The Trinity

[outhouse]

Why 'separate' God?

the evolution of the abrahamic god at mans hands is obvious

but in this case a man was deified and worship shared with yahweh, they would not go back to their polytheistic past, so as you stated, monotheism was ordered down through the roman emporer Constantine, more to unify the church, but his hand was the one who laid the debate to rest.

 

[SageTree]

the evolution of the abrahamic god at mans hands is obvious

but in this case a man was deified and worship shared with yahweh, they would not go back to their polytheistic past, so as you stated, monotheism was ordered down through the roman emporer Constantine, more to unify the church, but his hand was the one who laid the debate to rest.

but his hand was the one who "laid the debate to rest."

and it probably sounded like this,

"Let's call a counsel... I'll make sure it seems fair, but it's a hollow gesture to further my reactionary agenda",said Constantine.

 

[Oryonder]

Well, Trinity wasn't my idea lol, Trinity as doctrine, I get the question. I believe Jesus as Teacher represents God as THE WORD. Jesus the Christ as The Eternal Son-incarnate.
Jesus also had a very human personality in every way. Jesus of Nazareth was wholly human. Jesus the Christ; wholly Divine. Beyond human bodies, beyond all mortals[angels; et. al]
God is the All in All. The Eternal 'Son'[WORD] this also remains part mystery, God who lived a human experience as Jesus incarnate. God as Holy Spirit <-Spirit of Truth.=Trinity. Every Christian loves to argue Genesis: God and The Word was with God<-explain that away.
Jesus taught us about the dispensation of GOD=Holy Spirit at Pentecost first the Jews then the Gentiles. Explain that away. All these Bible versions yet this truth remains one truth inviolate, all else altered and revised. Except this.
The closer we engage with God, from the inside out, the more we are able to hear/recognize God as Spirit of truth or feel, however our Soul responds best. God is always within we need go nowhere else to commune to talk with God. We go to church if we choose to, to formally worship and praise God as Father, Jesus as Eternal son, Holy Spirit as Truth. The Breath of life IS our soul; our God fragment resident within us all. Awakening our soul for us is a choice=Free Will. We determine how this journey goes as it passes through our mortal bodies and engages our soul. What we do here, the decisions of spiritual import here, imprints on our Soul.
Trinity-not three persons with corporeal bodies. drop the human perspective, adopt the spiritual as energy perspective and may your soul awaken. Would you really presume to limit God? to physical bodies? do you or anyone really think an old white man breathed into Adam? think outside the box. Question as Jesus taught us, then pay attention as Jesus also taught us, for you are ALWAYS answered. This is one.
May you feel God's love always.:goldfish:

I believe it was the Gnostics that thought of a single Godhead with many emanations. Jesus and the Holy Spirit would then be emanations of the Godhead known as Aeons.

God would not then be represented as a Trinity but as an entity the possibility to have numerous, much greater than three, Aeons.

 

[Kyle Franklin]

The Trinity doctrine is a hoax. The Trinity is never mentioned in the Bible. The Trinity doctrine is formulated only by some so-called 'Church Fathers' of the apostatised 'Roman (Catholic) church' in the fourth century, when the Lord Jesus Christ is already in Heaven, the true apostles are dead already, and Christ's Church is apostatised and turned into 'Roman church.'

The Father is God but the Lord Jesus isn't. The Lord Jesus is a man ("...the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5 21st Century King James Version) and God is not a man ("God is not a man..." Numbers 23:19 Wycliffe Bible). Therefore, the Lord Jesus can't be God. What about the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit of God can't be God because there's only one God and that is the Father in heaven ("yet to us there is one God, the Father..." 1 Corinthians 8:6 Lexham English Bible). Therefore, if the Holy Spirit is God (too), it will falsify the statement in 1 Corinthians 8:6 but take note that the Sacred Scriptures are sacred and compatible for teaching us what is true ("All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true..." 2 Timothy 3:16 New Living Translation 2007).

Proving that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirits are not Gods will disprove the doctrine of Trinity. It is already proven. If you want to know more, why not try to go the nearest congregation/group worship service (GWS) of the Church of Christ (Iglesia ni Cristo) near your place and attend our worship services? You will be gladly welcomed.

 

[sojourner]

The Trinity doctrine is a hoax. The Trinity is never mentioned in the Bible. The Trinity doctrine is formulated only by some so-called 'Church Fathers' of the apostatised 'Roman (Catholic) church' in the fourth century, when the Lord Jesus Christ is already in Heaven, the true apostles are dead already, and Christ's Church is apostatised and turned into 'Roman church.'

I'm assuming you have proof of all this? Let's see your evidence of the "apostasy."

 

[Kyle Franklin]

I'm assuming you have proof of all this? Let's see your evidence of the "apostasy."

1 Timothy 4:1-3 21st Century King James Version

[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils,
[2] speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,
[3] forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

---

Acts 20:28-30 Doctor George M. Lamsa

[28] Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his own blood.
[29] For I know this, that after I have departed, fierce wolves will attack you, which will not spare the flock.
[30] Also from among yourselves, men shall arise, speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them.

---

Matthew 24:10 and 11 New Century Version

[10] At that time, many will lose their faith, and they will turn against each other and hate each other.
[11] Many false prophets will come and cause many people to believe lies.

 

[outhouse]

I'm assuming you have proof of all this? Let's see your evidence of the "apostasy."

hoax is a bit misworded i agree.


But it is a man made concept, but then again, all religions and worship is

 

[outhouse]

and it probably sounded like this,

"Let's call a counsel... I'll make sure it seems fair, but it's a hollow gesture to further my reactionary agenda",said Constantine.

Constantines move was political, he wanted a unified church. It wasnt a conspiracy theory and no need for explaining or questioning when it comes down from the top.

follow or die were his choices given to the bishops

 

[sojourner]

1 Timothy 4:1-3 21st Century King James Version

[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils,
[2] speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,
[3] forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

---

Acts 20:28-30 Doctor George M. Lamsa

[28] Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his own blood.
[29] For I know this, that after I have departed, fierce wolves will attack you, which will not spare the flock.
[30] Also from among yourselves, men shall arise, speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them.

---

Matthew 24:10 and 11 New Century Version

[10] At that time, many will lose their faith, and they will turn against each other and hate each other.
[11] Many false prophets will come and cause many people to believe lies.

Scriptural eisegesis is a poor substitute for evidence.
But keep trying. This is mildly entertaining.

 

[sojourner]

hoax is a bit misworded i agree.


But it is a man made concept, but then again, all religions and worship is

Yup. Good call.

 

[SageTree]

Constantines move was political, he wanted a unified church. It wasnt a conspiracy theory and no need for explaining or questioning when it comes down from the top.

follow or die were his choices given to the bishops

Isn't that what I said, chap?

 

[Oryonder]

Scriptural eisegesis is a poor substitute for evidence.
But keep trying. This is mildly entertaining.

The Trinity doctrine as we know it today was not something that was believed until 3 centuries after Christ. It was made doctrine because Constantine declared it so and threatened all those who did not accept.

The first mention of the Trinity is Tertullian around 200 AD. Tertullians ideas were rejected by the Church as heresy at that time.

None of the early Church Fathers knew of any Trinity the majority of which were subordinatists believing that Jesus and the Father were separate and that Jesus was subordinate to the Father.

Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Origen, Pope Dionysius were all subordinatists.

This makes complete sense in relation to the vast number of references where Jesus makes reference to "The Father" as something other than himself.

The Gnostics .. who believed the Godhead consisted of numerous Aeons/emanations did not believe in the Trinity either.

The folks who actually knew the diciples or were perhaps a person or two removed did not believe in the Trinity .

Constantine wanted one religion/monotheism and himself at the head of it. Pontifex Maximus. It is rather hard to "speak for God" when there are numerous Gods.
Persia had been unified under Zoroastrianism centuries earlier and Constantine needed get some order established as chaos was ripping the Empire apart.

The Trinity was a convenient way to settle a number of disputes that had been raging within the Church over the nature of Christ so Constantine decreed it doctrine and that is why the Church believes it to this day.

 

[outhouse]

Isn't that what I said, chap?

man!!! you know I have comprehensive disabilities LOL

 

[SageTree]

man!!! you know I have comprehensive disabilities LOL

No hard feelings capt'n!
I just had to pull your leg about it

 

[F0uad]

The Romans had there trinity the Pagans and now Christians... who cares?

 

[sojourner]

The Romans had there trinity the Pagans and now Christians... who cares?

Apparently, you do.

 

[Gharib]

The Romans had there trinity the Pagans and now Christians... who cares?

That's quite right, and actually is no surprise that the Romans had something to do with Jesus being 'divine'. They too had a belief of similar to the Son of God. They took the label from one packaging and stuck it on another.

 

[F0uad]

Apparently, you do.

Yeah i have to admit i am, i want people to go to heaven

That's quite right, and actually is no surprise that the Romans had something to do with Jesus being 'divine'. They too had a belief of similar to the Son of God. They took the label from one packaging and stuck it on another.

They had to because Jesus(p) was becoming ''famous'' more known true the world so they had to to corporate there ''Old-Religion'' inside that of Jesus(p)

''Mixing the two''

 

[Oryonder]

Yeah i have to admit i am, i want people to go to heaven



They had to because Jesus(p) was becoming ''famous'' more known true the world so they had to to corporate there ''Old-Religion'' inside that of Jesus(p)

''Mixing the two''

What is so good about heaven that you would want people to go there ?

 

[sojourner]

Yeah i have to admit i am, i want people to go to heaven

Belief isn't what gets one to heaven. Grace is what gets one to heaven.