The Trinity

[Yes]

Who do we bow to? I just gave scripture that says we will bow to Jesus and acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, see Philippians 2:9-11. Now, we also see in Romans 14:11 that Jesus and God are the SAME.


Romans 14:11 …10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." 12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

The Trinity doesn't appear in scripture. There are no words in scripture: Trinity, God the Son, etc.

There really is no getting around the Trinity being a theological development within Christianity.

 

[moorea944]

All the men that were worshiped by other people...they told the men to stop it.
Jesus does not tell anyone to stop worshiping him.



Philippians 2:9-
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2 tells us again that God "gave" His son authority. Jesus "bares" the names of God. But he is not God. Look at verse 9. God gave him....

[Jesus does not tell anyone to stop worshipping him}
So that makes him God? That makes him the Father? I really dont think you realise what your writting...... Your making Jesus God with every verse you put out there.

 

[moorea944]

The Trinity doesn't appear in scripture. There are no words in scripture: Trinity, God the Son, etc.

There really is no getting around the Trinity being a theological development within Christianity.

Thank you. I agree. Trinity started with Constatine in around 324AD. If you went to Israel today and asked anyone there about the trinity, they would think it is absurd!!

"Hear O Israel, the Lord YOUR God is One" I try to figure out a trinity in that and I cant see it......
Plus, you have Isaiah chapters 44,45,46. "Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Most Christians today say that is wrong. There are Gods beside our God, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Why would you want to think differrently? Why cant people believe there is only one God? Dont get it....

 

[pearl]

Who do we bow to? I just gave scripture that says we will bow to Jesus and acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, see Philippians 2:9-11. Now, we also see in Romans 14:11 that Jesus and God are the SAME.


Romans 14:11 …10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." 12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

Paul's instruction concerns Christ, resurrected, taken to God, glorified. By the time Paul writes there already exists a worshiping
community of believers, the church, who interpret the Messiah through Hebrew Scripture.
"By myself I swear,
uttering my just decree,
a word that will not return:
To me every knee shall bend;
by me every tongue shall swear,
Saying, "Only in the LORD
are just deeds and power.
Before him in shame shall come
all who vent their anger against him." Isaiah

Since Christ spells termination of the law, which included observance of specific days and festivals as well as dietary instruction, the jettisoning of long-practiced customs was traumatic for many Christians brought up under the Mosaic code. Although Paul acknowledges that in principle no food is a source of moral contamination he recommends that the consciences of Christians who are scrupulous in this regard be respected by other Christians. On the other hand, those who have scruples are not to sit in judgment on those who know that the gospel has liberated them from such ordinances.

It is the theology and the Christology at work within the NT.

 

[Yes]

The Trinity doesn't appear in scripture. There are no words in scripture: Trinity, God the Son, etc.

There really is no getting around the Trinity being a theological development within Christianity.

The trinity doctrine is a false doctrine. It rightly says that there are three, but the error when they say the three are separate and different.

There are three, and the three are One and the same.

The Bible speaks often about God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[pearl]

Thank you. I agree. Trinity started with Constatine in around 324AD. If you went to Israel today and asked anyone there about the trinity, they would think it is absurd!!

"Hear O Israel, the Lord YOUR God is One" I try to figure out a trinity in that and I cant see it......
Plus, you have Isaiah chapters 44,45,46. "Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Most Christians today say that is wrong. There are Gods beside our God, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Why would you want to think differrently? Why cant people believe there is only one God? Dont get it....

There is only one God. The 'word' trinity itself does not appear in Scripture, there are references to it. Neither does the 'word'
trinity appear in the Creed, but there is reference to it. The 'word' itself is the formulation, the attempt to articulate. In the Gospel
of Matthew there is the baptismal formula, one is to be baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
In the Creed, "We believe in one God, the Father......, We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ the only Son of God.......,
We believe in the Holy Spirit....who proceeds from the Father and the Son.... In the Acts of the Apostles Luke reports Stephen's vision just before his death, "Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand. 'I can see heaven thrown open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are mentioned together. There is no contradiction between "Hear O Israel, the Lord Our God is One."
The stumbling block is the formulation of 'persons' which did not mean then what 'person' in the same way it is understood today.

 

[Yes]

Philippians 2 tells us again that God "gave" His son authority. Jesus "bares" the names of God. But he is not God. Look at verse 9. God gave him....

[Jesus does not tell anyone to stop worshipping him}
So that makes him God? That makes him the Father? I really dont think you realise what your writting...... Your making Jesus God with every verse you put out there.

What don't you get when Jesus says worship God only, but does not stop anyone from worshiping him, as the other Apostles did?

What don't you get that Jesus calls HIMSELF the EXACT name that God calls HIMSELF?

What don't you get that the Bible says the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of the Son, yet the Bible says there is ONE SPIRIT?

What don't you get that when we are saved we have Jesus himself living in us? Do you think we are given a man spirit, or the Spirit of God? The Bible says we receive the Spirit of God, not a man's spirit.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

Thank you. I agree. Trinity started with Constatine in around 324AD.

It didn't start then, or with Constantine. It was a theological development that gradually evolved and gained ground. The Orthodox definition of it was affirmed by most of the church universal at Nicea yes, but I believe this was ultimately a mistake.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

The trinity doctrine is a false doctrine. It rightly says that there are three, but the error when they say the three are separate and different.

There are three, and the three are One and the same.

The Bible speaks often about God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

No, the entire concept is unbiblical. Jesus said his Father was greater than he was, that only God alone is good, and so forth. Jesus calls the Father his God repeatedly.

 

[Yes]

Paul's instruction concerns Christ, resurrected, taken to God, glorified. By the time Paul writes there already exists a worshiping
community of believers, the church, who interpret the Messiah through Hebrew Scripture.
"By myself I swear,
uttering my just decree,
a word that will not return:
To me every knee shall bend;
by me every tongue shall swear,
Saying, "Only in the LORD
are just deeds and power.
Before him in shame shall come
all who vent their anger against him." Isaiah

Since Christ spells termination of the law, which included observance of specific days and festivals as well as dietary instruction, the jettisoning of long-practiced customs was traumatic for many Christians brought up under the Mosaic code. Although Paul acknowledges that in principle no food is a source of moral contamination he recommends that the consciences of Christians who are scrupulous in this regard be respected by other Christians. On the other hand, those who have scruples are not to sit in judgment on those who know that the gospel has liberated them from such ordinances.

It is the theology and the Christology at work within the NT.

It sounds as if you agreeing with me.

 

[Yes]

No, the entire concept is unbiblical.

That is an untruth. I have already explained it to you and you ignore what I said. I said Jesus was worshiped and told us to only worship God. I told you that Jesus calls himself the exact names that God calls himself.

Jesus said his Father was greater than he was,

Because Jesus is God come as a Son of Man Jesus was speaking in the flesh. Being in the flesh as a Man is less. The Bible says that Jesus was made lower, and came in the likeness of sinful flesh, he made himself nothing

that only God alone is good, and so forth. Jesus calls the Father his God repeatedly.

You do not understand that scripture. Jesus is explaining that only God is good, and that is where good comes from. Jesus is good because he is God.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

That is an untruth. I have already explained it to you and you ignore what I said. I said Jesus was worshiped and told us to only worship God. I told you that Jesus calls himself the exact names that God calls himself.


Because Jesus is God come as a Son of Man Jesus was speaking in the flesh. Being in the flesh as a Man is less. The Bible says that Jesus was made lower, and came in the likeness of sinful flesh, he made himself nothing


You do not understand that scripture. Jesus is explaining that only God is good, and that is where good comes from. Jesus is good because he is God.

Jesus was worshiped<<< Being worshipped and accepting that worship are two different things.

We are told Jesus did not accept praises/glory from people (Jn 5:41). In this same chapter he explains he does and says only as the Father guides him, and that if he were to testify of himself, his testimony would not be true.

Jesus told people time again they were WRONG for trying to worship him.

Jesus was speaking as a man in the flesh<<< So God denied Himself?

I do understand scripture. Jesus was saying only God was good because people were trying to glorify him, and he had to correct them yet again.

 

[pearl]

What don't you get when Jesus says worship God only, but does not stop anyone from worshiping him, as the other Apostles did?

What many of us do not get, is not all the words put on Jesus' lips were actually stated by Jesus in his lifetime. What we have in many instances is not the exact words spoken by Jesus while on earth, the historical Jesus, but along with the memories of Jesus
words and deeds is a deeper understanding in the light of resurrection faith, not possible before.

 

[jeager106]

Satan began attacking Christians as soon as their were Christians.
Satan tempted Jesus and failed but satan did try didn't he?
How clever satan must be? Remember who we are dealing with. Satan, a spirit
creature of immense power, intelect, cunning, and dedicated to deceiptions in all manner, in all forms.
The best way to serve a lie is between two truths. The next best way to serve a lie is to disguise it as the truth.
How wonderful the emotions to really believe in a triune god. How simplistic a view while ignoring ordinary sense. Walk into many churches of Christiandom and see how ornate the dressing, how the music appeals to the emotions, how "good" one feels at the pomp and pagentry, the robes and cloaks of those appointed as "holy leaders". Man loves to set up idols in ALL forms now doesn't he?
Scripture tells us that many will deny the Truth because many, of their own choosing, can not see the truth, are deaf and blind to the signs around them.
Hell, as a place of burning punishment, is a pagan concept, does not exsit, heaven is a place for a few annointed to serve God, Jesus and US in administering to affairs on the earth in the age to come. (soon)
The notion of a rapture, while good book and movie material is a flat out bastardization of scripture. Pagan sun worship, the sign of satan, 666, and pagan influence has invaded our Christian world for almost 2,000 years and most believers in Christ can't even see what they see.
X-mas and easter are 100% pagan, even the beloved nativity scene we all love is incorrect.
Easter is the most obvious pagan celebration of all with symbols of ancient fertility rights in plain sight.
Easter. Ain't that when some guy comes out of a tomb and sees his shadow marking 6 more weeks of winter??????
Well that is just as stupid as the easter we celebrate.
The triune god is found in religions not even Christian thru out the world.
Just LOOK!
I'm no theologian. I'm just cursed with some kind of force that drives me to dig, study, hunt, look for, the truth. The Bible is too wonderful a book, a gift to all men, to ignore or to dismiss as so much myth. We all need find the truth, the meaning and how the bible makes meaning.
To get a glimps into the world of deception and how powerful deception is, just look at the churches that pass around a basket of rattlesnakes. Those souls BELIEVE they won't get bitten. If they are bitten they refuse medical treatment thinking "god" will protect them.
When they die from the poison then "god" needed another angel in heaven.
Really?

 

[pearl]

I'm no theologian. I'm just cursed with some kind of force that drives me to dig, study, hunt, look for, the truth. The Bible is too wonderful a book, a gift to all men, to ignore or to dismiss as so much myth. We all need find the truth, the meaning and how the bible makes meaning.

One will never answer the question, why?, apart from a proper understanding of myth which is the vehicle for acquiring that fuller understanding. The art of myth does not dismiss the Bible, it gives if life.

 

[moorea944]

That is an untruth. I have already explained it to you and you ignore what I said. I said Jesus was worshiped and told us to only worship God. I told you that Jesus calls himself the exact names that God calls himself.


Because Jesus is God come as a Son of Man Jesus was speaking in the flesh. Being in the flesh as a Man is less. The Bible says that Jesus was made lower, and came in the likeness of sinful flesh, he made himself nothing


You do not understand that scripture. Jesus is explaining that only God is good, and that is where good comes from. Jesus is good because he is God.

Ok, a couple of things here are wrong. Jesus says that no one is good, except the Father, because he is talking about his sin nature. Remember that the bible tells us that Christ was like us, same nature as us too. Jesus was a good person, but he's not talking about that.

[Because Jesus is God come as a Son of Man ]
Can you show us a verse that actually says that?

[I told you that Jesus calls himself the exact names that God calls himself.]
Can you show us a verse that actually says that? An actual verse that shows Jesus telling everyone he is Yahweh! He never did once. He always glorified God in everything he did.

 

[jeager106]

One will never answer the question, why?, apart from a proper understanding of myth which is the vehicle for acquiring that fuller understanding. The art of myth does not dismiss the Bible, it gives if life.

The art of myth does not dismiss the Bible because the Bible is not myth.
I will fully akcnowledge there are myth like stories in the Biblical texts like the
Creation poem. I say poem because it explains creation in a story ancients could easily understand.

 

[jeager106]

Ok, a couple of things here are wrong. Jesus says that no one is good, except the Father, because he is talking about his sin nature. Remember that the bible tells us that Christ was like us, same nature as us too. Jesus was a good person, but he's not talking about that.

[Because Jesus is God come as a Son of Man ]
Can you show us a verse that actually says that?

[I told you that Jesus calls himself the exact names that God calls himself.]
Can you show us a verse that actually says that? An actual verse that shows Jesus telling everyone he is Yahweh! He never did once. He always glorified God in everything he did.

This^^^^^^^^^. No serious student of Christian Sripture with the ability to reason could have ever come up with a triune gog except for the triune gods found in many non Christian religions.
The very concept of 3 gods in 1 is pagan in origin.
Given Consititine was a Roman that worshiped pagan gods it's no stretch to imagine Consitintine contructing a "book" at his request, that would mimic his pagan beliefs thus throw Christianity off coures early on.
I'd imagine saying "no" or openly disagreeing with him could get one crucified
pretty quickly.
It's hard for many Christians raised with certain false beliefs to admit that those beliefs were false. Tradition and superstition are strong elements in human nature.
It takes courage and willingness to ask God to be able to see the truth knowing the truth could be painful.
I'm not afraid to question God, Jesus, Scripture, as no harm will come to me.
God would openly accept honest questions in my way of thinking.
If I didn't question accepted doctrine I'd be praying to a statue in a Cathedral, waiting for the rapture, while holding a rattle snake.
Aw com'on that was funny and you know it.

 

[kjv4me2you]

If one is to use the full intent of mathematical notation (including set theory) the correct notation would be 1 (is less than or equal to) 1+1+1 (which is less than or equal to 3).

If however, we use the full implications of mathematical theory as a projection of the G-dhead then we must deal with one very important notion form the ancient Hebrew description of G-d. That is the word &#8220;ehad&#8221; to describe the numerical &#8220;oneness&#8221; of G-d. If we assume the numerical singularity of &#8220;ehad&#8221; then the &#8220;oneness&#8221; of G-d becomes by definition the least common dominator of the whole. This would mean that G-d cannot be divided or differentiated into any &#8220;sub&#8221; persons or distinctions &#8211; such as &#8220;Father&#8221; &#8220;Son&#8221; and &#8220;Holy Ghost&#8221;.

If in contrast, &#8220;ehad&#8221; is plural unity, as in marriage when a man and a woman become &#8220;one flesh&#8221; then &#8220;ehad&#8221; does not assume the number theory definition of the &#8220;whole&#8221; or &#8220;counting&#8221; numbers and cannot be use as scriptural proof that G-d is singular. The point here is that according to all possible variant readings of &#8220;ehad&#8221; the &#8220;Biblical&#8221; interpretation of &#8220;one G-d&#8221; is contradicted in the doctrine of the Trinity.

Zadok

Sound doctrine……………..

You can only find the interpretation of scripture in the total fullness of scripture content which will lead to the fullness of correct contextual interpretation for all scripturally grounded doctrines. Sound doctrines are not the implied commentaries of men and their denominations. No man made word like trinity that implies a doctrine like trinity with some scripture verses twisted around the man made word “trinity” comes from the counting of the number of times trinity word appears as a word in scripture nor from any scriptural context regarding YHWH God and His spirit Son Christ being refered to as trinity or called trintiy.

The building of sound doctrine must contain the total content of all scripture from Genesis to Revelation regarding that doctrine ( teaching) with at least two or three scriptures whose totality of content is contextually correct from the scriptures.
The trying of spirits for sound doctrine is simple enough, if the word does not exist in holy scripture, it cannot be a pure purified seven times holy scripture doctrine…

(1 John 4:1 KJV) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

(Psa 12:6 KJV) The words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times…………….

(Psa 12:7 KJV) YHWH shalt keep them ( WORDS) , O YHWH, thou shalt preserve them (THY WORDS) from this generation for ever…………


YHWH is not keeping or preserving words like rapture, trinity , purgatory, rosary, transubstantiation, mary mother of god, book of mormon .

YHWH God preserves words from this generation for ever if those words are not found in “The words of YHWH God‘s BOOK ”

……………………..