The Trinity

[Lucian]

this is so confusing :thud:

whatever u say, u cannot convince ur mind that they are one. u will always think of them as separate beings

The point is not whether or not they are separate beings, but they are one. I think the problem comes with interpreting their oneness to be something that it is not. Haven't you ever loved someone so much that you feel they are one with yourself? It's a glimpse into this unity. Jesus prays that the Apostles be part of this unity that Father God and Christ shares, and we can all be in it - and so we are in God and God is in us. We are Sons of God, the new creation, temples of the Holy Spirit.

Yes but doesn't the Father being god and the Trinity (which the Father is part of) being god create a paradox?

You'll have to ask the Athanasians as I don't believe in the Athanasian doctrine.

 

[MountainHumanist]

why couldnt the story be true? God bless

It could be true. Any ancient story about supernatural phenomenon could be be true. The job of of an historian is to determine how probable it is that said event happened.

In the case of almost of these stories, a natural, usually quite ordinary explanation.

The question is what is the probability? What is the probability that dead people can speak to living people in sudden "appearances?" On the other hand, what is the probability that a person may experience a deeply, mystical hallucination? See?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Kind of, yes: It means they are one, but not the same thing. The three are one, and the first one is the one God. The Bible states there is the only true God, the Father, and then Sons of God, all who are one. The Sons of God are stated to be Gods, capable of dying, yet there is only one true God, the immortal Father. They are not the same, but are one, united in love under the guiding will of the Father. And so in the end, God will be all in all.

..............:yes:

 

[roddio]

It could be true. Any ancient story about supernatural phenomenon could be be true. The job of of an historian is to determine how probable it is that said event happened.

In the case of almost of these stories, a natural, usually quite ordinary explanation.

The question is what is the probability? What is the probability that dead people can speak to living people in sudden "appearances?" On the other hand, what is the probability that a person may experience a deeply, mystical hallucination? See?

Jesus aint dead. So the probability that Paul spoke to Him is 100% accurate. I researched the bible an when I read this story I found it to be accurate. God bless

 

[roddio]

in the original greek scriptures, the first time the word God appears is written 'Theos' (meaning The God) refering to the Almighty. the second time this word appears, it is written 'Hotheos' (meaning A god).

the translation should be" In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (or The God) and the Word was A god.

the two terms are not referring to the Almighty in greek, 'a god' means 'godly'
wrong translations cause confusion.

the the trinity was proposed in the nicene creed , 300 years after Jesus left this earth, there was a bishop called Arius who, along with some followers, opposed the idea of the divinity of Jesus Christ. but majority ruled and Arius was exiled for his beliefs. jesus NEVER said that he is God, not in any version of the bible. how could he have missed such an important fact and never speak about it

You cant seperate God from His word. God backs up everything He said. so it couldnt be a god, its GOD. God bless

 

[roddio]

Kind of, yes: It means they are one, but not the same thing. The three are one, and the first one is the one God. The Bible states there is the only true God, the Father, and then Sons of God, all who are one. The Sons of God are stated to be Gods, capable of dying, yet there is only one true God, the immortal Father. They are not the same, but are one, united in love under the guiding will of the Father. And so in the end, God will be all in all.

Jesus said the only way to the Father is through me. God said You shall no God before me. So if Jesus isnt God in flesh that means Jesus has a real big problem. God bless

 

[roddio]

I also now I have another question about the trinity since I have been doing more research on it.

If Jesus is god incarnate (according to some chrisitans) Than wouldn't that make Mary the mother of god, thus Mary would be truly god?

Mary was a vessel used by God. Just as believers are today, In Acts Mary was in the room at the day of pentecost recieving the spirit like the rest of the people in the room. Mary was chosen because she was a believing virgin. God bless

 

[angellous_evangellous]

sorry about the mistake. but my translation is still correct according to the new world translation (hotheos=The God; ton theon= A God)

Still wrong on the greek, buddy. "ho-theos" doesn't appear in the text ...

 

[MountainHumanist]

Jesus aint dead. So the probability that Paul spoke to Him is 100% accurate. I researched the bible an when I read this story I found it to be accurate. God bless

You state "Jesus ain't dead." Can you provide any non-biblical proof? Any scientific data? To state that a person who supposedly lived 2,000 years ago is still alive is a very provocative statement and requires a tremendous amount of backing data. A third-hand account of what sounds like a religious hallucination does not qualify as credible evidence. The probability that Paul had an epileptic episode is much higher.

 

[sojourner]

in the original greek scriptures, the first time the word God appears is written 'Theos' (meaning The God) refering to the Almighty. the second time this word appears, it is written 'Hotheos' (meaning A god).

the translation should be" In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (or The God) and the Word was A god.

the two terms are not referring to the Almighty in greek, 'a god' means 'godly'
wrong translations cause confusion.

the the trinity was proposed in the nicene creed , 300 years after Jesus left this earth, there was a bishop called Arius who, along with some followers, opposed the idea of the divinity of Jesus Christ. but majority ruled and Arius was exiled for his beliefs. jesus NEVER said that he is God, not in any version of the bible. how could he have missed such an important fact and never speak about it

Hmm...
My Greek Bible shows theon, an accusative, singular noun, and theos, a nominative, singular noun. both are used in the NT as references to the true God. Theos is not a god, but the God.

Your Cliff's Notes on Arius are too brief to do us any good. You forgot to list the myriad theological problems that Arius' stance created.

 

[Lucian]

Jesus said the only way to the Father is through me. God said You shall no God before me. So if Jesus isnt God in flesh that means Jesus has a real big problem. God bless

I totally agree with you! :yes:

 

[roddio]

I totally agree with you! :yes:

So how can Jesus be in Heaven sitting at the right side of God? God bless

 

[Katzpur]

The point is not whether or not they are separate beings, but they are one. I think the problem comes with interpreting their oneness to be something that it is not. Haven't you ever loved someone so much that you feel they are one with yourself? It's a glimpse into this unity. Jesus prays that the Apostles be part of this unity that Father God and Christ shares, and we can all be in it - and so we are in God and God is in us.

Well stated.

 

[roddio]

You state "Jesus ain't dead." Can you provide any non-biblical proof? Any scientific data? To state that a person who supposedly lived 2,000 years ago is still alive is a very provocative statement and requires a tremendous amount of backing data. A third-hand account of what sounds like a religious hallucination does not qualify as credible evidence. The probability that Paul had an epileptic episode is much higher.

Jesus still being alive is something that I can say is true because I believe it. People believe in dinosaurs but cant prove that dinosaurs existed, I know your going to say that they found bones but if man wasnt around then how do you know that's a dinosaur bone? God bless

 

[sojourner]

So how can Jesus be in Heaven sitting at the right side of God? God bless

The Son sits at the right hand of the Father. he can do that, because the Father and the Son are two persons.

 

[roddio]

The Son sits at the right hand of the Father. he can do that, because the Father and the Son are two persons.

I disagree. John 1:1 calls Jesus the Word, How can you seperate God from His Word? God bless

 

[sojourner]

I disagree. John 1:1 calls Jesus the Word, How can you seperate God from His Word? God bless

Read on. John also goes further and says that the Word became flesh and lived among us.
However, just because God became Incarnate as a distinct Person doesn't mean that there was a division into two Beings. There is one Being -- three distinct Persons. God is not separated from either God's Word, or God's Spirit.

 

[roddio]

Read on. John also goes further and says that the Word became flesh and lived among us.
However, just because God became Incarnate as a distinct Person doesn't mean that there was a division into two Beings. There is one Being -- three distinct Persons. God is not separated from either God's Word, or God's Spirit.

1timothy 3:16. God bless

 

[sojourner]

1timothy 3:16. God bless

And...?

 

[gnostophiliac]

(I am not trying to offend any christians. I am just challenging their beliefs. If I offend you, I apologize)

The trinity has always bothered me. I have several reasons for this.

1) Who is the "Father"? I have heard some people say it's god himself but isn't the trinity itself god? So doesn't that create a paradox?

2) What is the "Holy Ghost" exactly? Is it the spirituality of the people? If so then why not call it spirit?

3) The New Testament doesn't really talk much about it, except in a few obscure excerpts. It is common knowledge that Jesus himself never really talked about it at all. Then why is it so heavily emphasized on in christianity?

Follow it through and it's fairly obvious you're stuck with it:-

Start with "God the Father", all nice and Abrahamic, alone, jealous and prepared to flatten all comers. The he sends Jesus, so we have two parts, clearly separate or we just nailed the only true god to a cross, and he called out to himself for help. Stopping there would be nice and simple, but Jesus is reported as saying that you can slag off God; no problem, you can be rude to Jesus; shrug, but if you say anything bad about the Holy Spirit your stuffed and no takebacks. QED the Holy Spirit must also exist, isn't God or Jesus but is in some way more terrible than the pair combined.

Now if in the beginning there was one god, and by the end of John we have three it's a conundrum, but if we say they're all really the same thing, stop asking questions, I'm not listening, la la la, we might just get away with it.

simples.

Anyhow, Jesus said he was the 'Son of Man' not the son of God, so he may not really be God anyway.