is God Most High.. to our first century reader such claim would be ridiculous nonsense... and simply false ..

The piont of Jesus praying to his God - El Elyon - Abba . The Father .. begging to be released from the task at hand -- is that Jesus and this God are two separate entities .. not the same .. not even close. We have "Big Cheese" and we have "Little Cheese" .. that these are separate entities is not in question .. that little cheese has far less power than Big Cheese .. not in question.. What is in question is how much power does little cheese have .. how divine .. what was the nature of the little piece of the all-spark that he got.

The larger point .. is that the Trinity is man made bunk .. a doctrine that defines itself as nonsense .. in a brilliant piece of doublespeak ... the work of author of confusion par excellance . an author you have yet to identify by the way .. speaking of "Thought stopping" .. "avoid the bad thought' exercise .

In the NT we have how many divinities /Gods/gods ? Lets make a list.. keeping in mind that there are many more in the OT that the people reading the NT will know of.

1) Chief God on Earth (Ha Satan) , 2) Chief God in the Heavens - God of Jesus ( El) 3) Lord YHWH -- while not mentioned directly by name .. is referred to as the God of the Pharisees .. their "Father the Devil" a terrible nasty God (Jesus words not mine) a premise on which early Christian sects were based - 4) The Holy Sprite - not sure about this contestent .. a divinity of sorts but how much power welds this God is undetermined .. more importantly whether or not this entity has its own will .. as opposed to being just an emanation from the Godhead. ..
5) Jesus -- the start - divinity undefined .. this god definitely has ints own will .. but how much power this divinity has is not well defined but clearly less than the Chief God on Earth .. and obviously less than Chief God in the Heavens .. and we can presume less than Son of God YHWH ..

So our Power rankings would then be 1) EL 2) Ha Satan 3) YHWH 4) Jesus ? - Holy Spirit ? we don't know who is the more powerful between the Holy Spirit and Jesus .

There are other condenders mentioned in Revelation but no need to complicate the matter further .. was we have already demonstrated that the Author of Confusion sold you a bill of monotheistic goods Brother Dan .. that the Trinity is from the hand of the snake charmer .. the hand of man .. the hand of original sin ... and in no way is related to "The Word" nor the divinity of the annointed one of God.

 

[Sargonski]

I have no problem understanding the definition given for the
Trinity.

LOL .. sorry friend but if you realized how ridiculous and self deprecatory your claim is .. you would have a chuckle too

The definition of the Trinity is nonsense -- no + sense.. the definition of the trinity is "Not Understandable" Not by anyone .. ot even God ..

like YHWH = I am that I am .. not even a name actually .. but never mind that .. the definition of the Triity is not understand that you not understand ..

Regardless -- understand or not .. The Trinity concept is not to be found in the origial story . sorry ..

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I have no problem understanding the definition given for the
Trinity.

When I was a Christian, I believed in the hypostatic union, which is the theological belief that Jesus took on human nature yet remained fully God when he was a man. It encapsulates the belief regarding his humanity and divinity (two natures) in a single hypostasis and is in conjunction with the Trinity doctrine.

 

[metis]

the

the Roman Empire is long gone ,yet ''Babylon the great'' remains ,bigger and stronger then it was . her destruction, comes from the anger of the beast . when that happens the beast will go to far . at that point ,expect a serious one sided war , Armageddon !

I really don't believe in that kind of stuff [Armageddon, etc], so I'll pass.

 

[YoursTrue]

It was not stated that it was disobedience - in fact quite the reverse was told to you . That Jesus is subordinate to the will of the father .. that Jesus ends up doing the will of the father. You need to take a moment here recognize your strawman fallacy and explain (not to me but to self) the fact that you are on a completely different page .. having absolutely no understanding of what is happening in the story.

I conclude from the Bible that the Son was with the Father for eons before the earth came to be. And the Son (also known as the Word) learned everything he knew from his Father as a loving and devoted son would learn from his father. Although Jesus had much more time to observe the Father's works before he came to the earth. Therefore when Jesus said he and the Father are one and he does everything he sees the Father doing he did everything he learned out of love FOR his heavenly Father in the exact manner and temperament as he saw Him in heaven.

 

[YoursTrue]

I really don't believe in that kind of stuff [Armageddon, etc], so I'll pass.

If I had not studied the Bible I would also think it was a myth about Armageddon and understanding more about Babylon the Great. It's a detailed subject about Babylon the Great, but the song from Handel's Messiah comes to mind about the Day of God's Wrath, "who will abide" at the Lord's coming? When I sang it I had no idea whether it was true or not but thought maybe something was in the air. Even though I attended church services long ago (not as a worshiper, of course, you probably know that by now) there was no talk of Armageddon. Yet as I go about my daily activities people tell me in passing how difficult things are now. Once in a while I hear them say that they think the end is near even if they may not know what it means, but somehow that thought got across. And, from what I learn in the Bible, Jesus did say that for many things would appear as usual --